Basically I wonder if anyone might have the answer to my problem? Here goes:- (Canopus, Pioneer and a host of other folk seem not to know how to settle this). I run video company in the UK. I just bought a Pioneer dvr 5100 HS DVD recorder/player. set it up and the following occurs:- The 5100 has dv in/out. If I plug my Sony DSR 11 into the 5100 I can get dv in/out. No problems. If I plug my RexRT Pro NLE edit system breakout box direct to the Pioneer 5100 I get a 'Can't record' error stating 'no dv input signal'. Problem! Yet when I then connect the ReXRT Pro firewire back into the DSR 11 vtr - it works fine. The pioneer handbook states that the dv signal input must be 'DVC-SD' only. Now the relevance - I wonder if the dv signal output by RexRT Pro has some information in it that the Pioneer does not like or if there is something 'missing' in the dv signal from my RexRT Pro edit system. If the Sony DVBK-1 output signal from the RexRT pro system is 'lacking' - can it be altered or adjusted/converted or am I doomed to sending the Pioneer DVD recorder back? Summary - the Pioneer 5100 HS DVD recorder does everything it says in the manual EXCEPT it refuses the dv signal from my edit system and ONLY the edit system. So far all my best contacts have no idea what it is, except to say that it looks like Pioneer and Panasonic and probably others have fallen into line by the big Hollywood moguls and made their machines deliberately not take the dv input from anything other than a camcorder or similar vtr. I'd love someone to tell me how I can get the dv signal to be recognised by the Pioneer which otherwise is a great machine. Surely there must be a way to normalise or standardise the signal from my Canopus RexRT Pro so that it satifies this finicky Pioneer?? Come on - who's the 'man' out there?? cheers Chris ps couple of folk have said it may be a device control issue or else a DMR issue.
High Studioman, I own the 5100H since a few days. Same problem occured with my PC´s. I cut my family videos with Pinnacle Studio 8. Connection from PC to 5100 via Firewire fails - normally. Question to Pioneer is underway to solve this generally. I bought this expensive thing explicite for encoding the videos cut on PC real-time on the machine. In the meantime I learned the following: Connect both, 5100 and Your camcorder (mine is a Sony D8), to PC via two of the plugins of [bold]one[/bold] firewire-card (I have one with three plugins driven by TexInstr-drivers, one for notebook-cardbus driven by NEC-drivers). At first the signal of the PC (Studio 8 has to send a project to "tape") gets into the 5100 - hurray. But my camcorder recognizes the firewire cable too and shows "DV-In" on screen. Thus he will be switched by the 5100 to play when 5100 is told to record and - on 5100 the signal from camcorder comes in. Thats not what we intend. I strolled around a little in the camcorders menu and - indeed, when I switched off the IR-"Commander"-item in the camcorder´s menu - the camcorder stopped sending video/audio signal to DV-OUT anymore... Strange but...true. This way I encoded my first own-cut family video yesterday, and the 5100 makes very, very fine quality from that stuff. In case this does not help You (I played around with the devices, drivers etc. and got this "setup" by chance), try to combine Your workplace stuff in similar way... Hope this hint will give a direction to solve the problem for thew first at Yours. Think You are right. Electronically everything the customer wishes does work indeed, but seems to be refused by strange software regulatories. To Pioneer: I never copied any video film from VHS or DVD ever. Why should I - I can pay for it as for Your machines. The schoolboys in our small town do copy - with DiVX. Okay folks, are there more or better solutions to find? Mine is casual and a little uncomfortable, who knows the [bold]one and only[/bold] switch? Keep on moving.
Thanks for that BUT............ Not following you entirely. I have a Sony DSR11 VTR - one dv in/out slot Sony PD150 c/corder - one dv in/out slot RexRT Pro edit system - one dv in/out slot - well 2 actually but you can only select one at a time via software settings in Premiere or RexEdit. Pioneer 5100 - one dv in/out slot. Discuss cheers Chris
High Chris, in short - I have no professional equipment. Studio 8 with "normal" firewire-cards seems to be able to give signals out on every of the slots available. Our notebook has further a lonesome built-in firewire slot too. The same time connection f.e. of the 5100 to this slot and the camcorder to a slot on the PCMCIA-Firewire-card gave no result. Works if both are connected same time with two of the three slots of the fw-card - as on my desktop when connected to a taiwan-built PCI-fw-card. Seems that these cards/controllers are able to "combine" the video signal from PC software with steering signals/messages from camcorder. I dont know which role "Studio 8" plays in this matter (I switched the "camcorder starts automatically when film goes to tape"-function off). I do not have any knowledge what a RexRT is nor what "DVC-SD" or similiar formats mean. Of course best would be when cutting software would be able to emulate the messages of a camcorder, so all we need would be one fw-slot and basta. Till that day, might it be possible for You to try out a firewire-card as I suppose and look after / give notice about results? Another problem with 5100 is that it recognizes any connection to firewire only when fw-cable is plugged-in after 5100 has been turned on. When I turn on the 5100 with already plugged-in fw-cable then the connection will not be recognized. Failure or feature? Nasty. Greetings to You Ralf
Hello Chris, to set "Commander"-item in the Sony D8-Camcorders menu on or off does not matter at all - learned it yesterday, sorry. Important is, that the camcorder is stopped before switching Pinn-Studio8 to play the film. Then the signal from Studio8 gets into the 5100 although the camcorder plays too. Unfortunally one needs a cassette inside the camcorder, so he runs and wears out all the time you record on the 5100. Pioneer write that the 5100 recognizes only camcorders. I hope, any cutting software under WinXP may emulate a camcorder one day... Hello Pinnacle. Greetings Yours Ralf
Hi Ive been experiencing the same problems with the DVR 5100 - returning one player being unaware that the player has the DV issues. Ive been using the Pioneer DVR7000 primarily just for output from DV socket to Firewire card and have had nothing but success. Got this new player DVR 5100 for the HDD feature & getting only blank screen on my capture programme on my PC. Connecting the dv to dv on both players - the signal from the 5100 comes though fine. After much too & fro from Pionner engineers (who have no idea and only one person in their office who knows anything about these players - who was off sick LOL) - the one in the know called me this morning - telling me the 5100 is not compatible with dv connection to a PC and is only meant for connection with camcorder or another dvd recorder & that my successful connection with the DVR7000 was just by fluke chance (basically that I should be grateful I even got that far). So they were unwilling to help in the slightest. Lots of hours scouring the net for info later - I came across a solution: Canopus ADVC 100. Connecting the s-video output (back of DVR5100) to this device creates a DV signal in or out, Has firewire connections, locked audio sync etc etc. Spoke to Canopus Tech support & advises no loss will happen (will work with any device with analogue/DV outputs & inputs) Have just ordered mine - price bit steep at £233 inc VAT - bit pricey but only solution I can see to having footage stuck on the HDD and not being able to transfer - reviews of this box are stunning almost 10/10 from 150 reviews www.canopus.com
Do please let me know how it goes. I have even looked at the Pioneer DVD-V7300D Industrial DVD recorder - very expensive. Maybe the Canopus solution will work - we'll see. Don'thold your breath. I just tried the 5100 with my new Sony Vaio GRT716S and it still wouldn't read the signal properly. It knew a device was connected. Thought it was an AVC device (close!) but then refused to send or receive. I plugged my Sony DSR 11 into the Sony Vaio and bingo no problem. The Pioneer must have been designed on a late Friday afternoon by the bloke at Pioneer who was NOT on sick - pity...................... anyway I'd love to hear how the ADVC 100 unit works (or not) cheers Chris
Hi Chris Check the feedack/reviews on the Canopus on this site. http://www.dvdrhelp.com/capturecards.php?CaptureCardRead=Canopus ADVC-100&Search=Search#comments Im due delivery of the unit tomorrow so I'll let you know how it goes - it looks hopefull as the box creates it's own DV signal from the analogue source (s-video etc & I know these work for definate) so it wont be relying on the 5100's DV signal conversion. As a side note - did you know that all the 5100 consists of is a standard hard drive & a pioneer DVR A06 - was shocked!! someone opened their's on delivery to find this!! pics are on www.dvdrhelp.com somewhere
Two things:- 1. Are you sure that S-VHS can be converted to digital WITHOUT loss ? Not so sure. 2. If the 5100 is still looking for a device control signal from the firewire - what makes you think that the ADVC converter will supply a signal that complies with consumer camcorder DVC-SD (standrad definition Consumer dv. ? I'll be on the edge of my pillow until you get back to me. Chris
I can only really comment on what ive been told when I spoke to Canopus Tech by phone that the Svideo signal will show no visible loss, he wasnt trying to hard sell either even advised me on a cheaper one-way only model .I have the DVR 7000 (previous model to 5100) and the DV carries no problems and still does, of which I cant understand the difference. Have to say the only time Ive ever experienced loss through Svideo is when Im converting from NTSC to PAL through a Digital converter. Let's see I'll get it tommorow hopefully & I'll give it a good testing throughout the day & post what I have found - either another big money loss or possibly a success !!!!! keep your fingers crossed for me LOL
Hello mijacmad, high Chris, today I have a little more knowledge about few video-standards as "DVD-SC", and looked after the capabilities of Canopus hardware. As far as I understand You convert S-VHS via the ADVC100 and get both video/audio-output and proper device control signal for 5100 combined on the card´s DV-Out? If so, my hope is that other companies make efforts on this funny signal combining too - implemented in little less expensive hard- or software. Im my case, seems that this combining of video and device control signal only happens with my firewire-cards when I work with Studio8 Rev. 10 on my PC´s. No efforts at this time with Ulead Media Studio7 Trial (which has a menu for supporting different drivers / camcorders), Panasonic MotionDV (Vers. unknown/OEM) nor AIST 4.5. I will continue trying out. I read about Panasonic. They offer Motion DV 4.7 to transfer via firewire to their HDD-DVD-recorders. My point is that this software is translated to german in a very poor manner so that I was not able to recognize its efficiency till now. If interested, I will report from time to time when perhaps efforts took place... Greetings Yours Ralf PS: Pio: "We stand 150% on law´s side". Someone helpful at Pio supposes the use of "elder mainboards with Win 98". Hm. (I convert S-VHS to DV with my Sony D8-camcorder, are those specialized PC-devices of so much better quality?)
Ehm, and what may happen if one captures the video from ADVC 100 to a cutting software and wants to give it out via DV to Pio?
Ok good news - received the Canopus ADVC100 this morning first thing!!! a good start. So far I have tried output from 5100 to Firewire via the ADVC100 - Connecting the back svideo on 5100 & phone lead to the front of ADVC100 & the 4pin DV in/out connection on front of ADVC100 to 6pin DV to my Firewire connection at back of my PC - turn power on and it instantly recognised the device & installed & recquested programme Pinnacle studio 8 to be initialised to use with the device it had found - open Studio go to capture - and there it is [bold]pure picture[/bold] - no visible loss. Captured 10mins of footage to start - no dropped frames - all audio in sync & amazing picture quality!!!! Also tried Ulead DVD Workshop capture feature & works exactly the same - infact with this ADVC100 box it seems to pick up the signal even quicker than I have ever experienced. I bought mine from http://www.smartdv.co.uk £240.00 inc VAT & Delivery - ordered Weds Afternoon & received first thing this morning (Thurs)!!
Well maybe it's me - but, did anyone actually read my original thread?? The dv output FROM my 5100 has never been in doubt - it has always worked - signal recognised by DSR 11 and Sony PD150 - no problem. The trouble is and always has been the 5100 does not read the incoming dv signal from my Canops RexRT Pro system - which is the reason I bought it in the first place. I just didn't see anything in the above post that tells me the Pioneer 5100 can read a dv signal IN from a Canopus edit board via firewaire. Any offers? or did I miss something in my hastes?? thanks Chris
The canopus box works both ways though so u could connect direct from your camcorder to the box and then into the dv or svideo input on 5100 (svideo being the best solution which has no loss & know that works)
This is the plot. My Pioneer DVR 5100 HS - does not read my dv signal from my Canopus RexRT Pro. The Pioneer 5100 HS - accepts S-VHS and composite signal. I am not satidfied with that - I want the dv IN to work. The Pioneer 5100 HS - accepts the dv signal from my camcorder. It also accepts the dv signal from my Sony DSR 11 VTR. Therefore I need a way for the dv signal from my RexRT Pro to be acceptable to the Pioneer. I had thought the S-VHS out or the Component output from the RexRT board could go through a device like the ADVC and get converted to dv - which MAY be recognised by the Pioneer?? That's the problem I have - dv signal IN to Pioneer from RexRT Pro - just not recognised by the 5100. Should add - my Sony Vaio GRT716S - also works with everything EXCEPT the Pioneer. thanks Chris
I understand now - but cannot answer as Im trying to totally avoid the DV in/out on the pioneer now as it's obviously as you say a Friday afternoon job - totalyy unthought and incompatible. I'll keep trying diffrent connections - i need to try output from PC - any suggestions of a software on PC to output footage through DV?
Do you have a capture card in your pc with a firewire output? If not then I suggest a Canopus Raptor. If yes, then your edit software will usually allow your timeline signal to output via firewire. Am I close? The only true test of the ADVC is whether it's dv output is recognised by the Pioneer 5100 HS cheers Chris ps where are you based? I'm Wales , UK
Hello Chris, mijacmad, Kopf hoch. The Sony DSR-11 has two modes: DV and DV-Cam. Yours is on DV-Cam-Mode I guess - so 5100 does what Pio allows: recognizes it as Camcorder. Switched to DV the DSR-11 might not be recognized: is this right? So what I can assure You again (there´s a huge 5100-faq-forum on dvdboard.de which gives vague hints in this direction too) is (to mijacmad too) that Studio8 sends DV from PC to Firewire slot when switched to step3 "make movie", then "make a tape" (not "make AVI"). This signal on slot 1 of the firewire card one can combine in a PC´s firewire card unter TI or NEC or "pure" OHCI-driver with the camcorders device control signal on slot 2 of the same firewire card. The signal can not be combined from slots which are physically situated on two fw-cards (or fw-controllers) of the same PC. Camcorder must have a writable cassette inside and switched to VTR mode (we greenshorns say "play"). How to give priority to DV signal from PC over the camcorders signal seems to be mystic but happens. Again: this is a very uncomfortable but reproducable way to work. As far as I understand You, Chris (I read Your first post again) You work/edit entirely with software related to the RexRT as a dedicated editing system?. Have You tried to send DV from the Rex-Slot and from Your DSR-11 in DV-Cam-Mode into the two first slots of a specific fw-card in anyones PC and from the third slot of this fw-card out to the 5100? I guess as soon as the fw-card will be initialized by the drivers (try evtl. different ones) I guess this would work too if DSR-11 reacts like my Sony-Camcorder. Priority: screw around. Besides: this combination will by far look wilder than mine... Happy combining Yours Ralf
If anyone is thinking of asking Smartdv a question about the 5100 - don't bother - this is what I just got back from them:- "Hi sorry no ideas on how to fix. Thank You" Steve Savva Smart DV 13 Park Crescent Finchley, London N3 2NL TEL: 020 83468023 steve@smartdv.co.uk www.smartdv.co.uk
