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Why does my Denon 2805 think my speakers are "small"

Discussion in 'Receivers and amplifiers' started by ghost640, Feb 16, 2005.

  1. ghost640

    ghost640 Member

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    Hi all,

    I just received my Monitor Silver Center Channel speaker (woohoo) and am going through Denon's Auto Setup routine. The receiver wants to set all my speakers to "Small". At $500 each (and the fact that they have a fine frequency response), I think they should be Large.

    I have stepped my subwoofer X-over from 120 to 80 to 40. Even at 40, the speakers are set to Small.

    Any opinions from you knowedgeable types on why this is? I can override this, but it's kind of a matter of principal now...

    Thanks!

    Current setup
    Monitor Audio SLCR and SFX
    Fronts: B&O S-45s
    Sub: Outlaw LFM-1
    Rear surrounds: dinky computer speakers

     
  2. WesleyHes

    WesleyHes Member

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    Most speakers are considered small. Truely 'large' full-range speakers can handle frequences down to 20Hz and usually but not always have their own built-in powered subwoofer to boot. Imagine having 5 or 7 of those monsters surrounding you. Large rooms only apply here.

    So, with most receivers, you set speakers to small unless they can handle truely deep bass. I, like most mid and low range system users have a powered subwoofer to handle both the LFE (low frequency effects) channel and the deep bass from all speakers. With true full-range speakers, the sub could be dedicated to just the LFE only. That kind of system would be awesome but more expensive. I'd like to have a 'large' speaker system but I don't have the budget or room.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2005
  3. ghost640

    ghost640 Member

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    Thanks Wesley, great explanation! I guess my speakers were smaller than I thought, none of them reach as far down as 20.

    I guess I'll experiment with cutoffs between 40 and 80 - I'm tempted to go toward the low end to put my small speakers to work.

    I have a set of B&O "Penta" towers for my audio system (circa 1990), they stand about 65" and have dedicated amps in their bases. I guess they're large, and I know I wouldn't more than 2 of these around!
     
  4. thor999

    thor999 Regular member

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    yes, very nice setup indeed. I'm currently running a denon avr-3805 to 2 polk towers (4 mids, 1 tweet each), polk powered 12" sub, 2 pairs of theater research towers (two mids, 1 tweet, and 1 10" powered sub each) and a monster ass polk center (two eights) I could never get LARGE setting for any seperates, it truly must be a speaker with a powered sub, I strongly recommend theater research for this endeavor, very economical, and when you consider the application, extremely unnecessary, but when I play call of duty, I like to really feel like i'm there, ya know? that 3805 can reproduce rear signals through the "surround back" mode, giving you a total of 6 surround speakers, along with two fronts, of course.
     
  5. ghost640

    ghost640 Member

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    Thanks Thor, you've got an awesome setup yourself!

    I set my speakers to small and the cutoff at 80, disabled my subwoofers X-over. We watched I-Robot last night in DTS mode - from an audio perspective it was awesome - they really use the surrounds, lots of detail. Wasn't a bad flick either...
     
  6. Razz1234

    Razz1234 Guest

    hi guys,

    Just wanted to toss in my thoughts too.

    I have Paradigm Reference speakers all around and a Denon 3805. My auto set-up sets all my speakers to "Large" I do know that the Paradigm Reference line of speakers is bass heavy and think that is what it comes down to.

    Speakers can be "rated" to go down to say 45 or 55 Hz or so but that doesn't mean they actually perform that well outside of a lab. The Denon "auto setup" listens to what the speakers are actually putting out. And if there is not enough lower frequency at an equal decible level then the Denon will set them at "small" so the sub will fill in the lack of Low frequency. It doesn't mean that your speakers are not putting out low frequency, it just means that then Denon is not hearing enough of the low frequency from your speakers and wants you use the sub instead.

    Ghost,
    I don't even know of any main speakers that are rated down to 20Hz. My Paradigm 15 inch Servo Sub is rated down to 14Hz and I think that is AMAZING! It should be considering it costs $1,500 and all it does is produce LFE. Having speakers rated down to 20Hz is pretty hard to come by, and yes i agree with wesley... they would have to be "powered Monsters" all around you.

    My surrounds are the Reference ADP and are rated at only 58Hz. The Denon hears and registers them as "large" as well as my center (39Hz) and of course my fronts (28Hz). That is because they all are producing enough LFE below the 80Hz level and the Denon can hear and register it. So I set my cross-over to 60.

    I wouldn't recommend setting the crossover lower than 80Hz unless your speakers are registering with your reciever as "large".


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2005
  7. sdifox

    sdifox Regular member

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    Problem with setting all your speakers to large is mainly amplification. Theoretically all speakers can be driven full range (as in set to large) but if your speaker cannot produce 40Hz effectively (ie, not enough surface area), it would require more power to try to produce it. So the moral of the story, keep it as small (unless you got a built in active sub in each channel) and be happy.
     
  8. thor999

    thor999 Regular member

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    those theater research are truly not bad speakers, just don't pay more than 100.00 U.S. each, its kind of a scam really, msrp on the box is 1999.00! They truly do show up as large in the Denon speaker setup. I feel the cabinet is fine, the sub ok, the amp and mid rabge speakers are true HORSESHIT but fun on a surround system (use for rear and sides only)
     

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