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The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition

Discussion in 'Building a new PC' started by ddp, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    If there's a game to take advantage of the CPU, GTA4 is probably it. You should certainly see some good gains there. As far as no integrated chipset goes, I'm not really sure why AMD haven't done it yet. Purely from an objective standpoint, I don't see the disadvantage.
  2. AfterDawn

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  3. FredBun

    FredBun Active member

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  4. Estuansis

    Estuansis Regular member

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    Heh I need to try GTA IV again. Good fun. Should run great!
  5. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Active member

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    That's very interesting Fred! Thanks for the share ;)
  6. Mr-Movies

    Mr-Movies Active member

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    For low volume cooling they should work well but for OC'n you would need several mounted perpendicular to the CPU/NB chips to be adequate. Since they are pizeo they wouldn't draw much electricity but would have a low MTBF probably. At any rate pretty cool wish I was still working with GE testing jet and shaft engines.

    Thanks Fred....
    Stevo
  7. ALAND

    ALAND Regular member

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    Jet and aircraft engines are alot more complicated than this thread LOL
  8. FredBun

    FredBun Active member

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    And your meaning is what if I may ask?
  9. Mr-Movies

    Mr-Movies Active member

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    I've ordered up the rest of the gear to build my new PC using the Fractal Arc Midi case. I missed on a better video card for $9 bucks more by about 6 hours after I bought the 7850, the 7870 went on sale and I couldn't change my order so I missed out on a better card for just a little more.

    Also I spent more on the PSU then I had planned since the RAIDMax wasn't on sale when I finally pulled the trigger. I ended up with a better supply, actually much better but at double the cost. It has a higher efficiency and also has (4) sets of PCI-e power cables so I'm ready to run or use the full 4-way video card feature of the motherboard if I choose.

    Of course I'll have to get different video cards as the one I got won't work on 3or4-way rigs. The total cost of the build is just below $1100 which includes a new keyboard but if you include my new 27" IPS Hi-Res monitor it would be $1500. I was going to get the fastest RAM in the world made but NewEgg was out of G.Skill Trident X memory so I settled for Sniper RAM instead.

    Mid Tower Computer Case $ 49.99
    (x1) ARCTIC F14 Case Fan $ 7.99
    (x2) PWM Case Fans $13.99ea $ 27.98
    Gaming Keyboard $ 31.32
    motherboard $194.99 Amazon (-20 Rebate $174.99)
    AMD FX-8350 FX-Series Eight-Core Processor Black Edition $193.79
    (2 x 8GB) DDR3 SDRAM 1866 $ 83.69
    CPU Cooler H2O $109.99 Newegg (-10 Rebate $99.99)
    Video Card 7850 $199.99 Newegg (-15 Rebate $184.99)
    PSU $119.99 Newegg
    1TB HDD $ 69.99 Newegg

    Hopefully I'll have everything next Wednesday so I can start building the new system. I may go with a 5.25" bay 5 or 6 Fan controller down the road but will wait to see how loud the system is without. One nice thing about getting the H100i is that I can control the cooling speed with the provided software and USB connection, so hopefully the water cooling setup won't need to be load unless I really task the system of course.
  10. harvardguy

    harvardguy Regular member

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    Wow Stevo, nice build. So do I read that correct, 16 gigs ram, 8 core processor. And you say the mobo will support 3 or 4 way cf?

    Over on the gaming thread,

    http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/335/677037

    . . . I just posted about micro-stuttering, (post 8357) which apparently 3-way cf may eliminate, compared to normal 2 way cf. I was not aware of this, but micro-stuttering apparently is a two-way sli or crossfire problem, coming from the frames not being timed out consistently to the monitor, and the 7000 family definitely experiences this effect.

    Here's the chart from that post - it comes from a Tom's hardware article.

    [​IMG]

    The top auburn line, is 3-way cf, which is relatively smooth - you won't be able to feel any micro-stutter in the game - compared to the spiky green line below it, of normal two-way cf, which you may feel, especially at frame rates closer to 60.

    Apparently the eye is sensitive to images hitting it at varying time gaps - even if theoretically the eye should be fooled by the moving images. The effect is quite pronounced close to 30, where I am playing at now, 2560x1600, 30-45 fps on Far Cry 3 ultra settings, but they say, depending on the sensitivity of the viewer, the effect can be felt near 60 fps also.

    So what I'm saying is that as you get into some nice gaming, maybe even this game, you may find that three-way or four-way cf provides a much smoother gaming experience, if the one-year-old Tom's chart data holds for the 7000 family. There is a new wiki article on micro-stuttering - that's where I found out about the Tom's article.

    Since you liked that other Far Cry 3 screenshot, there are some more that I posted over there today. Here's one of them:

    [​IMG]

    Rich
  11. theonejrs

    theonejrs Active member

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    Stevo,

    Seems to be very inefficient though, with the intake and exhaust being the same.

    Russ
  12. Estuansis

    Estuansis Regular member

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    I am very sensitive to framerate fluctuations and microstutter. There are concrete reasons that I demand an average of 60 out of most games. A minimum of 60 is unrealistic for most titles, but average 60 works well enough to keep fluctuations unnoticeable in the majority of situations. Anything below 60 is readily visible to me but only when it dips below the low 50s do fluctuations start to become an annoyance.

    Still the occasional stutter but no heavy fluctuations like that graph shows.

    I find that it's not what framerate it dips to that affects it, it's the percentage by which it fluctuates. I can play a game in the mid 50s just fine with no complaint. As long as the fluctuations aren't large, there isn't a perceivable deviation in smoothness. But say it runs at very high FPS(100+), but fluctuates wildly while still staying within theoretically smooth framerates. Say it ranges from 70-120, which isn't uncommon in older games. In that situation, a steady 55-60 is far better and smoother.

    In the particular instance of that game, you'll notice those cards are well above 60FPS. It's not a matter of more cards, it's a matter of simply turning on Vsync. Monitors only refresh at 60Hz, so they can't go any higher anyway. It's a matter of physics.


    Keep in mind that test shows 6800 series video cards. They have famously buggy Crossfire performance as well. I wonder which driver version they're using.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2013
  13. Mr-Movies

    Mr-Movies Active member

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    With them all moving at the same frequency and stacked properly you could get decent volume from them but they wouldn't be as good as a H2O setup or even a push-pull and increasing their circumference for even more volume wouldn't be possible or effective so you are right they have minimal use really.

    Stevo
  14. theonejrs

    theonejrs Active member

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    I keep meaning to post this. I'm more than pleases with my 3DMark06 score.

    [​IMG]

    Not too shabby for an under $100 GTX-550ti. One of these days, I'll stick the other one in and see how it does in SLI.

    Russ
  15. harvardguy

    harvardguy Regular member

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    Another guy raining on my parade. Well, yeah, Sam is saying there's microstutter with 3 as well. But if 3 gets you above 60 ...... Of course if one 7990 and a 7950 are good, maybe two 7990s would be better.

    There's a monster corsair digital ??? psu over at newegg that may have my name on it, lol.
    Rich
  16. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    Most monitors. It's still my hope that we see 120Hz monitors at larger resolutions than 1920x1200, but I'm doubtful...
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  17. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Active member

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    Wouldn't one need a minimum of 120Fps for a fluid experience? Eesh! LOL!
  18. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    No, 65fps on a 120Hz monitor would still be smoother than 65Hz on a 60fps monitor because the out-of-sync frames would be much closer together.
  19. Estuansis

    Estuansis Regular member

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    LOL that's almost worse than using 2560 x 1600. I can average 60 in most games, even more now that the X6 is showing its muscle. But to have a minimum or even average of 120 is just insane. And at higher resolutions than this? LOL get real! The video hardware simply doesn't exist.

    I'm going to stay here with the sane people on my 1920 x 1200 60Hz display, lol. I just don't have a solid $1-2K to drop on video cards. My whole setup, rig, monitors, speakers and all was in the neighborhood of $2500-3000 all said and done.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
  20. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    In actual fact, it's not the video hardware that's the problem so much, it's the CPUs. You can manage 120Hz in a large number of games with 2 or more top end GPUs at fairly high detail even at 1920x1200, but there are countless current gen games where even today's best CPUs can't get anywhere near an average of 120fps, let alone minimum.
  21. Estuansis

    Estuansis Regular member

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    Notice I have been using AMD for their upgrade path and relative value. My hardware is enough for 60Hz at 1920 x 1200. To throw the requirements for 120Hz and 2560 x 1600 on top of that would make it unrealistic for me to be a PC gamer. Not saying you're suggesting as much, but keep in mind that those levels of fidelity and fluidity are far out of reach of the average gamer.

    Also keep in mind that my system is well above the average gaming PC. Lurk a few other forums and communities and you'll find that mine is an overpowered monster in comparison to most.

    Ofc there will always be true enthusiasts like ourselves that have the budget and planning to make it all happen. I see plenty of systems that would blow mine away. Yours in particular Sam.

    Mine so far has needed the convenient upgrade paths of AMD to stay in step with faster systems. Likewise I used a similar upgrade path for my foray into Socket 775. I could run all 3 of those CPUs(E6600, E6750, Q6600) on the P35-DS3L. Switching to a new platform almost always means extra expense. I could've easily gone Intel for a bit extra over my 1090T, but that means a new motherboard, and not a cheap one damnit.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013

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