Hello everyone, first post goes here... Please bear with me, I usually end up with pretty long introductions... I´m in process of building a new computer from the scratch. The first job I would like to start with the new machine is to store all my 1000+ CDs in lossless format, in order to be able to store the original CDs in somewhere safe and to make browsing through the catalog a bit easier. Processing that kind of number of CDs will take time, of course, but quality is the most important factor. While extracting the audio, it would be nice to be able to use the computer for other tasks, without affecting the quality of the DAE. Bit-perfect is the only acceptable result, but gaming while DAEing would be nice... I think I still should categorise myself as a die-hard SCSI-fan, largely because my previous encounters with ATAPI-devices have been somewhat disapointing (although the experiences date back a couple of years.) Especially, I used to hate the way the computer stalls while inserting a new CD, and the CPU-meter would indicate that ATAPI really wasn't usable for true, stable multitasking. Therefore, I had already decided that I would purchase a Plextor PleXWriter 40/12/40S -drive and some good Ultra-SCSI adapter. Then I read the following review and got worried (the URL points to the most important benchmark, DAE): http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?id=244&pagenumber=3 The review compares the SCSI- and ATAPI-version of the Plextor drive, and I was stunned to read that the CPU-usage of the SCSI-version is considerably higher and interface burst rate lower than those of the ATAPI-version. Referring to the review, I have a couple of questions: 1) Could the worse CPU-usage of the SCSI-drive be explained by for example by the SCSI-adapter used (Tekram DC-390U3W) or have ATAPI-interfaces really improved so much that SCSI takes more CPU-cycles? 2) Regardless of CPU-usage, what is your experience of SCSI vs. ATAPI in practical terms, is working with SCSI still more fluent? Especially, do modern computer still get "paralyzed" when inserting CDs etc? 3) My sole use for this particular CD-RW-drive will be DAE, also from scratched CDs (I really haven´t stored them they way they deserve) Writing speed or quality is not important, therefore. Also, I think I can bear the cost related to the drive or adapter, even if it´s SCSI (divided by 1000+ CDs the cost per archived CD is relatively small, don´t you think... ) So, would you recommend Plextor PleXWriter 40/12/40S or is some other (SCSI- or non-SCSI) CD-RW superior (like for example Plextor Premium?) 4) If I will purchase the SCSI-drive, can you recommend some good SCSI-adapter? Again, price is not so relevant, usage of system resources is... 5) If I´ll end up with a SCSI-drive, do you think it would be better to move the extracted data to a SCSI-harddrive (CPU-usage-wise) than a PATA- or SATA -based drive? I´m planning building the system on a motherboard with Sil 3114 SATA-RAID-controller, would transferring the extracted data to that drive negate the advantages of the SCSI-drive (by using system resources)? 6) Do Plextor SCSI-drives still have the annoying, noisy little fan at the backside? Sorry for so many questions , I thank you for your help in advance... With best regards, Tatu P.S. For better coverage, I posted the question to some other sites´ forums as well, dunno if that´s against forum policy... Is it? 8/
As long as you dont multipost here there's no problem with trying to learn more 1. Welcome 2. I used to be a scsi fan to until i realized how much of a hassle it was vs performance boost Now to answer your questions: 1. Its been awhile since ive left scsi behind but i think it would be fair to say that ATAPI devices have improved plenty 2. The CPU is still paralyzed although it is no longer for 10 seconds but more like 3-4 seconds 3. A question more suited for the Audio threads (which is why I will move this post) 4. Couldnt tell ya 5. There are no SATA Cd drives to my knowledge 6. I have no idea I run an ASUS 522452A_X_X_X_X_X_[small]ASUS A7V8X-X, AMD2500+ Samsung 1024MB, PC2700 360GB [3x120GB, 7200, 8MB] MSI Starforce, GeForce4 Ti4400 128MB Rules and Policies: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487 AFTERDAWN IRC: irc.emule-project.net, #ad_buddies COME SAY HI![/small]
Praetor, thanks for the info! Concerning question #5, I think I didn't express myself properly. What I meant was, if I use a SCSI-CD-RW-drive, should I also connect a SCSI-harddrive (to some other channel of the SCSI-adapter) in order to utilize the advantages of SCSI. Ie. would tranferring the extracted between the SCSI and a PATA- or SATA-based harddrive use more system resources and thereby negate the (supposedly) positive things... I'll keep on researching... - Tatu
Just my 0.02..... I swear by my SCSI system for day to day DAW use, and will never give it up. The performance gains are enormous. The only thing to watch out for with writers is that they do need to be on a different channel, or the buss will be pulled down to the slower of the drives on the channel. I have 2 HDD - one for Audio, and one for system on channel 1, and an external Yamaha writer (I have ALWAYS found that external SCSI writers perform much better than internal ones, usually because the internal ones sit on the same channel as the HDD's) & DLT device on channel 2. The advantages of SCSI for me are 1/. the simultaneous access across all drives, and 2/. the sheer speed increase over ANY form of ATA drives. The only non-SCSI stuff in my system internally is a caddy mounted IDE drive purely for samples, and a DVD-R/W burner. It is also a good idea to use asynchronous transfer, and throttle it back to 80 Mb/sec transfer, or current audio software cannot keep up. I use a Tekram DC-390U2/W myself, and find that if not set up right you can occasionally get choking on the PCI buss. This is easily overcome. SCSI is the way, the truth & the light for me, and is so much faster than our serial ATA system which has been a big disappointment to us. I'll give up my SCSI when you prise it from my cold, dead fingers!
If quality is the most iportant factor, the SCSI vs IDE question is quite unimportant IMO. Important: - Software: Most security = bit perfect rips you'll get with Plextools (+ Plextor drive) or Exact Audio Copy (EAC). - Drive: There are big differences in drives' internal error correction capabilities, depending on the optics, chipset + firmware used. To get help choosing a drive you might want to -- read cdrinfo.com reviews -- search http://www.hydrogenaudio.org or http://www.digital-inn.de/forumdisplay.php?f=14 (EAC forum) for "what drive do you recommend" or similar threads or post there if you have more questions. - Speed: If you're extracting quality focused (= EAC secure mode), there'll be big differences in extraction speed. IIRC, some drives are reported to reach > 15x spead while others reach only 2-3x speed. Using lossless compression, the compression-ratio difference between very fast codecs/settings (e.g. flac) and slow ones (e.g. optimfrog) isn't that big, so using a recent Mainboard/Processor combination, probably extraction speed will be the bottleneck speed-wise. - Performance on copy-protected CDs: If you buy new CD releases these days, sooner or later you'll run into one of them. Some of these copy protections (e.g. Cactus Data Shield) contain faulty error correction data resulting in interpolation performed by the drive. In these cases no bit-perfect rip is possible as the correct original data can't be determined. So in case you plan to rip copy-protected CDs you need a drive with good interpolation algorithms. To find one use the resources above. I'm extracting audio CDs a lot but I'm not doing any CPU-expensive stuff like gaming at the same time (besides having folding@home running in the background with idle priority). I can only tell that audio extraction programs like EAC, when performing multiple re-reads for error correction (-> scratches), can slow down the system noticably (IDE here), but I've never read that this doesn't happen with SCSI drives.
Bullshit. Don't trust that. It might be true in certain systems, but when you really feel that CD is consuming CPU, you'll notice that IDE works clearly worse. Another question is quality. That depends on optics and chipset, not interface.
Wise words indeed! There is nothing that will drag down a DAW/DAE configured system faster than games. Also, try to avoid installing demo or time limited applications, as these can prove extremely difficult to get rid of later and clutter up the registry something appalling
