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Official docTY Taiyo Yuden (2) thread

Discussion in 'DVD±R media' started by creaky, Jul 27, 2007.

  1. creaky

    creaky Moderator Staff Member

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    The only time i'll ever have a need for DL is if BD encodes require it, otherwise SL movies are enough for all my movie and data backups. In fact i still prefer CD's over DVD's for important data backups. There was a time that i was going to consolidate all my old CD backups onto DVD's but i have a feeling that all my CD's will outlast any DVD's (a lot of my CD's hail back from when recordable CD's first came onto the market and are still going strong). DVD's haven't been around long enough for me to trust them as much as CD's yet.
     
  2. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    Yah...I think I can understand where your coming from. Verbatim released a gold archive (medical grade) a little while back.
    [​IMG]
    Makes me a little nervous. Because, why would they feel the need to upgrade from Datalife, when their obviously performing well. I wonder if they're aware of some kinda issue, that limits their life expectancy? I guess nothing lasts forever :(
     
  3. greensman

    greensman Regular member

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    O-man7 I think this has been talked about before but my memory is getting worse and I'm not even of retirement age yet. lol. Anyway IIRC the archival grade discs are VERY expensive and supposed to have a life of 100 years plus or something like that. I'm sure creaky knows more but they are very use specific discs and NOT for normal customers like you and me. :p

    I'm sure your regular Verbies and TY's will do just fine. :D

    ....gm
     
  4. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    Yah...I remember checking the cost on those when they came out. I dont remember what it was. But its TOTALLY for the medical industry!!!

    EDIT - I think maxell made something along those lines too

    EDIT 2 - ok, they average 1$ to 1.5$ per disc. WOW WOW!!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2009
  5. FredBun

    FredBun Active member

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    It's funny this subject has come up, just yesterday I was reading on a site about how long CD's & DVD's really last, there was a lot of debate about it, this info was pretty interesting, there was a lot of opinions but the guy (the publisher of the site I guess) has his opinion.

    I can't remember his exact words but he said something like, He had dealt with so called experts for years on this subject, and they say no matter what grade or manufaturers disc's you use and of course there are better makes than others, that it did not make any difference because no one will last a long time, a long time can be be a difference in other peoples perspective I guess, but they said corporate made CD's & DVD's have a special coating on them which will make them last almost indefinitely, and the store bought one's do not, cause as soon as you make a burn there is no coating and if there was you could'nt burn anyway, they said even those really expensive one's would not make a difference, thus the difference, how do you guys feel about that?
     
  6. Cornet32

    Cornet32 Member

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    what rubbish!! The cds and dvd that are made have a protective coating on them to help prevent dirt and crud from hurting the surface. I have 200 of the hardened DVD from Ty and they somehow added a thin protective layer and the cost was the same.
    Why all cdr and dvdr are not made this way is not at all clear. It could not be that expensive to add such a coating and make a big deal of it if the price had to be raised a few cents per disk.

    I touched the surface and there was a finger print which was wiped away with a soft cloth made for cds and there was no damage at all to the disk
     
  7. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    yah...I guess I could care less, Really. I mean, I treat my discs like they're premature babies. YAH, that nicely LOL. Mine will probably outlive me atleast :D So long as I maintain their temperature really well. ESPECIALLY the printable ones. Something tells me the adhesive isnt gonna like warm cool warm cool warm cool, without peeling!
     
  8. ZoSoIV

    ZoSoIV Regular member

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    i've been buying CDs since 1982 and they still play fine. thats 27 years
     
  9. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    Ummm...I think you meant 1992 :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2009
  10. greensman

    greensman Regular member

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    ROFL!!! You gotta watch them "old" folks O-man7... they remember things a little differently. :D They came out in the mid-80's I'm pretty sure.... well at least to the general public.... Going by memory myself... makes me old too. :p

    ....gm
     
  11. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    Boy do I feel like a... donkey :) You are correct GM. I guess I was remembering MY first cd ROFL!!!
     
  12. FredBun

    FredBun Active member

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    I have been buying and burning mine since 2000, of course I started buying media like memorex hp, tdk's and believe it or not most are still not coasters, than after joining AD around 2002 I learned not to buy crap media and have sticked with ty's and verb's since.

    The coating on corporate made cd's and dvd's makes sense, it's funny how some experts say blank media will last no more than 5 years as others say around 10 to 20, I hardly never beleive in what experts say, I always beleive the people in the trenches.
     
  13. ZoSoIV

    ZoSoIV Regular member

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    yeah store bought CDs came out Oct. of 1982
     
  14. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    I sincerely apologize buddy. I guess I wasnt entirely certain. In the future, I wont assume. You know what they say about ass-u-me! LOL
     
  15. ZoSoIV

    ZoSoIV Regular member

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    i was 24 years of age in Oct. of 1982 lol
     
  16. omegaman7

    omegaman7 Senior member

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    I was about to turn 3 LOL! Sorry about off topic
     
  17. ChrisC586

    ChrisC586 Regular member

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    LOL I used to like this thread till you all made me realize my age!LOL I was 30 in 1982. But longevity on a Cd was the test of time put by my daughter on CD's I made for her that have road with her in the car mostly uncased in the glove compartment, on the back seat, I'm sure on the floor of the car ROFLO and still play today! DVD wise going back to copies I've made the Verb movie , verb , & tys still play excellent. The only ones that lost it over the years were the memorex [at the time I believe wiped out my 1620 Benq]& the Maxwells non Hitachi and some Sonys Tai vntage.As far as Adrianna she's on +R Ty's which in my opinion are the best as her as pointed out by the Doc! Chris
     
  18. garmoon

    garmoon Regular member

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    @ChrisC586

    Feel young again. In 1982 I was 36 with a 1yr old daughter. With a Jan 9th birthday I'm one of the very first baby boomers. The ones that are going to drain SS dry soon. I did resist buying cds for 10 years.
     
  19. blivetNC

    blivetNC Regular member

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    I have one test CD from late 1999 which has lived in the back deck of two cars here in NC an in MD and still plays, so call it extreme heat/cold abuse testing and an almost a ten year shelf life. We will see how long before this one dies.
     
  20. JoeRyan

    JoeRyan Active member

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    A well recorded CD-R with phthalocyanine dye ought to last over 100 years if it is handled and stored properly according to environmental tests using the Eyring standard of double stress factors. In the most thorough tests done, the two stress factors were heat and humidity. CD-Rs using cyanine dye were not tested. Taiyo Yuden's certificate of longevity issued in Europe stated 35 years for their CD-Rs using cyanine dye, which is 15 years less than what they stated for their azo-cyanine dye-based DVD-R media.

    Under the same test conditions, 95% of the DVD+R discs tested exceeded 39 years, and over half reached a "life-time" of 52 years. All these discs used azo-cyanine dye. (Fuji's Oxonol dye showed some signs of being even better, but the testing program was terminated early because of the time and cost it took and because sales departments insisted consumers did not care.)

    Hard coatings are applied to the upper surface of CD-Rs because that surface is more critical than the bottom. The cost of a standard hard coating is approximately $0.01 U.S. Its protective abilities are about the same as that for the lacquer that is necessary to seal the silver-alloy mirror layer from corrosion and that for the silk-screen print layer. However, the addition of a hard coating on top of the lacquer/print layers is cumulative and adds additional protection.

    Hard coatings for DVD media are applied to the bottom of the disc because the smaller pit marks and tracks make these media more susceptible to scratches. A superior hard coating that offers much more protection than the standard hard coat costs about $0.03 per disc. The total cost depends on the application method. Some coatings go on just as a spin-coat method, while others are "silk-screened." The costs are different for each. One problem with the spin-coat is that small droplets of hard coating spin off, coagulate, then bouce back onto the disc and act as mini-lenses that will create severe errors. Better filtering and higher air flow has reduced that problem. "Corporate" media are no different from standard media. The industrial versions are under as much price pressure as anyone else. Hospitals and medical people, however, are gullible enough to pay exceedingly high prices for specialized discs--see below--and willing to pay such prices because they pass all costs off to insurance companies or the public after they have increased the charges ten-fold or more.

    Gold used as a mirror layer is superior to silver-alloy only in that it will not corrode if exposed to air. Any disc whose mirror layer is exposed to air is a defective disc in the first place. All discs should be properly sealed by the lacquer coating. On the other hand, if the gold is applied in too thin a layer, it may act as a signal modulater and cause reading problems. Gold is slightly less reflective than silver-alloy, so the thickness has to be great enough to produce a consistent level of reflection. A good gold layer in a CD-R makes a better, but more expensive disc than a silver-alloy layer as long as all else is identical. That is not true of DVDs. The design of the recordable DVD is based on silver-alloy, unlike that of the design for CD-Rs that was based originally on gold. DVD+/-R discs with gold layers generally perform worse than discs using silver-alloy in terms of initial recording errors. Verbatim recognized this and uses a silver-alloy mirror layer combined with a gold layer to keep the error rates at the same levels as standard DVD+/-R media. This method keeps the error rate low, increases the perception of quality, drives up cost, and provides little real benefit to anyone except the marketing departments and medical groups who pass the extra costs on...
     

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