!! Low Quality AVIs...Anyway to make better?

Discussion in 'Other video questions' started by turtle_0, Nov 24, 2002.

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  1. turtle_0

    turtle_0 Member

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    Ok, Hi.
    I know how to go from .avi to a VCD. I have .avis, and I use VirtualDub to decompress them to a TMPGEnc-Friendly Format, then reencode them in TMPGEnc to be burned in Nero.
    The source avis are actually pretty good quality. But after burning, and being played on the VCD, the quality is sorta bad. What i mean by "bad quality" is that the video is kinda blurred, lines arent very clear, and if looked at closely, there are sometimes little squares. (The quality is just a bit under Cable TV's quality.)

    Is there anyway to increase the quality of the avi (or mpeg) before burning, OR just a way to increase the quality of the final product?

    Thanks!
    -Turtle_0
     
    turtle_0, Nov 24, 2002
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  2. jnihil

    jnihil Moderator Staff Member

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    There is a nice little VirtualDub filter called "Smart Smoother High Quality" I use a lot to prepare AVIs before frameserving into TMPG. It nicely smoothes the video (and hence lowering the data required for the VCD/MPG) without blurring the image. Study his guide first as there are many knobs you can use.

    http://shelob.mordor.net/dgraft/hiq/smoothhiq.html
     
    jnihil, Nov 30, 2002
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  3. jnihil

    jnihil Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh, and also try the "Temporal Cleaner" as well. This filter is very nice and fast.
     
    jnihil, Dec 1, 2002
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  4. turtle_0

    turtle_0 Member

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    hmm. thanks, i'll try that soon.
     
    turtle_0, Dec 1, 2002
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  5. turtle_0

    turtle_0 Member

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    Oh. Yes. I browsed through many forums, and have come across almost the same tip on ways to increase AVI/MPG/VCD Quality.

    In TMPGENC, Increasing the "Motion Search Precision", and also increasing the "Rate Control Mode", increasing each of the bitrate settings. One example here:

    [2-Pass VBR]
    [minimum bitrate to between 500 and 1500]
    [average bitrate between 1700 and 2500]
    [maximum bitrate 3600]

    Well, I haven't tried these settings yet, becuase it takes such a loooooong time. Estimated time to finish was 32 hours on my computer, soo.. I would like to know if those settings actually work, and if it really does dramatically change the quality of the final product.
    Anyone know anything about this?

    Thanks In Advance...
    -Turtle_0
     
    turtle_0, Dec 1, 2002
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  6. jnihil

    jnihil Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, it works, but the effectiveness depends on what your source video is like. If it has a lot of movement, then it will be more effective due to the statistical nature of mpeg. Otherwise I would say no.

    Motion search precision will not help you if you have noise on the video. The filters I mentioned are for cleaning that.

    PS: max bitrate of 3600 sounds very high, even for SVCD. Better make sure your DVD player can handle that.
     
    jnihil, Dec 2, 2002
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  7. turtle_0

    turtle_0 Member

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    OK. I downloaded the Smart Smoother High Quality, and ran it through VirtualDub. The projected file size of the result AVI is HUGE. The message says something about compressing the AVI or whatnot. That is exactly what I don't want! Because TMPGENC doesn't like compressed AVIs... What should I do? (Or did I skip something?)

    -Thanks Again In Advance..
    Turtle_0

    P.S: You said something about the Temporal Cleaner... where is that?
     
    turtle_0, Dec 2, 2002
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  8. turtle_0

    turtle_0 Member

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    Eeeeek. Too many questions. I've also heard that Discreet Cleaner 5 is a very nice encoder... is it better than TMPGENC?
    Becuase if it is... then I could just us
    e that to get rid of these Quality Problems... That would be so nice.

    (This is completely off-topic of what i originally was talking about, but I would just like to throw that question out..)

    Thanks To Everyone Helping Me Solve This Problem
    -Turtle_0
     
    turtle_0, Dec 2, 2002
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  9. jnihil

    jnihil Moderator Staff Member

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    You should frameserve the video from vdub into TMPG (there is a 'sticky' article in the forum on frameserving with vdub). Not sure about Cleaner 5, I've never heard of it.
     
    jnihil, Dec 3, 2002
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  10. turtle_0

    turtle_0 Member

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    Thank you for your quick reply, but, I'm still looking for the answer about Smart Smoother High Quality...

    Thanks!!!

    -Turtle_0
     
    turtle_0, Dec 3, 2002
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  11. jnihil

    jnihil Moderator Staff Member

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    Smart Smoother HQ has nothing to do with the project filesize being large and uncompressed AVIs and blah blah blah. That is because you are tring to encode/save the AVI to an uncompressed AVI video format.

    You're getting too ahead of yourself. I think your initial objective was to create a better looking VCD/MPG, so read the article on frameserving, then encode with TMPG again.
     
    jnihil, Dec 4, 2002
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  12. turtle_0

    turtle_0 Member

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    Hm.. I think i am confused. The Smart Smoother HQ is a filter for VirtualDub. Right? So, I load the source AVI, and load the filter and set the settings. Then, I use "Save as AVI". The resulting AVI is huge. This is where i am confused.
     
    turtle_0, Dec 4, 2002
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  13. jnihil

    jnihil Moderator Staff Member

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    jnihil, Dec 4, 2002
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  14. turtle_0

    turtle_0 Member

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    OK, thanks. That article clears up a lot of things! (Yay!), But, now i have very newbie-ish questions that involve step by step things.

    1). So, I have a compressed AVI. (Less than 200 mb.)

    2) Put into VirtualDub, and.... Now what?

    Note that TMPGENC wants uncompressed AVIs, and i need to decompress the source AVIs first, and then i need to use the filters, and.. ARGH!
    Also, do i run the dub with Smoother Filter when the frameserver is on? and...

    -Thanks in Advance.. (Thank You jnihil, very much!)
    Turtle_0

    P.S: So, the AVI (the wrong way I did it, turned out to be like, 15500 MB. So, just because I frameserve it, does it reduce the size or something?
     
    turtle_0, Dec 4, 2002
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  15. jnihil

    jnihil Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm almost at the end of my patience on this subject, so let's get it to go:

    1. Open the AVI in vdub.
    2. Add the video filters you want to use. Make sure all filters are set to your liking.
    3. Make sure that audio is set to AVI audio if your audio source is the same AVI.
    4. Start the frameserver (read the FAQ if it doesn't work).
    5. Open the pseudo AVI in TMPG. Use the project wizard and pick the VCD template.
    6. Set motion precision to Highest, then encode.

    Hope I didn't miss a step. May the force be with you.

    jnihil.
     
    jnihil, Dec 4, 2002
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  16. turtle_0

    turtle_0 Member

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    Thank you very much for you.. I got it!

    Turtle_0

    P.S: 1 last question, where was the temporal cleaner you were talking about?

    Thanks.
     
    turtle_0, Dec 5, 2002
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  17. turtle_0

    turtle_0 Member

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    oops, typo: Thanks very much for your time..*
     
    turtle_0, Dec 5, 2002
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  18. bang

    bang Member

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    Leave it in avi, unless you want to watch on TV (VCD, SVCD).
     
    bang, Dec 5, 2002
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  19. jnihil

    jnihil Moderator Staff Member

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    jnihil, Dec 6, 2002
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  20. turtle_0

    turtle_0 Member

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    OK, thanks a lot for helping me make this work.

    Now... ONLY answer if you feel like it, for I am not expecting any.

    The final product is very much improved than the original now. Thanks to all that helped. But, since i'm burning my video to VCD, the video will be enlarged. So, burned a small segment of the final, filtered stuff. Yay! It looks almost great! But, something still bothers me, the video is still choppy, (there are square thingys if you look closely.) At close range, you can see them very closely, from far, you can't, but It ruins the percepted quality by a lot.

    Is there a filter or something which can get rid of the choppiness?

    Thanks.
    Turtle_0

    P.S: jnihil, the smart smoother really took out about all the noise... thanks.
     
    turtle_0, Dec 6, 2002
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