Hello, I need help creating DVDs from recorded TV. I am recording analogue TV using an ATI HDTVWonder 9850 capture card and Snap Stream’s BeyondTV software. BeyondTV is capturing the programs in MPEG-2 format. I have set it to record in this format because it claims this is the “best”. However, it also has options for recording in DVIX and AVI. I would like to take my MPEG files, edit out the commercials, and archive them onto DVDs. In various attempts, my most notable problem has been the much spoken of audio/video sync issue. So far the best success I’ve had has been editing out the commercials with VideoReDoPlus. This program seems to allow me to edit the MPEG and doesn’t loose the A/V sync. After editing, it saves the file as a new edited MPEG. Here’s where I get into trouble. I now want to create a menu system for my MPEG file and then burn it as an IMG file for spinning to DVDs. I have tried Roxio 6 and it seems to get me an IMG file which I can copy to DVD without or with little A/V sync problems. However, it has very limited menu creation options, and I can’t find a place to change the volume label, so all of my DVDs are named “ROXIO” when viewed in Windows’ “My Computer.” I considered upgrading to Roxio Media Creator 8 software to see if it would give me a better menu creation system, the ability to specify my volume label, and retain the ability to import MPEGs and retain their A/V sync when creating an IMG file, however, the software hasn’t had good reviews. Moreover, I wasn’t confident that the software was really what I needed, or if some other Roxio product would be a better, and perhaps cheaper, choice. I tried using Nero 7 but couldn’t figure out what application would allow me to drop in my mpeg, create a nice menu system, and burn it to disk as an image file. I’ve tried and like DVD-Lab. However demuxing my TV files definitely seems to cause an A/V sync problem. And even if I say don’t demux, it still claims it will remux when compiling a project. The end result is the same, I have A/V sync problems. Anyway, I know what I’m trying to do is not that unusual. Nor probably very difficult for those of you who know about this stuff. But I’m hoping someone will take pity on me and try to recommend a process, or a chain of software processes, that is likely to work. I’m a teacher and I’d really like to try to capture some useful stuff for my kids without having to pay for commercial prints. Any help would be much appreciated. Best regards, P. Horne Summary: I want to take TV captured in MPEG-2 format and burn an edited version of the MPEG file as an IMG file for future copying to DVD. I want to be able to create simple but customized menus I want to be able to specify the volume lable/dvd disk name I want to be able to shrink my movies down if they are above the 4.3gb DVD size.
Demux the files using PVAStrumento. DVDLab's demuxer isn't always the best. Author in DVDLab. You can't get much better than that, because VideoReDo is usually great at cutting and joining (removing the commercials). The other option is to have VideoReDo demux during the cutting process. In Tools, options, general, select "Default file save format" as Elementary Streams MPV.
Thank you very much, Jim. Simplicity and brevity are always appreciated by those of us with less technical savvy. Below I have tried to repeat my understanding of your suggestions. Please correct me if I've misunderstood in any way. My thanks again, P. Horne 1) Capture TV to MPEG-2 file 2) Clean up the file (delete commercials, etc.) using VideoReDo and save as a NewEditedMPEG.mpg file. 3) Take my NewEditedMPEG.mpg and demux it using PVAStrumento (I take it you think this product exceeds the demux option in VideoRedo, so I’m happy to add another piece of software to the process.) Import my demuxed files into DVDLab, create menus, (author as liked) and Compile in DVDLab. Questions? As A/V sync has been a problem in this process, is Compiling in DVDLab likely to introduce an audio/video out-of-sync problem? Or are you suggesting, that by using PVAStrumento for demuxing, my files will be sufficiently compliant enough to avoid this problem when they are remuxed during DVDLabs compile process?
For grins I went out and took Jim's suggestion to get PVAStrumento 2.1.0.1 to demux the MPEG-2 TV files I am trying to put on DVD. It seems like a good piece of software to add to one's dvd toolkit. It runs a real-time text log of its activities. Below is what appeared with my first run. Note that it identifies the audio as not being DVD-compliant. I am wondering if there is also information in this log that tells me what to do about it. Anyway here it is... <<DEMUXING>> Input: E:\Movies\10 Days That Unexpectedly Changed America\10 Days That Changed America - 01 - EDITED.mpg Options .. fixing startup delay. .. fixing stream synch. .. keeping track of audio offset accumulation. .. strict checking of audio framing. .. falling back to relaxed semantics on TS .. dropping GOPs longer than 980 KB .. splitting on change of video format. .. splitting on change of audio format. .. splitting on number of audio tracks. .. clearing CDF .. creating new GOP timecodes. Closing starting GOP. Aiming for sync at 00:00:00.200 Streamstart seems to be in (reasonable) sync: Video 1 starts at 00:00:00.200 Audio 1 starts at 00:00:00.200 New MPEG video : \10 Days That Changed America - 01 - EDITED_00.mpv New MPEG audio : \10 Days That Changed America - 01 - EDITED_00.mpa [ Found a GOP with more than 15 pics. This is not DVD compliant, but many players accept it. See summary for total number at end. ] ALERT> Temporal structure wrong in GOP at EOF. Dropping. Last fileset: 2336886099 total bytes written Video 1: 78075 frames, 00:43:25.102 Audio 1: 108410 frames, 00:43:21.840 Sync estimate at EOF: MPEG Audio #1 : 3262 ms before video Video statistics ================ GOP length (min/avg/max): 1 / 17 / 18 [frames] 28522 / 507836 / 564242 [Bytes] GOP bitrate (min/avg/max): 1038 / 6978 / 30224 [kbps] ++ INFO: ++ 4250 GOP(s) with more than 15 frames were found ++ This is not "DVD-compliant" ++ It _may_ cause problems in DVD-authoring or ++ with some DVD players
The GOP should be under 18, so it will probably be OK, unless you NEED a PAL video, then GOP should be 15. Despite the warnings, it should still be fine to play. Check your recording settings for audio. If you can record CBR audio at 128kbps, 48khz, that's what you should be using. The card will record mpeg2-layer3 audio, aka .mpv or .mp2 PVAStrumento tries to decypher this, and will give a warning if it's not 48khz. This is probably where the sync issue is happening. Your recording software may be recording it at 44.1khz, and the conversion will skew it out. Once loaded into dvdlab, you'll see what the audio really is. If it's not 128kbps 48khz, you'll need to adjust the recording software. The bitrate is personal preference, so 96kbps or 224kbps are acceptable, 128 is just a happy medium, but it must be 48khz. If you can adjust GOP, set it to 15, just to be "safe". If not, try authoring one to your hard drive, and see if it maintains sync at the END of the video. Try using videoredo's demuxing, which may produce a more compliant file, or may not. Check the Options, Stream Parameters section. Set Detect/Resync... to "resync...remove audio frames". Set Convert all I frames to GOPs checkbox. Do this even if you plan to demux in PVAStrumento. As you'll notice from PVAStrumento's output, the audio is out by almost 4 seconds. This is a progressive skew, and difficult to adjust. By adjusting the recording process, this should fix itself. If you cannot get good sync, then there are other processes you can use that will adjust the audio to match video, but this requires other software. HTH
My thanks again, Jim. I had a successful effort today using a rather laborious process. I'm posting it below in the hopes that I'll receive criticism to improve the efficiency of my process. I also have a specific quesiton that relates to your last post which was very instructive. OK here goes, my process to date: 1. Recorded TV as an MPEG-2 file with SnapStream’s BeyondTV; riding on an ATI HDTV Wonder Card 2. Edited the MPEG-2 file with VideoReDoPlus to remove commercials, leadins, trailer’s, etc. 3. Saved the edited MPEG-2 file as NewMPEG-2 file. 4. Opened the NewMPEG-2 file in PVAStrumento and Demuxed the file; demuxing separated the NewMPEG-2 into two parts – an audio file *.MPA and a video file *.MPV. MPA, I believe, stands for MPEG-1 Level 2 Audio and is less than ideal for common compliance so… 5. I converted the MPA file to AC3 using BeSweet 6. Next, I opened DVD-Lab, imported the MPV file and the AC3 file, created a menu system, and recompiled the authored project. DVD-Labs compile produced a Video_TS and an Audio_TS directories which could then be burned to DVD; However,… 7. I chose to Burn the compiled project to an Image file using DVD-Lab so I can quickly and easily reproduce this DVD in the future 8. Finally, I burned the *.IMG file using DVD-Decrypter and tested it:  Plays in Windows Media Player  Plays in a stand-a-lone DVD Player  Plays in other PCs with differing DVD players  The menu system worked in all cases; Audio and Video worked in all cases and were in sync. Now given Jim’s comments /observations of the output from PVAStrumento I may have simply gotten lucky that this worked. PVAStrumento noted that “MPEG Audio #1 : 3262 ms before video.” So I have two questions: Is there a piece of software that will allow me to take that skew number 3262 and realign the audio/video? Are there changes I should make to improve my process and with the goals of improving efficiency and improving the likelihood that my DVDs will work in a variety of environments. Other hardware/software suggestions are welcome I’m not above spending some money to improve efficiency.
You used besweet in step 5, which is OK, although tedious. Audio type .mpa or .m2a is acceptable, and will play in 90% of players, even though dvdlab throws the warning about it. AC3 is definitely the way to go. I use Ffmpeggui to do my audio conversions. It's faster, and easier to use than besweet. Your process is about as good as it gets. Pvastrumento has probably done it's best at maintaining sync, which is why I recommended it in the first place. Glad it all worked out. As far as hardware/software recommendations, the ad hoc standard for mpeg-2 capture cards are the Hauppauge PVR ones. The 150, 250, 350, 500 (dual tuner) and USB2. I have a various mix of 150's, 250's and 500's in 5 different computers here, and wouldn't buy anything else. For software, they're all controlled by GBPVR, which is free, and a superb bit of coding. They don't do HDTV though, which may be a consideration, if you have a genuine HDTV source (cable, satellite, or other STB).
Jim, Just wanted to say a belated thank you very much. I've been able to catalogue several shows for my students which, if I had to pay to obtain them, would have cost more than my allowance Anyway, much thanks again. While tedious, it seems to be working well. I wonder why some entrepreneur hasn't put this all together in an envelope solution. Perhaps its to come soon. I shall hope. Best regards Paige
Glad that it works. There are several all-in-one packages that claim to do exactly that, however...they all fall apart in one step or the other in the process. Best results are always obtained by using dedicated applications that do only one thing, and do it extremely well. Yes, it's time consuming, but consider the amount of knowledge you've gained, and that you can be proud of the end product, by doing things the right way, not necessarily the fastest way. After going through roughly 10 different "DVD Maker" packages, and not being happy with the results from any of them, asking plenty of open ended questions, I have now been using virtualdub, tmpgenc (or mainconcept) PVAStrumento, and DVDLab for a very long time to produce my disks, and have been extremely happy with the results. Something I could never say about any of the other, more expensive solutions.
I really appreciate your comments about being proud to learn to do something right. This effort, to learn something techie, was challenged by my own eight year old who wondered why I'd bother. I told him that learning "even at my advanced age" was something I valued, and that the process of problem solving is a skill I particularily value. I hope to pass that on to him in spirit and use this experience to share with my other students about technology problem solving. Anyway, your point was well thought and your contribution much appreciated. I am going to trial some of the other prouducts you mentioned, notably VirtualDub, TMPGEnc. I've been using DVD-Lab for sometime with satisfaction and I grately appreciated your recommended addition of PVAstrumento. I suspect I'll need to play and tweak to really get a process or a few processes I am very confident with. As you are a PVAStrumento user perhaps you can tell me what you do with this: The program is kind enough to give you a sync estimate it reads like this: Sync estimate at EOF: MPEG Audio #1 : 36 ms before video Now my interpretation is that in VideoReDo I would be well served to Audio Adjust by 36ms to get better sync. However, this does not seem to work well. I ran several experiements. I'm wondering if there is a better way to judge an out of sync problem and adjust it hopefully in VideoReDo because I happen to have it. But I seriously looked at the new TMPGEnc package and am willing to use other/better tools in the process. Anyway, my thanks again for your input. P. Horne
PVAStrumento gives it's estimate, based on true timelines. It will also adjust if necessary to maintain sync. If you find the file is really out of sync by 35ms at the end of the file, then VideoReDo is the easiest method to adjust it, but usually the demux process corrects it. You can also adjust sync in DVDLab, although it's only for continuous desync, not progressive. I use virtualdub to demux avi's, or to directly frameserve to tmpgenc, thus adding some preprocessing (using vdub's filters in various ways) and avoid saving an intermediate (usually much larger) uncompressed avi. I use Mainconcept's mpeg converter for it's speed and quality. It's not free, but has as many (if not more) options than tmpgenc, but it's difficult to tweak just right, especially on resizing. It really doesn't matter all that much, which tools you choose, providing you use them correctly, otherwise results can be poor, and frustration level's rise considerably. The process you're using, with videoredo to edit, pvastrumento to demux and dvdlab for authoring, is about as simple and accurate you can get, without spending hundreds or more on semi-professional tools, that can be extremely difficult to use because of the sheer number of options and settings. Download some trial versions, give it some time, then refine your process, using the tools that you prefer. There is no single definitive method of "best", just your subjective opinion.
