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Swap Trick Without Swap Magic, etc.

Discussion in 'PS2 - Software boot discussion' started by krTsukasa, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. krTsukasa

    krTsukasa Member

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    Ok, I've read everyware that in order to play backup/import games on a new ps2 slimline, you need either a mod-chip or a boot disc like swap magic. I read about the tape and tissue mod, and tried it out on my friend's ps2 slimline( XD i don't have one of my own). Anyway, I found that I could quite easily boot CD-R backups of PSX games without any kind of swap magic type boot disc.

    The process itself was easy. All i had to do was turn the ps2 on with a original psx game in it and close the cover. The ps2 os screen shows up (the one with the swirling background), and then fades out when it loads the disc. Once the screen fades out, open the disc cover, this will cause the disc brake to slow the disc (the disc won't completely stop because the motor is still trying to spin the disc). Because the brake slows the disc down, the ps2 won't be able to continue loading the disc but will keep trying (note: this all must be done between when the swirling ps2 os screen fades out and the classic psx logo fades in). I'm not sure how long the ps2 will try to load the disc for, though it will be plenty long enough to do this. Anyway, next you remove the psx disc and put the CD-R backup. Close the cover (which will release the brake) and the disc will spin up to full speed and load. The classic playstation screen will show up and the game will load normally (though i noticed that it will take a little longer at the psx logo before the game actually loads).

    By using this method, I was able to play many CD-R backups of PSX games. I do not have any copies of ps2 games to test, but i would assume that it would work the same (only with an original ps2 game to boot from instead of an original psx game).

    Anyway, i no longer have my friend's ps2 with me, so i can't test anything else with this method. Has anyone else used this method to play burned games, and if so, does it have limitations that the swap magic type boot discs don't (like for instance, could you play a multi-disc game with this method, as long as you put the original game back in for a short time before the backup).

    Um, anyway, I am thinking about buying myself a slim ps2, but i was wondering whether this method works for everything or whether i should buy either a swap magic or a mod-chip so i can play backups on it. What are the advantages and disadvantages of each method?

    btw, srry for such a long post. Lol, i do that a lot.
     
  2. WolfDude

    WolfDude Guest

    I'll try that, hopefuly I won't have to use a Swap Magic disk.
     
  3. mengsbu52

    mengsbu52 Guest

    Hey! i've heard that before but never knew how to back up games to try it. maybe i'll try now i know how to back up games.
     
  4. rev1

    rev1 Member

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    I was doing this all last night, and I must say it works perfectly - every single time.

    When you power on the PS2 with a real PS1 disc inserted, an easy trick to know the precise moment when you want to make the swap with a back-up or homebrew PS1 CD-R, is simply watch your TV screen.
    After the initial PS2 'cloud swirling' screen disappears and your screen goes black, the PS1 driver boots the PS1 bios (Don't quote me on this as I'm no expert, just assuming this is what it's doing) and the screen flickers for a very brief moment (it happens fast, so just keep your eye on the screen, to ensure you don't miss it). Immediately after that flicker/screen switch occurs, you perform the swap.

    I don't have an extensive library of PS1 titles left in my collection (I've held onto my copies of a few gems, like the original Resident Evil, Silent Hill and Final Fantasy games) but it work using every title I tested it with, to boot every back-up I have, including an NES emulator designed to run on the PS1 hardware. The swap also worked with my original PS1 Gameshark CDX version 3.3 and Action Replay cheat discs.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    There is an alternative method to doing this that I kind of accidentally stumbled upon trying to get this technique to work using a PS2 CD-based game to boot a PS2 CD-R back-up. The principal is the same, but I sort of prefer this method as there is no need to worry about the timing of the screen flicker or swapping during disc load up.
    Instead of using PS2 software, I tried the technique using PS1 discs, and it worked.

    Power on your PS2 as you normally would, only with no disc inserted in the system. When the 'Browser/System Configuration' screen appears, enter the 'Browser' option using the X button on your controller.
    [Anyone with a Playstation 2 should be very well with this process, as it's the system's internal menu where you access your Memory Card to delete saves and such, and can also be used to boot your game/dvd/audio discs from.]
    When the new screen opens (the 'Browser' screen), use the Eject button as you normally would and insert any actual PS1 disc (I used this with my old Chrono Cross disc; but all of them worked when I tested it).
    Following the 'Reading disc...' message at the bottom of the screen, a black disc icon will appear. Now is when you can perform your swap (just use whatever method you use for swapping discs WITHOUT using the 'Eject' button).
    With the back-up now in place of the original disc, just highlight the black disc icon in the 'Browser' window (in the upper right hand corner it should say 'Playstation DISC') and press the X button to load the game.
    The back-up should boot directly.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    I haven't tested it personally but I've read that this is supposed to work for booting DVDR's with PS2 DVD format game discs (The gold bottomed DVD discs, used for the majority of PS2 games, like FF X and Metal Gear Solid 2).
    However, it doesn't seem to work (on my PS2 anyway)with booting PS2 CD format back-ups from an original PS2 CD format game disc(the CD-based blue bottomed discs, such as Half-Life or The Sims 2)or even an original PS1 CD game.

    I'm trying to find out a way to do this (I'd love to be running SNES STATION on my PS2 right now to play all those great old titles).
    I know there are the Mod-Chip and Swap Magic and Gameshark 2-type swap disc options, but I want to see if there's any way to do it simply using regular titles (either PS2 CD or DVD, or PS1 CD).
     
  5. mengsbu52

    mengsbu52 Guest

    where did u get ur SNES Station rev 1? if u have a link for a download and a tutorial of how to burn it would be appreciated.
     
  6. mengsbu52

    mengsbu52 Guest

    oops, i meant ur NES emulator but both would be cool
     
  7. rev1

    rev1 Member

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    Sure mengsbu52 :)
    Of course, the best way to always get more concise info on either of these is to perform a simple 'google' search with those keywords.
    There are a lot of great guides and tutorials. Over the years, the homebrew scene has gotten a lot of great titles to quench those with a nostalgic thirst for the games of yester-year.

    SNES STATION: http://snes-station.gamebase.ca/index.htm
    [NOTE: This is for use on the PS2 hardware only.]
    It's been some time since this one has seen any updates so it's anyone's guess whether it's still being developed or supported. It is the most popular (I think it's regarded the best of these types of emulators).Anyhow, the latest version can be found at their homepage (above).

    imbNES: http://imbnes.gamebase.ca/
    [NOTE: This can be used on either the original PSX or the PS2.]
    My personal experience has been better with the PS2. My guess is the more powerful hardware, as well as the extra added Playstation 1 driver options of the PS2; such as faster disc reading.
    This is a pretty accurate piece of software. Speed and sound are very well emulated.
     
  8. mengsbu52

    mengsbu52 Guest

    thanks rev 1. this was very helpful. hope to see more smiley faces like yours in these forums. ;P
     
  9. mengsbu52

    mengsbu52 Guest

    oh one more thing rev 1.... how do i burn this to a CD to run on my ps2? is there a specific software i need or do i just burn it as a data disc. i dont know how to burn a cd for the ps2. im sorta new to back ups and burning. any help is appreciated.
     
  10. krTsukasa

    krTsukasa Member

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    What is going to be on the CD u want to burn? If it's a PSX backup, then just treat it as a standard data CD and i think it should work. If it's a PS2 backup, then I really don't know, I have to look that up sometime. Are most PS2 games on Dual-Layer DVD's or Single-Layer ones? Is there a utility to compress Dual-Layer ones to fit a Single-Layer DVD (like with DVD-Shrink, but for PS2 games)?
     
  11. mengsbu52

    mengsbu52 Guest

    it's the SNES and NES Emulators for the ps2 krTsukasa, i wanned to know how i write those to a cd to play on my ps2.
     
  12. mengsbu52

    mengsbu52 Guest

    okay. i downloaded cdrwin from the link provided but it wont run on my system!.... it says no devices installed! where can i get the device to record from it?
     
  13. mengsbu52

    mengsbu52 Guest

    oh i got one more question rev 1. i downloaded the snes file from the snes link is that all i need to burn or do i have to download the roms seperately? man o man am i lost. i really wanna get this done but im confused. could u help please. like could u tell me what i need to download (roms and emus, what to use to burn it to "CD" not "DVD", and how to burn it).any help will be appreciated.
     
  14. rev1

    rev1 Member

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    You're welcome mengsbu :) Just glad to hopefully be of some help.

    Okay... it's important to understand the difference between the two programs:

    imbNES (the NES emulator) was designed to run off the original Playstation's hardware (PSX and PSone). As such, it will run on both the old Playstation andPlaystation 2 hardware, since the latter supports backwards compatibility with the original.
    These are providing you have the means to play back-ups on either of these systems.

    The method(s) described by krTsukasa in his first post here, and the other described in my own, are tricks you can use to run back-up Playstation discs on your system without the use of a modchip, Swap Magic, or Gameshark 2/Action Replay disc(s). All you need is any original PS ONE game disc, demo disc, or cheat disc (GameShark for PSone for example) disc to boot your PS ONE format CD-R's, which is what the imbNES disc would be.
    The only uncommon thing you'd need is a slide card tool (if it's an older model [bulky] Playstation 2. I have a slimline PStwo also but I haven't and probably won't be messing with that one since it's the newer of the two systems. There are methods as I've seen a good amount of easy to use guides on how this is done, so if this is the kind of system you own, just search in browser), which you can make yourself right at home, using something as simple as an old credit card. Otherwise, it's pretty straight forward - though many would agree that there are far better alternatives to getting your PSone back-ups to run on your PS 2.

    This one can easily be up and running by tonight with the use of the tutorial which can be found here:
    http://imbnes.gamebase.ca/help.html

    I was fortunated enough to find an old Action Replay(this one says it's a version 4.20) disc that doesn't need the little memory card-like insert for the original PSone that also works for using cheats with PSone titles on a PS2 (something my Gameshark CDX v3.3 for PSone didn't allow) last night.

    This one still requires a swap trick but luckily the AR disc stops spinning when you have to perform disc changes unlike when using the the tricks mentioned above.

    Great alternative and boots the imbNES without flaw.

    However, using the one's describes above won't require you to purchase anything so long as you have any old PSone games laying around. While the good thing is, it won't void your warranty the way having to disassemble and open your PS2 does, the only thing that you must ask yourself to seriously consider is the risks it presents through the prolonged wear and tear of using this in the long run. So take caution and and just be gentle with your system if you're using it.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    SNES STATION... is a separate matter. I know for a fact that it works... but... I personally haven't gotten this running on my system yet simply because I don't have the means to play Playstation 2 CD based back-ups.

    The SNES STATION, unlike the imbNES is software designed for use on Playstation 2 hardware but not original PSone hardware.
    That's the difference between the two of them, so the same method you'd use to boot your imbNES won't apply for this one because SNES STATION is software designed specifically for the PS2 driver.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    I haven't yet gotten the chance to purchase any SWAP MAGIC-type discs and I don't think I'll be getting my system fitted with any Modchips or the like; so I've just been searching for alternative means to boot PS2 CD based back-ups.
    I picked up a Gameshark 2 (for clarification's sake, the CD formatted one without the dongle for use with Playstation 2 games) that says on the disc's label side that it's a version 1.1, which from what I've been researching is an alternative that can be used to do this. However, this GameShark 2 for some reason auto-ejects the disc tray when you're supposed to perform the swap, which it is my understanding (I could be severely wrong... I'm very new to this myself, so don't quote me on this) that this is a feature that hadn't come along until the version 3 and up GameShark 2's, which I think[I'm looking into this even now as I'm typing this :) ] is said not to be able to be used in the manner the version 2 and lower one's to perform swaps.

    I just don't understand the indiscrepency between the version # that's printed on the label of the disc, and the behavior of a version 3 that it does when using it. It was purchased only two days ago brand new, so I imagine it's actually just a later version with the wrong version number printed on it.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sorry if that was irrelevant or confusing, but I just wanted to be sure that I'd stated that I had not yet gotten the SNES STATION to work... yet ;).
    By all means though, don't allow my own personal experiences discourage you however.

    There are ways to do it... I just personally don't have them at my disposal at the moment.

    So trust me do a little research of your own and find out what you feel is the best route you want to take with your own console.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    As for actually burning these...

    Well, I personally tested both CDRWIN (there's a trial version you can download) and the NERO software (that came bundled with my CD burner) - and both work perfectly.

    For imbNES the tutorial found in the link above will explain from start to finish how to create the image file you will use to burn to a disc using the ROMBANK utility that comes with the imbNES download folder.

    For SNES STATION, the homepage has a step-by-step 'how-to' .pdf format guide (found in the Downloads section) in creating your disc.
    Again, for this one you simply need to find the means to play back-up PS2 CD formatted discs.
    Also, it's worth mentioning that I have heard(read) testimony of people using this with DVD back-ups. So again, there are ways... it's just finding them (and I don't have a DVD recorder in my possesion so I can't use this one myself).

    Well, hope this helps somewhat :)

    As for the CDRWIN question... I think it's simply looking for the CD burner on your computer's system.
    Well, it's not my place to ask such a personal question, but I ask in hopes that I can assist you with this, so I was just wondering if you owned a CD burner/writer(?)
    If not, it would be essential in burning the discs.

    Otherwise, I'm not sure if maybe the software just isn't compatible with your CD writer.

    Well, copyrighted material is illegal... so I unfortunately am unable to assist you with the question regarding the roms. My apologies. Unless you actually own the original games, it's prohibited.
    Well, I won't bog you down with the legal jargon. That's something that I have to leave at your discretion though ;).
    But there are a wealth of sites that provide games developed by the "homebrew" scene and are rather easy to find.

    On that note, it would also be fair to mention that if you actually do own the original carts... then it's perfectly alright for you to have as many back-ups of it as you wish :)...

    Well, good luck I hope this helps somewhat... and if I have any luck in getting the SNES STATION running (without the use of SWAP MAGIC), then I'll surely be more than happy to let you know and help in any way I can.

    There are a lot more experienced folks out there (I just got into this about a week ago myself), so I can't stess it enough: 'google, google, google' - you'll be surprised what you can find.
     
  15. mengsbu52

    mengsbu52 Guest

    thans rev 1. u helped alot. dont worry im staying legal and tryna use the games i originally own. but for the writer i have. its a cd/dvd writer. think u got any ideas? thanks.
     
  16. krTsukasa

    krTsukasa Member

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    Well, it sounds like u do have a cd burner. I don't know much about CDRWin, but just try downloading something else. If u ever need to burn ISO images (CD or DVD), DVD Decrypter is an excellent and simple program (yes, it will burn CD Images). When I say it's simple, i mean for burning disc images, decrypting dvd's however takes a little more work. As for roms, if u are looking for any, Emuparadise.org is a great site to find them, but remember, it's illegal if u don't own the original game. The only thing about that site is that the PSX iso section has a few ads that... aren't very appropriate. Oh, and if u have a program with a firewall (like Norton Internet Security), u need to disable it in order to start a download there (but once u start it, u can re-enable it).
     
  17. krTsukasa

    krTsukasa Member

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    Oh, just checked the imbNES website. It looks like it creates a disc image for you to burn. Burn it with DVD Decrypter, it should work perfectly. I'm not sure about SNES Station because it doesn't say on the site how it works. I assume it works in the same way, so DVD Decrypter should work well.
     
  18. rev1

    rev1 Member

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    Sorry for the late response. :/

    Hopefully you've been able to get at least imbNES up and running (it's the easier of the two) but just in case, I'll go ahead and post to see if I can help any :).

    It's exactly as you said krTsukasa:
    The ROMBANK utility that comes in the imbNES bundle creates an image that can be burned directly to a cd and booted using whatever method you use to get PS1 back-ups to run on either system (be it PS1 or PS2). It's pretty straight forward so I'm sure you guys have already gotten through the process of creating your disc image (ISO) with no problems at all and are enjoying all those pixelated goodies of the past even now as I'm typing this, but I'll go over it just in case.

    Creating the ISO/IMAGE with ROMBANK to be burned to your disc

    Once you've unzipped the contents of the imbNES download, simply go to the directory on your computer you opened it in and run the file named ROMBANK.
    In the very upper left hand corner is the tab labeled 'Add/Remove Roms'. From there you can select either an entire folder containing whatever NES roms you have collected/made(whatever) or add each rom one by one.
    Go ahead and add all the roms you want included on your disc.

    From there you can utilize the next tab to the right of that labeled 'Sort Roms' to do just that... sort your roms in the order you want them to display on the emulator's main menu.
    I checked the box called 'By Menu Name' and hit the little AZ icon (which sorts them alphabetically) and it seems to have worked just fine when I run the emulator; sorting them by the title of the game. I didn't try the 'By Rom Directory' option so I couldn't honestly tell you if there's any difference in the way it sorts them.

    Now I'm no expert and my technical expertise in all things programming wise are severely lacking - but for this next portion I think this is the basic concept of how this part of the ROMBANK functions. If there's anyone who can better clarify how this works, then please feel more than welcome to post any corrections in regards to it.

    The tab that says 'Roms Filters' has a portion that says 'IMBNES SUPPORTED MAPPERS'... I believe what this means is something along the lines of the way the emulator generates the graphics within the environment created to replicate the NES's hardware using the PS2.
    So I'm thinking the 'mappers' reference how the sprites and such for the 'cartridges' are generated...
    To the right there is a numerical list (it says: '0;1;2;3...' and so on).
    I think these are the mappers that the original NES hardware had, but I think there are some that may have not made it in when the latest build was updated by the developer, for whatever reason (technical or otherwise... maybe just as the updates were made and the figured out more and more, the working mappers were being added).

    Anyhow, this will determine if the rom(s) you have added to list feature the correct mappers supported by the emulator, and will sift out the one's that are unsupported so you don't end up with any on the disk that are just not going to work (or work properly because certain mappers that the actual NES console may have are missing/not included for support with the emulator).
    Well, from there, just click the small box icon to the right that reads 'Removes unsupported ROMS from the list' and it will update your list if necessary by deleting anything that the ROMBANK determines is incompatible with the imbNES emulator.

    ...You're almost there.

    In the bottom left hand corner is the 'Build IMBNES ISO' tab.
    Click that, then choose your region to match your PS2 console (be it US, Japan, or Europe) and click the Build ISO tab.

    It will create two separate files called named 'nes' in the same folder as the ROMBANK utility (these are your bin/cue images that you will burn to the disk).

    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Burning the ISO/IMAGE you just created to a disc

    I'm sure you can use whichever recommended programs and methods used to make PS1 back-ups (CDRWIN being one of them). Pretty much anything that burn bin/cue/iso images properly for use on a PS1 (or in this case a PS2 also)

    I went the CDRWIN (my trial version is 4.0C) route, so I'll explain how I did it for my disc.

    Open CDRWIN, from the little menu that opens, select the 'Record Disc' option.
    From this menu, click the 'Load Cue Sheet' and find and select the .cue file created by ROMBANK. It will give you a little message saying 'Compiling CueSheet... Please Wait' and once it finishes loading, that's it! :) You're all set to create your disc.
    Now if you have the full version of the program, be sure to use a slower recording speed (the trial version only allows you to burn at a 4x speed, which is perfect to make the disc. Otherwise, for any program you use, just choose a low speed. I'm sure some have been able to do it at faster speeds, but I just went with the recommended lower one and it worked perfectly the first time).

    Make sure the blank disc is inserted in the burner and click 'Record Disc'...

    Boot the back-up disc you just created using whatever method you use to boot PS1 back-ups (such as the one's we were talking about in here)...

    And you're all set to enjoy all that wonderful 8-bit goodness of the original NES on your PS1/PS2 :)

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm still trying to figure out getting a SNES STATION (well PS2 CD format back-up in general) boot procedure working for myself (guess it's going to have to be the tried and true methods that are already known because the GameShark 2 I have isn't the correct version:/...so it's either I find an old one, get an exploit running... or spring for SWAP MAGIC...)... so as soon as I find a way, I'll be happy to help if you're still having trouble getting it going yourself by then.

    Well this may be useless but I just wanted to post how I got it going for me, just in case you still needed a little help with it.
    If you still experience any problems getting this to work for you just post your questions anytime and I'll see if I can be of any help to you at all in getting it running :).

    Well, Good Luck and Take Care! (and please feel free to let me know if you've got it running already or are able to)

     
  19. mengsbu52

    mengsbu52 Guest

    alryte thanks krTsukasa and rev 1. u too have been very helpful, and ind unlike others on different boards. you ask too many questions and they start to get mad.lol. ne wayz i got DVD Decrypter from the freeware site. i didnt know u can burn ISOs to cd with DVD Decrypter. im gonna go try it right now. lets hope i can do it right, i am down to one last CD blank and i cant buy any more for a few days. (dont have time.) Cross your Fingers for me,
     
  20. mengsbu52

    mengsbu52 Guest

    Hey you guys...It Worked!!!!! thanks for all da help. if u guys get the SNES Station Running on CD-R let me know. thanks the help.
     

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