Subwoofer dilemma

I am looking to buy a subwoofer for a mini home theater experience. I am looking for something up to $200-250. Any suggestions. I found a sony, polk and yamaha under or around 200. which one is better for my budgeted home theater system do you guys and girls think?

the Polk PSW10

Yamaha 8" 120-Watt Powered Subwoofer

Sony 12" 150-Watt Powered Subwoofer

 

the polk is only a 50 powered sub, will do good bass, but there is always better. i have the polk psw404 and got mine for 300 even.
there are others, but depends on what you are really looking for. i personally don't like the sony or yamaha speakers, but its your choice. look into klipsch, velodyne, or cerwin vega (the ones who actually make only speakers) stay away from other brands that make everything else, including speakers... like sony, yamaha, pioneer..etc.

 

yes, after doing a bit of research i decided to go with the Mirage Omni S10 from Vann's for half price it was a steal i think, can't wait to get my hands on this puppy and see how it performs.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/549709556

this is where the sale is at, i don't know for how long though.

You are right and i have heard as well that it is better to get a brand that does specilize only in a certain product line. thanx

 

wow, drops down to 21hz. not to shabby
always remember, turn your gain all the way up on the sub and the frequency all the way down, use the receiver to control sub volume and frequency for best results.

 

well, this being my 1st subwoofer purchase,I don't know what to expect either, but i read good reviews on the avs forum and the price itself what enticed me to purchase it. I appreciate your tips and opinion. Is there any add'l tips you can throw at me like positionning, wiring, what cables. Also u mention to control the sub from the receiver I have a rather older receiver Pioneer VSX 710,is it possible to control the sub much from there, I am planing to upgrade the receiver to 1015s but tha this after i get my big screen TV. thanx in advance

 

well, i dont know much about pioneer receivers, but i will tell you i dont like them at all (but thats my opinion)
what i meant by controlling the sub from your receiver is by volume. any respectable receiver will have volume (gain/level) adjustments for each individual channel.
i personally have the yamaha rx-v1500 a/v receiver, this thing absolutely blows my last one away in all areas, power, channels, options, looks, weight, size of amps, you name it.
anyway, if you do shop for a receiver, look for things like flexability, weight, options (looks, if your into it, but sometimes looks arent everything.
i was looking at the onkyo txsr 702 before i bought the yammy. plus, it all depends on what your willing to spend for a receiver. i'd say dont skimp out on a receiver cuz you will get what you pay for in the end. as far as speaker wiring goes, follow the golden rule, less then 50 feet, 16 gauge will do, if over 50 feet, go lower, to like 14 or even 12 gauge wire. speaker placement all depends on your room configurations really, you have to play with them. golden rule here too, all speaker should be placed at ear level and pointing towards the listening position. but sometimes room configurations dont allow it and again, most respectable receivers will adjust for those limitations. the onkyo is on sale at circuit city online for about 560 bucks, not a bad price for a 700 watt 7 channel receiver, and it has a room set up mic included. most do now, but in the 500 dollar range and over (keep that in mind). also, make sure it has enough inputs and outputs for what you will connect to it, like dvd player, cable or satelite, cd player, tape player, vcr (thing of the past), other audio and video equipment. cables are really just cables, but stay away from the cheapy ones, ones that come with equipment are the worst. monster is over priced and over rated in my opinion. i have accoustic research cables in my set up, but also have HDMI to DVI cables too (from my dvd player to widescreen)
any more questions, feel free to ask, i love this kinda stuff.

 

Mirage makes no junk at all...prices run from moderate to through the roof; I have mirage all the way around (except my sub). I have a suggestion depending on how much time you have to wait. Every March, I buy my new toys at a Tweeter in the financial district of Philly (but they have Tweeters everywhere). As a rule, I don't care for Tweeter very much but every March when all the new models come out, Tweeter all but gives away the old stuff. In Philly anyway, Tweeter's gets a pretty wealthy crowd and no one is going in there to buy last year's models; how they can sell it so cheap without taking a loss is beyond me but they do. If you can wait until March for a new AVR or speakers, you can get something twice as good for the same money and they're not floor models...if one is willing to take the chance on floor models (which I'm not) you can save even more or get astonishing equipment for near peanuts. So too, if there is anything wrong and you still have your proof of purchase, they don't fix anything; they simply give you a new one. I'm no fan of that store under normal circumstances but in March when new models come out, you won't find better deals anywhere. I mention this because Tweeter handles the entire Mirage line and Mirage is no exception; when the new models come out, you can get the old stock for a song. I don't think the deals were just for that one store, I think it's all their stores, but not certain about that.

(Gear, was nice to read your posts again. I haven't forgetten about sending you that site but have been away for the last week)...Gerry

 

@ meltstorm
i also forgot to add, if you demo receivers, (which is the way to go)
listen to in in stereo, if it sounds good that way, it will rock in home theater.
also, the heavier the better.

@ gerry
thanks for the kind comments

 

I appreciate the valuable info Gear79, I read good reviews on that Yamaha, but I also read good reviews on the Pioneer 1015(i know not your brand), and there are few other receivers in that range. For some reason I have always been a pioneer fan, maybe staying too long w/ what u know in a shell makes u miss to taste other sweets, if you know what i mean. I will just have to test the receivers which will be determined by the $ i plan to spend. better in person and go from there, i know the rule of thumb that when a receiver is very heavy it is good, well the brand depends too in my opinion. Onkyo, for some reason I was never a big fan of.

I think on the end it all comes down to personal taste and preference.I would surely not buy somethng just for the looks of it, performance,options is what matters the most and reliability also. I am expecting the Mirage sub to arrive next Monday, can't wait!!

By the way brand cables, i also think are over rated, I mean monster monster,everybody is talking about them like the apple ipod, but the excess they charge just does not justify it for me and my tight budget.

I have 2 old Pioneer speakers, they have served me well so far, i mean for what i use them, mostly music anyway. I am thinking should I start saving for a new set of speakers or just buy additional for the surround experience? I know there are many brands just making spekears and prices can be very sky high as well, u get what u pay. what brand, model speakers can you recommend maybe a center and surround only,of course not too stepp on the price side,something in the 200-400 range, or is it better to get the same brand to make a set.

I appreciate all the information you have taking the time to share.

 

Hi Meltstorm! I had to throw my two cents in when I read your last post. Unless you're someone with gear's skill and know-how, you really want to stay away from mixing different brands of speakers (your sub, fortunately can be the exception to the rule). I've seen so many guys make expensive mistakes. Stick not only to the same brand but even to the same series within that brand. Lets say you see some top of the line Polk towers on sale and bought them. Some time later, you see some top on the line Mirage rears so you buy them. What you have is four of the best speakers your money can buy but they sound like crap when you connect them to the AVR. Transition from fronts to rears will be choppy and really noticable. Same is true for the center. Unless you're really savvy, stick to the same brand and series. Gear suggested "building" a system and I couldn't agree with him more. Invest in a good set of fronts or rears and use them with your pioneers. It may sound off-balance until you can afford to buy the matching pair but go for quality you can build on as time passes.

Also, you indicated that you listen to a lot of music too and that has some bearing on the speakers you choose. They make some small speakers that are astounding, that is true, but a lot of AVRs, when the front speakers are switched to "small" will change the way that the sub is used; the sound may still be of a very high quality, but sounds from the upper end of the lower registers will come from the sub and while the sound quality is still good, some sound will seem to be coming from the wrong direction entirely. The sound coming from your sub should (for the most part) be non-directional; when other sound starts coming from your sub it can be a little weird. DVDs and effects will still sound fine but strictly music can be strangely affected. I'm sure gear could explain this better that I have!

 

well, i agree with matching speakers, i personally have 2 paradigm tower speakers, both have 3 woofers, with a mid and a 1 tweeter, i got these for cheap, so i have not changed them out yet, but really rock the louder i turn it up. the rest is all matching polk audio speakers, a csi30 for the center, and the rm series for the rears and sides. its a never ending battle with speakers for me, i always want more and my wife wants less. like the space these speakers take up, she already does not like my set up, but will sure as hell listen to the stereo or cd's while i am at work, i know, cuz my settings are always switched to something different.
anyway, buy a matched set of speakers for smooth transitioning of sounds. plus, if you dont, some speakers may be rated at 6 ohms, while others are at 8 ohms, so you want to make sure firstly that they are all the same ohms and can also handle the amps power output. meaning, if the amp does a 100 watts a channel, better to buy speakers rated at 110 watts a channel. you can run lower wattage speakers, but you cant crank the volume or risk distortion and later speaker death.
whats your exact budget for a receiver (if you do buy) and speaker set price range?
oh, by the way, that onkyo i told you about, i'd buy that one if i had the chance again.... but keep my yammy for my main room.
here's what i know on speakers i've looked at
infinity speakers are crisp and clear, but don't provide much depth.
sony is just cheap, so are the yamaha speakers, but that all in one speaker they have that is a complete surround sound by just 1 speaker is impressive, with an impressive price tag. its the yamaha YSP-1000
Digital Sound Projector
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/YSP1/index.htm
cerwin vega (mostly subs) too boomy for me)
veloyne (again subs) very nice IMO
i used to have pioneer speakers, but in my car, i liked em, but not in home theater.
i really love klipsch and definitive technology speakers (i think i will buy those sooner or later)

this is what i would do if i were you. spend the time to listen and do your homework. demo everything, keeping in mind, your room will sound different then their room, but its a good starting point. buy and very good center channel, as most of your sound will come from there anyway, get one that has 2 drivers and a tweeter and the bare minimum. you can get you some junky sides for the time being, or use what you have now, then transfer the junky sides to your surrounds. then save some more and get you matching surrounds and sides for the full effect. i will tell you, i love my speakers, but there is always something better. go to polk audios web site, they have a drawing for a free set of speakers, worth a shot, hell, free is free.
here is my receiver
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/receivers/RXV1500.htm
here is the onkyo i wanted
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Onky...99813/catOid/-12949/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do
here is polk's link to the give away
http://www.polkaudio.com/winspeakers/index.php
my center
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/csi30/
my sub
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/individual/subwoofers/psw404/

my surrounds and sides
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rt35i/

but i wanted this set (for my wife, cuz mine are too big she says)
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rm6000/
(its these speakers, minus the sub, but 2 subs would be cool)
my towers, click the 100 series to the far right.
http://www.paradigm.com/Website/SiteReferenceProduct/RModels/StudioSeries/StudioSpecs.html



anyway, to make a long story short, if i had my speakers in your house, it would sound different, no doubt. you just need to listen and try, you can always return them if not happy, just do it quickly. anyway, good luck, i have rambled on long enough.

 

Gear79

Thanx for the info.I am a picky person, well when i can afford it i mean . I always tend to search, read and compare things before making a right choice, with the infromation you shared I can use it to my advantage when comparing and testing different options before making a decision. Since my sub is on its way i was wondering if i would get a decent sound from hooking it up with my front pioneer speakers when watching movies, or i should get a center speaker and surround speakers as soon as possible.

 

at least get a center channel, because all your dialogue and effects will emit from your 2 fronts only and will sound very weird. the sub will be fine, but may over power the front speakers, in which case, just lower the sub volume, preferably at the receiver, but if not, then at the sub itself.
what did you think of my setup?
i was bored at work, so i had the time to look them all up and copy and paste.
i forgot to add, i also have a Hitachi 57" wide screen, but as soon as i build my next house, i will go prejector for the theater room, and get flat panels for every other room, and the bulky wide screen will go in my game room.
before i close, i just ran a search on that receiver you want.......... not to burst your bubble, but the THD is very high on that receiver......... ugh, not good buddy 1% @ 6ohms and 1% @ 8ohms ouch !
is this the one?
http://www.pioneer-eur.com/eur/product_detail.jsp?product_id=10532&taxonomy_id=42-98
the lower the THD, the better.........
i believe mine is at .07% @ 8ohms


edit for typo

 

Gear79

Your set up is indeed very nice,but not my wallet range as of yet(too many other things to purchase)but i will do my researching,poking around and hopefully when i stumble on a good deal i will make my move.I will keep to the rule and make a speaker set with the same brand/series, I already checked Mirage's website and there is a electronic store that carries them here in town, I am going to check it out demo them and go from there.

The Pioneer you looked at is the one I was talking about, this being the European version I doubt there is much difference from the North American one besides the voltage .All is not written in stone,once I get to the phase of getting a newer receiver I will be debating if it will be a pioneer or something else,but like I said before, I have been using this brand for a long time and its kind of difficult to depart, I still have an old pioneer 5 series, can't recall exactly the model number right now, but i bought it in 1995, dolby pro-logic, no dts though,and it still serves me well, that is when they were still made in japan .

gerry1 was mentioning a Tweeter upscale electronic store in the east coast, me being in the west coast there is a chain that is owned by Tweeter based mostly for the western states and I will stop by there and see if the have that kind of sale sometime this or next year or just to see what kind of gear they carry, I am not in a rush, time is flying fast as it is.

My next dillema is a widescreen tvbut i know that is for a different forum link,but man is that going to be a pain deciding with what to go. You mentioned you have a Hitachi 57',I assume its rear projection,right? Lately i have noticed Hitachi to be coming iwth a fresh line of products, plasmas,rp tv's. How is the picture quality on those, are they reliable, I thought a DLP TV will do it for me, but reading forums, people are complainig how they're sets of different brands seem to fail them too soon. This "HD" technology is still in its premature stages i fell and it pushes me from making my decision as to what to get.

Once again i appreciate your input and advice and will look for it in the future as well.

 

yeah, my tv is a rear projection. the quality of my video is amazing, but i am running an upconversion dvd player with an HDMI cable, so its resolution is 1080i (interlaced)
i am not very sharp on tv, but i hear and read samsung has a better tv on the market right now. i'd prefer a dlp tv over a plasma any day, but the prices are still to high. i paid $3k for my tv, but it was unique to the store. where most rp tv's have 3 guns and 4 lenses, mine has 5.
back to your receiver, i personally would not buy due to the THD (total harmonic distortion) its awfully high at the rated ohms. i'd be looking for .8 or less, but its your choice.
take a peek at that onkyo i mentioned, the txsr-702. you can always buy, then return if not happy, or, return it, then re-buy it at an open box value...

 

Gear79

Over the weekend i checked out the Onkyo you mentioned. It has plenty of futures to consider, i also like some of the Yamaha models I saw,but then again i still have time to consider since receiver decision is not that imminent. friend of mine gave me a set of central and surround sound speakers, pioneer too,I hooked them up and for my intro set up, sound is actually not that bad, i get the subwoofer today so will see how it will rock my house tonight

I plan to go with a DLP as well,but I am still waiting to get my heart set on a model that I actually like, they seem to upgrade more or less like windows update, there is always something new or improved on the next set model, that is why i find it difficult commiting to a set as of yet

thanks for all your info and advice once again.

 

no problem, let me know. i'm curious on that sub you will get.

 

now that i have had the mirage in my hands for few days, i can gladly say that i made a good choice buying it. even though its still in its "break in" process, man did it add a punch to my movie and music listening. Now I find myself hooked on it the sound is very thight, the auto future on the sub is great,it turns on once it gets the signal, it sure shakes the house down,i am still trying to locate the good spot in the room, but do to the size of the room,placement is kind of limited, right now I have it next to my front right speaker.

 

bass radiates, so placement is not as critical as your other speakers. room limiting, and cable lenght, you will just have to find a good spot. mine sits in the front, next to my left tower, but really, i am limited to that spot only. i have a 2 year old that runs around, drives his motor driven quad 4 all over the house, and thats the only spot its protected. glad you like your purchase. it seems that it was worth your research and wait......... all your purchases should be that way. now, it makes you want to watch all your movies over again, just to [bold]hear and feel[/bold] them.
thats what i did.
keep up posted when you upgrade some more.
also, remember to turn your gain up, frequency down, and if possible, set your crossover frequency (if your receiver allows it) to 80hz.. thats THX specs for LFE
i did an auto set up in mine last night, it set the sub volume to -8.5 and still shakes the room.

 

indeed, over the weekend i was watching some of my favorite sci-fi and action movies just to hear those walls rattle, the subwoofer brings so much more life to the sound of a movie, it tells you when something exciting happens.I have a Pioneer vsx 711 that i am using when watching movies, it does have Crossover control and LFE attenuator as well (has options for 0 and 10 only), i think the crossover goes only 100,150 and 200. I am reading the manual extensively and working the diffeent options for optimal use.

P.S. last night i was watching hellboy and batman begins, i can just say wowi wonder how it will all sound once i upgrade to better speakers