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DVD Rebuilder with CCE Basic Vs. DVD Shrink

Discussion in 'DVD Shrink forum' started by neilm247, Jun 7, 2004.

  1. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Think of me when you have the good brew there soph.

    Doc, it doesn't really matter that much to me about the section. We do know where to find all the Shrinkites now. It may work out, time will tell. I will keep my reservations however. People get caught up in the moment and forget to look to the future. Are we allowed to say Shrink outside the hallowed halls now?
     
  2. Doc409

    Doc409 Active member

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    Let's try. PM.
     
  3. bigorange

    bigorange Active member

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    You two take a chill pill, everything is gonna be fine. You agreed to begin with, now ya got all this crap runnin' around in your head. The shrinkies will still be where they all hang out, they ain't gonna come runnin' to AD, only people who wish to back up and happen to want to use shrink to do it. It is, after all, a pretty good proggy(as Pete likes to say) now.

    I got some little white pills iffin' ya want one. heh heh

    BTW, I'm outta here, be back in 10 days, hold down the fort. I might join ole sophocles in a brewski myself.
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][​IMG] [bold]GO VOLS![/bold]..Dell Media4600, XP,Pentium 4 @2.80GHz/800Mz,512MB,280HDw/8MB,17" flat panel,AIO-A920,8xDVD-ROM,integrated 5.1 audio, HPdc4000,PlextorPX-708UF,LiteOn SOHW 832S dual layer[/small]
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2004
  4. Doc409

    Doc409 Active member

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    The voice of reason amidst the clouds of controversy. :) .Thx. My kids do accuse me of having "senior moments" now and again.

    Have a great 10 days!!! If you get a chance, drop a line?
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2004
  5. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Brewski and little white pills. What a happy little fellow we'll be. ;) Just kidding, couldn't resist the temptation. I'm out or I'd join you. Dry county and 20 miles to the water hole. BTW, have a good holiday. Get with me when you get back. Take the laptop and you can sneak away at night and drop an email. I know you have to have your little net fix occasionally.

    Don't need a chill pill, what is done is done. Part of the reason for a new section was the idea of discussing the merit of improvements at higher compression and the slight difference in controls with the DVD Shrink 3.2. You can't give instructions now without knowing which version you're dealing with. What happened was that everything Shrink, old and new got lumped together. Sort of defeated the purpose in my book. [bold]The section is there, so there is nothing really to say about it.[/bold] You are acting as though I was staunchly opposed to the idea. Note earlier that I said I was ambivalent on the matter. So, I wasn't truly for or against the idea. My reservations were about how the section would be set up. As it is, its a combined open forum on the subject of Shrink, old and new.

    My new Shrink is better than your old Shrink... ;)
     
  6. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    And then the silence.
     
  7. wensteph

    wensteph Member

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    I'm having a problem with my first try at Rebuilder and CCE Basic. I've followed the instructions in the guide. I'm running Rebuilder in the one click mode and my problem is that I get an Encode Basic error message that "Frame size 1248x56 is not supported. Supported frame size is up to 720x576".

    I've tried various forum searches to see if anyone has had the same problem and didn't see anything relevant so I'm asking for help.

    Thanks.
     
  8. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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  9. 64026402

    64026402 Active member

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    Hello Wensteph,

    I don't specifically recognize the problem so going through the setup in the rebuilder guide is a very good idea.
    I took many trips through the guide before I got my setup to act the way I wanted.
    It is a pretty easy backup once your setup is complete.
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]Donald

    [​IMG][/small]
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2004
  10. vurbal

    vurbal Administrator Staff Member

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    @wensteph: It sounds like you have some sort of AviSynth error. The strange resolution is due to it being an error message instead of the actual video. Open one of the AVS files in a media player and you can see what the error is.
     
  11. wensteph

    wensteph Member

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    Thanks all. I ran back through the guide and I had neglected to check the setup box to add the dll to the AVS file.

    Using this forum has been an enjoyable journey. I started using X Copy Express, but lost the ripping function when I did a clean install on a larger hard drive. After coming here I've regained full functionality on Express and discovered wonderful programs such as Decrypter, Shrink, DVD2One and now Rebuilder and CCE Basic. More importantly my knowledge of backing up a DVD has expanded a thousand fold. Thanks are in order for much more than just helping me with this problem.
     
  12. TenChars2

    TenChars2 Member

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    New to Rebuilder? Yes, it has the best looking output out there when used with CCE for the compression routines. I use DVD Shrink to pull the stuff out and get just the movie and extras that I want and then use Rebuilder (v.56) to compress it. Pixelation is gone and it doesn't jitter on high compression movies like I get in Shrink.

    Problems? I had some. You need to send script commands from rebuilder to CCE SP trial. The trial version of CCE says, "not in this version", or something like that if you try it. The fix is to use EclCCE as an intermediate program. You need to tell Rebuilder in the options to link to EclCCE.exe >not< to CCE.exe. After I did that, it worked like a charm. Then I set it to 5 pass (it's gorgeous but a little slow, but then add the time it actually takes shrink to do one and it's not that big of a difference). I prefer the quality, not the speed. Then I set it to one click and do it while I sleep at night. I don't care about speed when I'm asleep... If you're really into it, you can batch a bunch together, but I keep my hard drive full, so that's not an option ;-)

    Read the guide at http://www.doom9.org/mpg/dvdrb.htm
    It worked fine for me other than I skipped over the part that said I should set my CCE program location in the options to EclCCE.exe instead of CCE.exe

    I'm doing a 64% reduction now using 6 pass. It did it while I slept and looks great. Dont' try this with a transcoder type program. They just remove stuff rather than reimage the frames. CCE totally kicks on high compression but it takes time to do all the passes. I started at one pass and even that looked good. That is my preferred method when I want speed and quality together.

    Good luck!
     
  13. Doc409

    Doc409 Active member

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    @ TenChars2 or anyone....

    I've done about 20 backups now with DVD-RB/CCE (Basic) in 2 pass mode. I had a rough start, but with that behind me, I'm wanting to try new things now. I'm wondering about a couple of things?

    1. How much would be gained by going from 2 pass to 5 pass, or more. I don't have a large screen now, but I suspect I will sometime in the future. I would like to know that what I am doing now will also look good then, and

    2. I've also heard about doing more than one job at a time. Are these set up to run concurrently, or is there a way to stack them to run consecutively? Thanks.


     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2004
  14. vurbal

    vurbal Administrator Staff Member

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    The benefits of more passes are debatable. Some will tell you that on high compression it makes a difference. Some believe that it always makes a difference, and some think it never does. Since I've never seen actual comparisons, and certainly never done them myself, take this with a grain or 2 of salt.

    In general, the difference with more passes is that CCE has more chances to correct any problems with the way the bits are distributed. The other side to this argument is that because of the great job CCE does on the initial (VAF file) pass, any more than 1 additional pass may not help anyway. The best description I've seen (and keep in mind I can't verify that this is true) is that the VAF pass gives you 99% of the quality CCE could conceivably give you, the second pass 99.9%, the third 99.99%, etc,... If this is indeed true, I don't see enough benefit in any more than 1 pass after the VAF pass to worry about it.

    The other thing you introduce with DVD-RB is that unlike conventional CCE methods, where an entire movie is encoded as one file, the bits are only being distributed across a small section of the total video. Sometimes this is as little as 100 frames or less. The way I see it, the fewer frames are being encoded, the less benefit there is, even on a theoretical level, to additional passes. Personally I don't think there should be any differences between the 2 passes that Basic does and using SP to do 5 passes, but that's based on reasoning and not testing since I haven't had a copy of SP to use since before DVD-RB was available.

    On the batch processing, there are 2 different ways I know of to do it. You can either use DVD-RB's batch mode, which I'm not familiar with because I've never used it, or you could do what I do and use RBFarm to run a batch of jobs on multiple PCs. In either case, the jobs have to be run consecutively since you can't have more than one instance of CCE at a time.
     
  15. TenChars2

    TenChars2 Member

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    Ya, consecutively is how it works. I used divx compression to make some avi's and I was not happy when I smoothed it out and the detail tended to get lost in the compression. It looked good but I just couldn't see that sharp edge. I would say, every person that looks at it wants a little bit something different. I first switched when I backed up a Monte Walsh or some other cowboy movie. It started with a horse going across a prairie and dvdshrink just wasted that picture, it was so bad. I used one pass cce and it looked beautiful. So, until you find you're unhappy with a transcoder like dvdshrink, I'd be happy with the speed you can backup and stick with it. Personally, I set it to convert while I'm asleep and then burn it in 15 minutes to 4x media in the morning. I'm happy with 2 pass minimum. DVDRebuilder uses one of the passes to create the file and the second pass goes through it to compress it, so as I see it, you set it to one more than the number of passes you want for compression. I agree, 6 passes is total overkill but whatever I can get in about 7 hours of sleep, I shoot for. Usually a setting of 5 gets it done in 6 hours for a 5.5 gig image I'm compressing down. I can't tell the difference from my original (well, not unless I know what to look for). I think learning about how to do it was what I enjoyed the most. What's next after this? I have a dual-layer burner but I can't find dual-layer media...

     
  16. vurbal

    vurbal Administrator Staff Member

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    Ahh okay. I can see doing the additional passes in that case.
     
  17. Doc409

    Doc409 Active member

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    Thanks. 99.99% sounds good the first time.

    Also, I had not noticed the "Batch Processing" feature on the File pull-down. I'll have a chance to try it over the weekend, and will let you know how it goes.
     
  18. jdobbs

    jdobbs Regular member

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    I pretty much do all my encoding with the Batch mode -- that way you can do 3-4 movies overnight. Just make your settings and save as a project, then load the project files in batch mode. Be careful, though, a common mistake is to forget and leave the output directory the same for all encodes -- only the last one will exist in the morning (I speak from experience).
     
  19. jdobbs

    jdobbs Regular member

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    The general rule of thumb for number of passes is -- use 2. If you really worry about it and just want to feel better, change it to 3. If you have lots of time on your hands and are excessive compulsive, make if 4. But the CCE manual makes it clear that anything over 4 is pretty much a waste of time.

    Two pass VBR encoding is clearly the industry standard... in fact about all other encoders only offer 2 passes. After the first pass you have all the information necessary to properly distribute the bits based upon demand to reach a fixed quality level at a predefined average bitrate.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2004

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