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unable to copy Premium Movie Channels on Cable & Dimax Grex

Discussion in 'DVD recorders' started by Drgon, Aug 22, 2007.

  1. Drgon

    Drgon Member

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    Have been unable to copy HBO & other premium movie channels to my PanasonicDMR EH75V. I have been reading discussions re the Dimax Grex. Most of the comments said
    the customer service was poor or never replied. I wrote customer service a long email, describing my problems in details and asking if the Grex could solve them.
    Then ,afraid I wouldn't hear from them, I just went ahead and ordered it since I want to fix this
    recording problem. I was surprised when I heard from them the next morning and they told
    me this should solve my problem and to be sure I asked for the latest version Grex 651 when
    I ordered. I wrote back and said I placed the order already. They wrote back an hour later asking what name the order placed under. I replied. This morning got an email that I got the newest model and it was shipped via air and a tracking #. I did the tracking and the only problem was the site was in Israeli language. I saw a blank and put in the # and it gave today's shipping date. Anyway, their customer service is excellent and I'll let you know how it works when I get it. When I had called my cable company originally, they said they knew nothing re copying blocked on these channels.
     
  2. bergwald

    bergwald Member

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    Drgon,
    Did you receive your Grex and, if so, how is it working for you?
    I want to use it to backup [fair use] my VHS collection to DVD.
    I e-mailed their support dept. [used the support link right from their website] last night to verify if my Philips DVDR 3575, which is not in their list, would work but it was returned as undeliverable [Permanent Failure: 550] so I again e-mailed them this morning and again it was returned. and I had e-mailed their order dept. almost a month ago with a diffenet question with no response but that e-mail wasn't returned. Now I'm wondering if they're still in business.
    Any info you [or anyone else] have would be greatly appreciated.
    Daniel
     
  3. vamsilak

    vamsilak Regular member

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    guys
    i dunno if its works
    vcr/dvd recorder for vhsto dvd
    tv broadcasting to dvd should work

    i heard on vhs can be record w/macrovision

    instead of record on to tape just use a tape as bridge and hit copy on dvd
     
  4. LCSHG

    LCSHG Regular member

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    Drgon

    You indicate Premium channels. Most or All of which are Copy Protected (CP)
    I am interested if the device will work as wanted on ALL analog or digital CP.
    If or when you try, it would be interesting to know as I have tried to get a factual report on them but have never received an answer.
     
  5. JVC

    JVC Active member

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    There is no such thing as [fair use], when copying movies! Fair use only pertains to non-copyright material. In the US, and most other countries, if you have to break or bypass copy protection, to make a copy, that copy is illegal! Period!

    We all do it, to protect our originals, even though it's illegal. I think they sorta understand this, and is why they don't pursue us all. If you're not selling the copies, you shouldn't need to worry though.

    Just wanted to make sure you have no misunderstandings, about what you're doing. DVDs and VHS movies, do not fall under the Fair Use Act.
     
  6. bergwald

    bergwald Member

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    JVC,
    I truly appreciate your comment as I believe it was made in good faith to help users avoid some most unpleasant experiences in the ongoing Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) [and other legal and legislative laws/acts] struggle. I used the term “fair use” in my prior post based upon my conception of what I had read and heard in many venues but your post made me realize that I hadn’t actually looked into it as deeply as I should have since I have been posting that term in an attempt to accomplish my goal of backing up movies in VHS format that I’ve purchased. You may be well versed/read on the subject but I think that many, like myself, may only think they are, which could prove very unfortunate and possibly consequential. Therefore I just went to Wikipedia and looked it up and here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
    I also went to the EFF website for its take on this and here is that link: http://www.eff.org/IP/eff_fair_use_faq.php
    I would recommend that everyone using/about to use the technology or posting about it take a very short amount of time to become more familiar with the term “fair use” and the legislative act that it pertains to.
    What I found was that it is a complex issue and you could very well be correct that technically there is no such thing, but one thing that did stand out in reading from both sites was that ultimately it is determined on a case by case basis. I, and assume many others, may believe that since we’re insignificant we’ll fall “under the radar” screen of the RIAA or MPAA, etc…we’re playing the odds. This is NOT to say that if we [used in the collective sense] had to go to court over this we wouldn’t be found to be within the “fair use” concept [I am NOT making anything to sell to anyone] but I don’t have the tens of thousands of dollars to spend to adjudicate the matter and they are counting on that FACT. My only hope would be assistance from the EFF, ACLU, etc. That is what, after reading about the DMCA, it comes down to; the copyright holders have more than enough money to take those of us [copying for personal use only] to court and know full well that individuals, such as myself, do not and will almost to a person acquiesce to a cease and desist order. And believe me, if I should unfortunately receive one I WOULD!

    If nothing else I hope this discussion will create some interest in this topic area and inspire more people to get involved since the technical side gets the vast majority of interest here, as it should, but be aware of the “800 pound Goliath” lurking.

    Get involved by writing your senators and congressman. I’ve been a C-SPAN junkie for years and I can tell you that they may be [may my butt… ARE] influenced by money but if they‘re not reelected these huge companies have no reason to bribe [sorry…URGE] them and it is WE who elect them and they DO pay attention to calls/letters/e-mails from constituents.

    For those interested, here is an excerpt from EFF’s website [but pay close attention to the phrase “Although the legal basis is not completely settled, many lawyers believe”]:

    What's been recognized as fair use?
    Courts have previously found that a use was fair where the use of the copyrighted work was socially beneficial. In particular, U.S. courts have recognized the following fair uses: criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, research and parodies.
    In addition, in 1984 the Supreme Court held that time-shifting (for example, private, non-commercial home taping of television programs with a VCR to permit later viewing) is fair use. (Sony Corporation of America v. Universal City Studios, 464 U.S. 417 (1984, S.C.)
    Although the legal basis is not completely settled, many lawyers believe that the following (and many other uses) are also fair uses:
    · Space-shifting or format-shifting - that is, taking content you own in one format and putting it into another format, for personal, non-commercial use. For instance, "ripping" an audio CD (that is, making an MP3-format version of an audio CD that you already own) is considered fair use by many lawyers, based on the 1984 Betamax decision and the 1999 Rio MP3 player decision (RIAA v. Diamond Multimedia, 180 F. 3d 1072, 1079, 9th Circ. 1999.)
    · Making a personal back-up copy of content you own - for instance, burning a copy of an audio CD you own.

    And with that I’m going to bed…it’s late. Night all!

    Daniel
     
  7. JVC

    JVC Active member

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    Those pages just keep listing copies of cds, and recording tv shows to vhs or betamax tapes. We all know those are Fair Use practices.

    But, to copy a vhs or betamax tape, to dvd or another tape, is not Fair Use, because you have to break or bypass copy protection in order to do it. Same with copying dvds. It's not making copies that's illegal. It's breaking or bypassing copy protection, that illegal. That's why 321 Studios (makers of DVD X Copy), was put out of business. They tried to use the Fair Use argument, as their defense, and was shot down anyway, because their software beat the copy protection.

    The earliest vcr's didn't have it, but before long, all vcr's had built in Macrovision copy protection, so you couldn't copy your movies on tape. But they could still record tv shows.

    You could legally copy cds, to have one in your car, as well as in your house. They had no copy protection on them, until recently. More and more cds are coming out with copy protection on them, because the music industry wants us to quit copying them. With copy protection on them, it makes them illegal to copy them.

    If you don't think it's illegal to copy a movie, either from dvd or vhs tape, just let the MPAA know that you're copying them, and see what happens. You'll be in court so fast, you won't know what happened....... :eek:) If it's legal, under Fair Use, you shouldn't be scared to let them know, since they wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Right?
     
  8. bergwald

    bergwald Member

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    Your claim that it’s bypassing copy protection that is the crux of the legal issue when copying DVDs, CDs, VHS/Beta tapes is a valid point. Also, I understand the MPAA’s and RIAA’s reasoning [although I’m on the other side of the issue] of pursuing those who are manufacturing equipment that circumvents their efforts of encryption. In their view, these small companies are making money at the MPAA’s and RIAA’s expense in providing the hardware for this purpose. Then there are those providing freeware who are also being pursued and, I assume, NOT making a profit. As I said in my last post, this could possibility be because those providers, just as the “little guy”, don’t have the money to battle with the huge conglomerates and are being intimidated.

    I’ve heard about these manufactures/providers of hardware/software being shutdown but not individuals. Now, I don’t hear every bit of news concerning this issue but I cannot say I’ve heard of any individual anywhere being prosecuted for what most of the public refers to as “fair use” copying. That doesn’t mean this isn’t in the wind or won’t happen, but it just hasn’t thus far. I would assume it wouldn’t be that hard to locate a few/some/many of those who are involved in fair use and bring them to “justice”. This could be because they are in the process and it will happen in the future or they aren’t really sure how the US Supremes [ultimately that’s where it has to go…and should] will adjudicate and don’t want to push it in case it’s an unfavorable ruling and thus opening a new wave of copying frenzy and adverse publicity. One of the things in “our” favor is that the MPAA and RIAA have more to lose than we as individuals.
     
  9. JVC

    JVC Active member

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    LightningUK, creator of DVD Decrypter (one of the most popular softwares for ripping and burning dvds), was shut down. That's why there's not been any updates for it, in a couple of years. He ended up creating IMGBurn. It's basically DVD Decrypter, but without the ripping and copy protection bypassing abilities. It's mainly a burning software now, for ISO files. It will also convert files to ISO format, so it can burn them.

    The guy that created DVD Shrink (forget name), went to work for Nero, and quit updating Shrink. I think he realized he was next, and it was a conflict of interest anyway, with his new job. He ended up creating Recode for Nero.

    So, these were guys making free software, that were being pursued. They were giving us the ability to bypass copy protection. The only money they made on the software, was from donations made by the users. These softwares are still very popular, but need help with the newer movie titles. I still use Shrink, a lot. So far, DVD Decrypter is all I use to burn DL discs. But I haven't burned a DL disc in quite awhile.

    As I said, if you're/we're not selling copies, you/we should be ok. They can't afford to pursue and prosecute, all of us. So, they figure if they stop the software developers, that'll stop everybody else too. I think right now though, they're concentrating more on file sharing sites and people. More people are involved in that, than are making backup copies. The only way they're going to completely stop backups and downloading music, is to quit making movies and records, and they're not going to do that. Afterall, the 100 million dollars they do make, is better than nothing! (just picked a figure out of the air) :eek:)
     
  10. bergwald

    bergwald Member

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