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What is the standad for DVD'S DVD-or DVD+

Discussion in 'DVD±R media' started by rick5446, May 19, 2003.

  1. rick5446

    rick5446 Guest

    I'm wanting to buy a DVD recorder but don't know which to buy.DVD+ or DVD-.I've heard the movie industry follows one of these standards?But which one?Do they make a recorder for both STANDARDS
     
  2. MikeBUK

    MikeBUK Guest

    Best to get a DVD-R recorder as the discs are cheaper and are more compatible with most DVD players but there is no quality difference between the two.
     
  3. awesomejt

    awesomejt Member

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    From a technical standpoint, DVD-R is what is the "official" standard by the DVD Forum. However, certain companies were not satisfied with that standard and formed the DVD+R/W Alliance (HP, Philips, etc). From the standpoint of the forum, DVD-R, DVD-RW, and DVD-RAM are official. I think DVD-RAM has fallen by the wayside, so only niche markets use it now.

    So, with that info, which is better? I don't know. I tend to use DVD+R or DVD+RW for data. I've used DVD-R and DVD+R for movies. Depending on which sales rep you ask will depend on which media actually is more compatible -- I've heard both are "more" compatible, but I have players that prefer different media.

    Best bet is to spend the extra $20 and buy a writer does both -- like Sony 500A, 500AX, etc or the new Pioneer drive that supports all formats. You can't lose doing that. Not only will you be compatible with whichever format utimately "wins", but you will ensure you can burn a disc that is compatible with whatever players you/friends/family/etc have.

    As far as media goes, I've had better luck burning on DVD+R particularly for data, but DVD-R are usually cheaper (not by much). Either way, you can usually buy them in bulk and find them on sale and get a good deal either way. I tend to buy quality name brand media when it goes on sale, I'm not yet ready to trust my 1000's of digital pictures to generic cheap media. Nope, not gonna do it.

    Anyways, I hope that helps. Should be clear as mud. Enjoy.
     
  4. playon

    playon Member

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    Things i think that worth noting....

    this is not a resolved format in the market yet, only time will tell....so buy a all format dvd burner now?...i would say no.

    for a few reasons...
    1.price of the drive is somewhere in the 300 dollar range

    2.media ..what media is going to be around in a few years? you really need to be able to burn 3 or 4 different formats, likely that a few will join dvd-ram and dissapear

    i thought about all this before i bought my toshiba sd-r5002 drive...cost me 171.00 including shipping, records dvd-r dvd-rw as well as cdr cdrw dvd-r speed ia only 2.4 but i know in a year i will be upgrading.

    also, bought 50 pack of 2x dvd-r 4.7gig for 38.00 bucks....thats what helped me make my choice

    anyway thats my 2 cents i guess....g/l m8 :)

     
  5. awesomejt

    awesomejt Member

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    Yeah, I know, I considered the older, cheaper models too like the HP 100i and 200i, but settled on the newest drives which will carry me further before needing replacement. 4X write should hold me over until 16 or 24X comes out and is affordable. Maybe the market will shake out the format war, and the industry will pick a format and stick with it. Even pioneer is making dual-format writers even though it is part of the DVD-Forum and supports DVD-R technology. If you compare apples to apples (ie, newer drives at similar speeds), then the Sony drive is only marginally more expensive -- it has been worth the extra $20 or $30 for the functionality.

    Of course, if you are fine with a slower writer, then you definately can get a bargin buying older models. You do have to be careful, as with anything, the older tech seems to loose support faster. But otherwise, is a great way to get introduced to the DVD world.
     
  6. jpmxp

    jpmxp Member

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    Well I've read all I care to read about DVD-R and DVD+R and I'm not sure if all I got from it was a headache or what? I feel obliged to ask, which came first,,, the chicken or the egg? "-" or "+"? I'm taking a real stab in guessing the "+".
    I have a couple of friends that do a lot of burning... have told me that "-"'s cause them grief on their el cheapo/older players (as opposed to those that do DVD, MP3, etc.)and the "+"'s seem to go all ways! Don't know if this is fluke or not? As far as cost go it looks like the "+" cost more, but can only guess that it may be the result of supply and demand. And if cost were really a concern, no one would deliberately incurr the cost of any true DVD media, since there are a lot of programs that can burn limited VCD data to a regular cd and fake out the players.

    You can always pay less...but you can seldom buy more with less!
     
  7. sapphodi

    sapphodi Member

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    In a DVD recording vs. editing quandary: I have a fairly-new souped up HP Pavilion 63n w/a DVD+R/RW. My housemate is a Mac-geek, and Mac supports DVD-R/RW. We want to split cost of a really good DVD recorder to record off tv, and convert our analog & digital video to DVD. Big question is this: we're trying to figure out whether to get a + or -. If the recorder records in "-", I'm thinking there'd be a format conflict if I try to assembly-edit from the "-" to my "+" HP. I would be doing most of this editing. Any thoughts or suggestions anyone? Helllllp!
     
  8. jpmxp

    jpmxp Member

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    Did the 1st burn using the enclosed DVD+RW. Burn was successful and plays back fine in the computer DVD drive. However, when plunked into the Sony attached to the TV, "we" get great video and no sound. Short of this is all part of the learning curve, it may/may not be time to experiment. I guess I can try a DVD-R or a DVD+R to see what it likes to eat and see what happens. Plus I'll have to scroung up the documentation or download same off the web and see what it has to say. Any suggestions or thoughts on the topic? Looks like determining media might be as hard as determing the correct drive!
     
  9. playon

    playon Member

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    reply to sapphodi...in concern with the dvd- or + when editing.....

    original source you are editing is not in + or - format...it is just video, many formats possible.You will however need to convert to dvd format, the - or + does not matter in the conversion proccess, only becomes a factor after it is burned to the media...in - or + dvd format.

    dvd home players(from what i have read)seem to like the dvd+ format, but i have yet to encounter error's with my dvd-r dvd video i have done on home dvd players.

    So it seems to me that the video editing/conversion is the real factor to get success.Myself i use free programs to do all my editing and there is a ton of support at dvdrhelp.com.

    response to jpmxp...

    concerning cost of dvd-r or dvd+ media...
    really a wash isn't it? 6x storage compacity on dvd vs cdr, also the benefits of dvd for video uses or data backup.

    just for exp. i bought 50 dvd-r for 36 bucks and 100 cdr for 40 bucks, maybe better deals out there but this is my typical costs...so for me the media costs seems to be a wash.

    about the sound issue, probly not correct format for dvd player m8...check out dvdrhelp.com...answers surround you :)

    the dvd+rw "test" disc is a good idea till ya get it figured out, well thought :) rewrite till its right...hehe
     
  10. jpmxp

    jpmxp Member

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    I guess it's safe to say, burn til you learn. I should really get more sleep. It occured to me that if it worked on the pc it should have worked on the entertainment center. It did once I figured out which button to pick. Seems the surroung sound it routed through the vcr. Go figure! I like the explanation regarding formats and God bless mac users. If you've ever seen imovie on a mac, you know that video editing can have a solution nested in one program, rather than several different purchase programs and shareware. On the pc side, what kinds of programs are you using?...with what kind of hardware??...and where are you purchasing dvd blanks at that rate. I'm thinking that I would like to image my system (80g hd)while things are stable without refinancing anything. Your help is appreciated!
     
  11. playon

    playon Member

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    I bought my dvd-r's on ebay m8, same seller always has them up for sale with "buy it now" option. 36.95 for 50 discs (14.95 shipping), but at the right time you can get free shipping with the "buy it now".

    as far as my system specs....

    amd xp2700
    1024mb ddr400
    ati radeon 9700 pro
    40gig western digital wd400jb, 80gig maxtor 6lo8oj4, 8mb cache ata 133 7200 rpm hdd's
    asus a7n8x deluxe mobo
    toshiba sd-r5002 dvd-r drive
    lite-on 40125s cdrw (supports 99 min cdr's)

    free tools i use on my pc for editing, ripping such are simple to use and listed below...

    smartripper
    dvd2avi
    tmpgenc
    ifoedit
    nero

    1.rip dvd's...smartripper

    2.convert the ripped dvd to something favorable for tmpgenc...i use dvd2avi...some settings need to be set, check dvdrhelp.com

    3.use files made by dvd2avi to format desired. (vcd,svcd,dvd...ect) use tmpgenc

    4.(if vcd,svcd)use tmpgenc to simple-demultiplex the created .mpg into a video file .m1v or .m2v, and an audio file .mp2 or mpa --select mpeg tools from file tab in tmpgenc. after completed rename the .mp2 to .mpa (if you have a .mp2)

    5.use ifoedit to create dvd video_ts contents for dvd from the files created by tmpgenc

    6. nero to burn dvd-r, simply choose dvd-video...then add files ifoedit created to the video_ts folder in the dvd layout, then burn.


    also...to actually really edit video i use

    Ulead DVD MovieFactory 2
    Ulead VideoStudio 6

    these progs came with my burner
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2003
  12. jpmxp

    jpmxp Member

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    Many thanks for the Ebay tip. Will check it out after signing out. And I really appreciate the accurate and detailed information regarding programs used in burning. I also can't say enough regarding the detailed steps you added towards the end of your message. Sounds like you got in on all the "burning" at ground zero. It's hard to over-come that much experience quickly, as I'm just getting into it! Keep up the good work! I'm afraid this new hobby of mine will be a very deep whole that sucks in lots of spare change!!!
     
  13. nightfly

    nightfly Member

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    Like Beta and VHS, it seems there will be a continuing battle over which dominates the market. I got worried because I have a '-' burner and didn't see them on the store shelves anymore, until a salesman told me that's because they only carried one brand of '-' (Pioneer) and they always sold out quick. So it seems both types are equally viable on the market right now. I've had different experiences, the dvd-r more generally accepted by older set top boxes but later found it more due to software choices. Disks burned with RecordNowMax seem to play on more machines no matter whether '+' or '-' machines and disks are used. I still have problems with other software such as Nero and of course Roxio's ezcd creator line making video disks compatible with set top dvd players. Bottom line; if you know people who have dvd burners of different types, have them make a disk for you and see what type of players they burn in, keeping a list of what software is used and what burner is used to create the disk. At this time, I am using a Pioneer A04 with RNM 4.5 and haven't found a set top box that won't play the disks.
     
  14. playon

    playon Member

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    Just my thoughts on dvd player compatability...

    Video encoding, its all in the conversion.

    example...

    dvd player that is compatable of vcd's, svcd's as well as dvd will be able to play a wider spectrum of formats...audio as well
    (lets not forget about audio).
    Dvd only players will be much more "picky" when playing a dvd you created, so follow industry standards for video and audio encoding.

    Often i feel like there is to much focus on the "name brands" of dvd players and media disc's, I believe the real answers lay in the encoding for these players.Know your dvd player compatability's and focus your encoding to standards it will play easily.

    *note* I backup my dvd's (my kids taught me that lesson) and keep originals safe.In doing this i have come across dual layer dvd's that contain 9.4 gigs that i need to fit on a 4.7 gig dvd-r.I rip dvd, encode to high quality svcd,create dvd-vob from that file, and burn to dvd....however my dvd player plays svcd or this process would not work.

    So know your conversion m8's and all will be well :)
     
  15. jpmxp

    jpmxp Member

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    After 2 weeks of buring and learning, I'm not sure there is a standard...just a battle for supremacy. While you can buy just about anyone's cheap CD-R and get a good burn on any burner, DVD blank have different rev.levels, burners have all sorts of configurations and oops! Did we forget the great incompatibilty gap between units purchase 2 years ago and those that exits today! Yikes!!!
    While there may be very little difference between +R and -R. There are these other disturbing things. Like -R being about half the price; Like on identical machines (both pc's and burner types ((whether internal or external)) +R and +RW burn times and success are faster than both internal and USB...but don't try -R or -RW on the USB. It's real touchy! The firewire (external in this case) does as well as the internal drive in burning. On -R's typical behavior has the drive light doing a pulse on, pulse off routine, rather than the constant on burn light behavior of + disc's. And can we say "software shortfall" What method is being used to duplicate or archive the original DVD. Programs like DVDXCOPY do pretty well considering the choas of the enviroment. On +R burns Express does well, but don't be too disappointed with its -R behavior...unless you like coasters a lot. Best to test using RW's. Not to mention that vendors are starting to cluster around each other and recommending only certain vendor disk varieties and only certain revision levels for certification. What bilge! I went to a local Best Buy to look at burners and can you imagine my surprise to see what kind of blank is contained in the box?!? It was an RW type and what a shock (not) to see 4 out of 5 drives with a...you guessed it a +. Hmmm...vhs or betamax...+ or -???
     
  16. shadjack

    shadjack Member

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    Well I'm new... But I bought the new Sony DRU-510a at Circut City of all places, and got thier preformance guarantee for an additional 50 bucks.... mentality was WHEN the newer faster drives come out over the next 4 years I can take back in my old drive, gripe that it's not as fast as I _think_ it used to run... and get the newest on the market priced what I got this one for now... all It'll cost me in the end will be 50 bucks for the preformance guarantee cost..

    Also as to the players... I broke down rather than having to guess every time which of my settop players could read them and got a JVC progressive scan and a snoy dvd player new ... They both play dvd-+r(w) in addition to svcd, mp3 etc...
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2003

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