Pioneer vsx-2 speakers and issues

Hi, i recently bough myself a new lcd telly without thinking of my long term needs. You see, my tv only has one hdmi input and one vga, plus the usual scarts etc. The problem is i just bought myself a 360 which had the component leads. However i did buy the vga cable which is great but its a pain in the rear when i wanna use my pc on my tv as i have to keep switching the cables which is not easy considering the inputs location!

Also, with sky hd and the ps3 coming, all of which are hdmi, i know im gonna be stuck in the same situation in a few months time. instead of buying a new tv, i thought about a home cinema receiver, the problem is that im a bit of a noob when it comes to this!

I saw the pioneer VSX-AX2AV-S, which i think will meet my needs but im looking for some advice (http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_detail.jsp?product_id=11383&taxonomy_id=42-98)

1. if i connect all my sources to the receiver (component, s-video etc) will i be able to output them all via the hdmi output?

2. If this can be done, will the component input (360) be displayed at 720p via the hdmi? and will the rest of the source also be upscaled to 720p?

3. Is it worth holding out for a receiver that supports dolby true hd? i dont know much about this, but i heard the ps3 will support it?

4. I heard that the ps3 will use hdmi 1.3 which is not compatible with hdmi 1.1? i doubt that could be true, surely? Has 1.3's specifications even been finalised?

a bit of a long story for 2 questions but i have bought so many things in the past in error all because i havent done the right research. i dont want to get into such a big purchase without being 100% sure!

Thanks in advance

 

Menz83...I will see if I can locate someone to answer your questions: I'm hesitant because european connetions are different from american (senseless, I know but true all the same); I don't want to misadvise...Gerry

 

Thats a nice reciever!

Yes.

Some 360 games are 720p while others are 1080i. There is no upconversion needed via Component Video and HDMI, only digitization.

All other standard def ports (S-Video and Composite Video) will be upconverted to whatever your set can handel best (720p or 1080i)

All Dolby Digital and Dolby Pro Logic receivers are compatible with Dolby TrueHD.

Check-out this page for more info...
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/trueHD/avrs/trueHD_avrs_1.html

No HDMI v1.3 hasn't been finalized (for that matter the v1.2 hasn't been released yet). But, HDMI.org has stated that all iterations of HDMI will be backwards compatible. The old versions won't support the new featues though, of course.

Good questions,
Ced

 

Thank you so much diabolos for answering my questions and same to you gerry1. I feel more at ease with parting with so much money. All i need to do know is save up some cash so i can get some speakers to match!

Thank you all again, your help is much appreciated!

 

@menz83...come on back if you want some assistance with the speakers ... or hang around; there's much you can learn in this site.

(thanks Ced!)

 

Well hello again. Once again, thanks all for your help before, it was much appreciated and i am now waiting for my receiver to be delivered. Im like a kid at xmas now, im just so excited!

Gerry1 - I have been a member here for quite some time now. Afterdawn is such a great resource for information, normally using the search function is enough to find what i need so i dont often make posts.

Now i have to take you up on that offer for help with speakers! I am on a tight budget now after splashing out almost £700 on the receiver. I was looking for a minimum 5.1 setup but 7.1 would be nice if the price was right. I only have a little flat go having 7 speakers would be enough to knock the flat down, but thats what i want!

I know very little on the subject on speakers etc but i do believe that the impedance and frequencies and important? (correct me if im wrong!). Anyways, im not gonna talk about something that i know little about, im gonna leave that to you guys!

My budget ideally is £300 max (Im a student and im gonna struggle even with that!) Im looking for good quality sound that will really compliment the movies i watch and the games i play. I Know my budget is little tight, but i know there must be something out there for me, but i would be prepared to pay that little bit extra if it would be worth it!

Coulour wise, ill be looking for silver although i do like the light beech coulered speakers i have seen kicking about!

So does anyone have any suggestions? Your help is much appreciated and i look forward to your replies!

 

@menz83...How are you guy? Let me ask two questions: 1) Did you buy the pioneer you mentioned above or something else (If so, what?) and 2) Which would you be doing more, listening to music or watching movies and plaing games as you mentioned (I'll explain later but there is an important reason for that last question).

Menz, even if you buy a 7.1 system, that fine, but configure it as a 5.1....trust me when I say that you DON'T want a 7.1 configuration is a small place. You won't get more volume out of a 7.1 as much as you'll get more points from which that volume is dispersed. A 7.1 configuration will give you exactly the OPPOSITE of what you're expecting...particularly with movies and games. Sound effects and the sense of "reality" that good sound tracks will produce will be ruined with a 7.1 system in a small room...two many points of dispersion in a confined space will mask the effects because they're enveloped in all this other sound. I wish were eloquent enough to explain this properly! AND BE CAREFUL WHAT SALESMEN TELL YOU! A sale is a sale, my friend...they'll always sell you more if you give them the opportunity so naturally they'll tell you that more is better. A second reason to go with 5.1 is that you're operating with a limited budget...your budget gives you two options regarding your speakers...you can get a really decent 5.1 system in your budget or a poor to mediocre 7.1 If your system is capable of 7.1, configure it as 5.1 with GOOD speakers and just add to it later if you're so inclined but to be frank, even if you had twice the money, I'd recommend 5.1

Let me use my system as an example: my front speakers are these massive Mirage OM-5s which are active in the lower mid range to base (additional apmification). When I watch movies though, I'll set the receiver to "small" fronts. If you look at other places in the forum, you'll see that a lot of people do exactly the same. Why? It doesn't change the volume at all but redirects the dispertion of the sound. When you set the fronts to "small" it will redirect not just the deepest base but also the lower 1/3 of the midrange to the subwoofer...sound isn't reduced but redirected. Doing this really highlights or emphasizes the sound effects by reducing the amount of sound surrounding the effects and moving it to the sub. I didn't explain that very well I guess, but its true. The same reasoning applies to why 5.1 will serve you better in a small room that 7.1. Thats also why so many people are impressed when they hear those tiny bose cubes, polk, mirage and others...they do it by redirecting sound this highlighting the effects.

So, when you get a moment, let me know if you bought that pioneer and if you listen more to music or if you spend more time with movies and games....Gerry

 

@menz83....I was just looking at speakers. 300 pounds amount to roughly $550 US. You have two options:

1) I saw quite a few "packages"...the whole 5.1 speaker system sold as a package. (Don't let anyone tell you that these package deals aren't any good. That simply isn't true). Granted I was looking at US web sites but I saw quite a few decent packages in your price range.

2) You could go with somewhat better speakers and put off buying the sub until a later time. With bookshelf and larger speakers, you can go without a sub when, in the speaker configuration menu of your receiver, you choose "off" in the menu. The bass will come through the front speakers like your regular stereo systems but the center and sattlelites and the effects will work fine. Obviously, the bass won't be as pronounced as with a sub, but it will be there through the speakers like a regular stereo. The way that a powered sub works is that it adds outside amplification targeting those lower frequencies which are rerouted and sent to it. Setting the sub to off stops the rerouting. They invented subs because lower frequencies requires far more dedicated amplification than the receiver can provide..so the bass IS there, but not as loud...so you CAN do without the sub. The tiny speakers CANNOT be operated without a sub because of the crossover points at higher frequencies.

So, you can choose higher quality speakers and operate them without the sub and the bass will still be there...nothing will be missing but bear in mind you're apt to be a bit disappointed having heard systems WITH the sub.

 

Once again, thanks for the quick response Gerry. I was in my local Sevenoaks sound and vision just the other day and the salesman told me more or less the same as what you have about big speakers/no sub and sattlelites/sub setups. I thought a 7.1 setup would be a bit much, especially when condisering the size and shape of my room.

I did buy the pioneer receiver i mentioned in my first post, it was the first one that really caught my eye when i first started looking and it was within my budget!

As for usage, it will be failry mixed between music, movies and games. I would say i will be using it mostly for music followed closely in second by games then lastly movies. I am a big games player and i love making the most of surround modes in all games, especially racing. most of the music i listen to will be 2 channel mp3's. I will be making the most of my xbox 360's media centre capabilities when listening to music and watching movies.

I hope this is enough info for you to make some recommendations. If you could post some links to speaker packages or even individual speakers, that would be great!

Thanks

 

O.K. menz...I'll see what I can dig up. I wish I knew the major retailers and distributers in the UK. I'm doing searches through google and yahoo's UK home pages. I've run into a lot of manufacturers that I've never heard some of who seem to have an awesome product. I'll get back as soon as I have a few.

 

menz.....
I'm gonna have to agree with gerry, on the 5.1 setup, even if you get a 7.1 speaker package. A small room just doesn't allow for enough separation of the speakers, for a 7.1 setup to do a lot of good. If you can afford it though, it would be good to buy a 7.1 set, and save the extra two for when you [bold]do[/bold] have room to set them up right.

I would see you if you can some good bookshelf speakers for now, and maybe start saving for better speakers, down the road. Speakers are really the most important part of a system. Afterall, that's where the sound comes from. Speakers will determine how your system sounds, more than a receiver does. Speakers should be anywhere from half, to three quarters the total cost of your system. I understand how it's hard to get what you want to start with though. That's why I said to start saving. ) When you can get better speakers, move the original ones to the bedroom, or whichever other room could use them.

A sub would be great, but again, not absolutely necessary, to begin with. I went almost a year without one, and didn't realize what I was missing, until I finally got one. It can make a big difference, but if you don't have the money.................

Whatever speakers you get, you'll also need an HT Setup Disc, and SPL meter, to calibrate them. Here in the states, the discs costs about $20-$30, and an SPL meter from Radio Shack is $40. These two items are pretty important, for getting the best possible sound, from what you get.

Of course, if you don't mind going in debt, you can go ahead and buy a really great, complete system, that will last for [bold]many[/bold] years, and be through with it! )
Good luck, and keep us posted on what's happening with all this?

 

Hi JVC; thanks a lot for jumping in; I need to find a Brit to get involved in this. I thought the manufacturers would be more or less the same as they are here but quite the opposite; I've never heard of most of them. I've isolated a few in your price range and with good reviews Menz83 but with the exception of Infinity, I've never heard of them:

http://www.richersounds.com/showpro...N-EFX5.1&SID=c0cfaaa325a18686e06d690d211c1d5c

http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/189244/art/infinity/tss_500_5_1_speaker_pack.html?srcid=36

http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo-2.cfm/Product_ID/2166#m3c1

http://www.hifistore.co.uk/product.php?qsProd=PACKAGE1#

http://uk.nextag.com/Mission-CINEMA-M30i-LE--zz503841775zukzB3z2--COMPARE-PRICES-html

I have a number of others on my computer at home; I won't be able to add them to this list until tomorrow.

I think the best package we could put together would be from Cambridge Soundworks ... minus the sub, we could put together something really awesome for your 300 pounds but the question is, how the hell to get it shipped to the UK???

http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/store/category.cgi?category=speakers

 

Hey menz83....out of curiosity...what sort of speakers do you have now? There is the possibility of a third option, i.e., building upon what you're already got...perhaps as the rears if they can be augmented with timber matched fronts, so, what have you got now?

 

Of the ones that gerry linked to, I like the looks of the Acoustic Energy Aegis Evo Package 1 the best, because they look like they have a fair size woofer in them. If you're not gonna have a sub, it'll be good to have speakers with a fair size woofer, to handle the bass.

Without a sub, set your main speakers to "Large", and the LFE (bass) signal will go to the mains. As far as brands of speakers, I would think they sell JBL speakers, in the UK too. JBL makes a very good speaker.

@gerry.......
Infinity speakers are sold here too. In fact, they are very decent. I've just never seen any of the tiny ones like that, with the Infinity name. It [bold]could[/bold] be a different company, I guess.

 

@JVC ... I don't think its a different company but I will check to be sure. All but the acoustic energy REQUIRE a sub but don't be fooled by the size! Take these for example:

http://miragespeakers.com/omnistat_mic.shtml#

These speakers are about the size of a baseball yet you should hear these little suckers; they're astonishing! You were right about the acoustic energy having a larger woofer but you can operate the acoustic energy WITHOUT a subwoofer while the other ones I posted cannot because like the mirages above, they are (for lack of a better explanation) on 1/2 of a speaker !! ...the only produce the usual sound from the tweeter but only the higher end of the mid range; the rest, with the crossover set at a much higher frequency, is sent to the sub. So, these speakers MUST have a sub; you cannot use them without one. The acoustic energy speakers don't require a sub...naturally, they'll sound better with one like any system but they don't REQUIRE one. The others I posted absolutely must have a sub...the sub is, in effect, the "other half" of the speaker. I know it's a bizarre concept but like I said, don't be fooled. If you get the really good ones like the mirages, they actually sound better than most large towers because in re-routing a good portion of the mid-range through the sub (with independent amplification) you, in essense, have a speaker with an "active" and independently amplified mid-range as well as bass. You've seen the monstrosities I have for my towers...my towers have an independent 200w amplifier to give more kick to the midrange. Those little things do the same by sending the signal to the sub. Take a listen to them some day; they defy their tiny size!

The acoustic energy that you preferred does have excellent reviews ... the ones I posted all had good reviews but all the acoustic energy speakers seem to get nothing but praise... I suspect they're among the UK's higher end stuff. There are a couple of other acoustic energy systems I want to post when I get home and there is another as well but I can't remember the name; I'll post those when I get home too. I'll continue to look but so far, all the JBL I ran into (and there was a lot) were all either PA systems or DJ public address/music speakers.

I asked Menz what he had at the moment because there's like a 50/50 chance that he could use them as the rear surrounds if there are compatible fronts and put his 300 pounds into only the two mains and the center thereby getting a better quality than buying new speakers all the way around.

None of the US companies will ship to the UK. I've got to admit, this has been rather interesting...I guess because its all new to me. The UK has a lot of independant speaker makers who build some of the strangest looking things I've ever seen LOL! I should post some of them just for the laugh...just gimmicky stuff and I find it hard to believe people buy them, but someone must! I think I will post some of them....imagine "The Jetson's" design of a 5.1 speaker system LOL!

 

Theres a lot been happening here then! Big thanks Gerry for doing all the searching for me! I spied the Acoustic Energy Aegis Evo Package 1 earlier and i did like the look of em, so i think that may be my purchase in the future.....

Just got my receiver today, wow its big, i dont think mt glass shelf will be strong enough for it! The missus aint happy, she took one look at the remote control and decided to quit while she was ahead, too many buttons for her liking apparently!

I was thinking of buying a decent set of floor standing speakers for now and maybe build my way up. I thought that maybe as you suggested gerry, the speakers i have now may work. I dunno what kinda connection they use so i took a picture for you to give you a better idea. I would say that they would only fit into the pre-out connections, dunno if that would work though!

http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn25348rh.jpg

I finally found the manual for some info on them. Heres exactly what the manual states about the satellites:

Speaker type: 4x3 fullrange
Impedance: 8Ohms
Frequency response: 200 Hz - 18Khz
Load power: 8 watts (RMS)
Efficiency: 85dB

So what ya think, will they work or will they fry? Hope they do work cuz then i can go out and get floorstanding speakers and a centre today!

Big thanks to Gerry and JVC for helping me out with this one (not to forget ced's contribution)!

 

Sorry to say it, but I wouldn't use the speakers you have.
You [bold]only[/bold] use the pre out connections, with powered stuff. If your speakers had built in amplifiers, then you could use the pre outs. You could cut off the rca connector, and use the two wires left, but in your info it said the speakers are 8 watts. If you hook them up, you will probably blow them, immediately. You'll need a minimum of 100 watt speakers.

You might be able to find some decent speakers at a pawn shop, for a good price, to hold you for awhile.

Sorry to be a buzz killer, about your current speakers, but they won't hold up with your new receiver. Again.......... good luck!

 

@menz...put little british flags on them because you'll be the first to land speakers on the moon! Perhaps you should do as you as mentioned: get yourself two good fronts and a center and hold off; perhaps you can get some temporary ones for the back at a pawn shop or even some junkie ones for the rear at a thrift store just to hold you off. Lord, I wished you lived in the states, I could put a couple in a box and send you some (I'm a "pack-rat" and have closets full of junk) but until you can find something to put in the rear, just turn everything off on the speaker configuration menu except the two fronts and the center.That acoutic energy brand has some good stuff; you could probably get two better fronts and a center.
; I'll take a peek just for the hell of it. I must confess, this has been fun.

 

Well guys, your help has been greatly appreciated and i have taken on board what you have said and have come to a decision, a long term decision! I figured i couldn't really get everything i wanted within my budget so i decided to start off small, then go big!

I went into my local sevenoaks sound and vision for a look. After much discussion with the salesman, i bought a set of kef bookshelf speakers in maple (http://www.kef.com/history/2000/q/qseriescompact.asp). I really didn't know what to expect because i always used to think 'bigger is better'. How wrong was I. I am simply amazed with these speakers, especially when compared to my old setup. I hate James Blunt but the misses made me try it out when i was doing some testing. The audio was simply breathtaking, i loved it! Music has never sounded so good, tv sounds fantistic and i cant wait to try out games. I simply cant believe what im hearing from such small speakers!

The future is looking bright, i'm saving now to finish the system off. For now though, im more than satisfied. A little bit more configuring and everything will be perfect.

Although im very happy with sound, im a little dissapointed with the video output. Got my 360 up and running from component to hdmi and although colours seem more lifelike and the picture seems a bit more sharp compared to vga, there seems to be something 'different'. I cant explain why, it was certain shaded black/grey areas (if that makes sense!) didnt seem right, like when you look at a monitor at a dodgey angle and the image gets distorted. I know i didnt explain it right but there is something different about it. Well i cant complain for now, i havent played around with it yet nor read the manual!

For now guys, thank you very much for taking your spare time to help me, i cant thank you enough. If im ever in your area i'll be sure to knock in to take you out for a pint!

Thanks again, Menz

 

@menz...they look great and I'm glad your ears agree...after all, surely your ears will give the best advice. Its important to remember to stick to the same brand when you buy your center and rears...don't let a salesman tell you otherwirse. If the "timber" of the speakers don't match, the best speakers made can sound like junk. The sub is the exception to the rule though but the speakers MUST be of the same make. I'm glad you made out well! ...Gerry