The Truth and lies about bad media

there ya go...... Narnia! I forgot how to post images and had a hard time doing it but I prevailed! LOL Taiyo Yuden forever! that's all I use!

 

@ LOCO

So far I really like it. I have only burn a couple backups so far, but the scan results are real good. I tried scanning with the NEC and end up with poor scan results, not a bad burn, just poor scanning ability of the NEC drive, whereas the Benq will give a better scan of the same disc.

For the money, great buy. You will like the 1655.

 

You can't go wrong with a benq drive (stay away from the 1670, they changed the chipset) and MCC or TY media. If you like spending more money you can go with a plextor drive although imho they are not any better than benq's. Just my 2 cents.

 

I'll add another 2 cents.......

 

Sickley,

Your first post had a lot more truth in it than most people will acknowledge. Not all discs are the same quality; but if the firmware is tuned properly, many of the "bad" discs will perform much better unless there is a mechanical problem or process problem. (Tilt is a big problem, and it is plaguing printable discs from many manufacturers.) Firmware updates DO NOT necessarily fix a problem with a particular disc--that only happens if the firmware version actually addresses that disc. "I updated firmware; the disc still doesn't work; the disc is crap" is not a logical conclusion unless one is positive that the disc's MID code was added to the write strategy table and one can prove a particular parameter is out of spec. Members of this forum claim you can't go wrong with Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden discs because they are excellent quality. That's good advice. Members also claim other brands are poor quality because so many people have had problems and warn people to stay away from them. That is not always true--most, but not all, problems are related to firmware support.

 

@chris, i mainly burn dvds. however if anyone wants to compare cds its basically the same thing(do so.).

guys guys, what all of you say is only partially true. yes having upgraded machines and drivers and the correct settings will greatly improve burning, but it still doesnt misplace that certain disk manufacturers disks only give good support for certain drives. thats why when you buy a generic brand (not just labeled) its unlikeley to have good results. its also why some people say one brand is great while other people say that same brand is horrible. i will say that yes t.y. disks are the best. but not everyone of us want to go online and buy them, we like the convenience of buying them in stores.

im just sick and tired of all the threads that talk about bad media, when really it has more to do with their drives than their media...

yes im a newb at ad, but that doesnt mean im a newb at burning. im certainly not an expert, simply experienced. thats why im here at a.d. and if the people here want to look down at me because of it then i will gladly leave, this site has not be able to offer me anything that i dont know for about half a year and i spend more time burning than anyone i personally know.

it disapoints me that the newbs, members, and addicts are adding more important things to this thread than the seniors.

 

thanks for your advice joeryan, ill look into it better. then again the only problems i've had were cmc magnetics corporation :X
~sickley

 

creaky ! Well said ! I've learned Something from nearly everyone I've met here at afterdawn.com ! regardless of ststus !From The Grand Wazoo down to the Newest of the New ! And That as Martha Stewart would say " Is a Good THing " Keep up the good work ! ( In Moderation of Course ! LOL!) Smooth Sailing buddy !

 

Reason for the question was Cd freaks thread was for Cd scans. Out of all the media I've used and burners I have scores and longevity comes down to Ty's [ yeah Doc you converted me] and Verbs. The burners I have are Plextor,Nec,Lite On,Benq, Sony,& Samsung.My Plextor 716 is my fav follwed by the Benq. Firmware and media DOES make the difference. My 2 cents Chris

 

hehe, i knew i heard my name mentioned somewhere in there, thanks for the acknowledgement Chris~

as to a "sweeping generalization"...here it goes:

just wanted to add my 2cents to this discussion...

i can't agree enough with creaky on the RELEVANCE of scans and scans alone...the boys over @cdfreaks, they are the REAL "scanning buffs", we have a few members here that enjoy scanning and the such, but for me personally, i have the scans ready if i need to PROVE anything to anyone if they dispute me here...but, even that needs to be taken with the proverbial "grain of salt" i got dozens of scans with ALL my various drives, i basically own at least 1 or more of the major "brands"...ie. Sony, Benq, Liteon, Pioneer, Nec...with my only exception of Plextor (not because it's a bad quality drive, it's one of THE BEST quality drives out there, i just don't own one) hehe

but as you stated Sickley, i will agree that there is NO 100% guaranteed media, but there are MANY that are undisputedly "better quality" media compared to their competitors/other manufacturers~
(Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim MCC quickly come to mind)

whether you want to debate whether a CMC-MAG produced disc will perform as well as a Taiyo Yuden produced disc, i can go on for DAYS only because i HAVE had CMC-MAGs fail on me with SEVERAL DIFFERENT manufactured drives (ie. Liteon, Pioneer, Sony, NEC, Benq, and an old Optorite too) so, it's NOT a question about which drives "support" said media or not...can 6 diff. manufacturers with CURRENT firmware at the time on diff. models, ALL churn out below avg. backup quality scores immediately after the burn and THEN 3 months later deteriorate to the point of NON-PLAYABILITY??? what is the chance of THAT being coincidence??

this is MY own experience, not that of any or all others who STILL believe in the quality (or lack thereof) of POOR quality media and that firmware is THE KEY to successful backups OR finding the "right combination" of burner/media/firmware to produce a decent backup? who in their right mind is willing to go thru ALL that trouble to backup a dvd they own? common sense should dictate that we ALL don't need to possess this "excess knowledge" at our fingertips in order to produce a successful backup~! we common folk EXPECT that when we go out and buy a decent burner, learn how to properly use software to make a backup, and then try some media bought locally to see if we can actually DO IT...that should be the END of it~!

but is it THAT simple? obviously not, you can see by the COUNTLESS threads on AfterDawn that once advice is given as to how to "tweak" the settings on various software burning applications, making sure the firmware for whichever drive is up-to-date, making sure in fact that the person with the issues has a "decent" burner (decent-excellent burners DO NOT have to be expensive, if you can afford a Plextor, by all means, go for it; but my Benq 1640/1650 can produce EQUALLY good quality backups on MY choice of media Taiyo Yuden as ANY plextor user can out there...and my Benq drives were less than $60 shipped each, which is already 1/2 the price of a Plextor)

the reason that I, among many others here, give our PREFERENCES for certain "brands" or manufacturers of media is that because we have EXPERIENCE with them and know what works and what doesn't on OUR particular setups...i myself probably have more diff. kinds of burners than the avg. joe, does that make me an "Expert" about drives, of COURSE NOT! but, it does mean that i CAN try various types of media (which i have...at least about 80%+ of ALL the various media available here in the U.S. i HAVE tried at some point or another...manufacturers ranging from Princo, Optodisc, Prodisc, CMC Magnetics (CMC-MAG), Ritek, Taiyo Yuden, Mitsubishi Chemical Corp. (MCC), TDK (their own "TT" coded media, Philips, smaller manufacturers that FAKE the MID coding of the "bigger/more popular" manufacturers, etc. etc. just to name a few off the top of my head)

there is a DEFINITE difference in quality between the various manufacturers i listed, the dye used is diff. among them as well as the standard of quality control they manufacture/produce to.

lot of variables to consider, i for one don't care to FIND a "supported drive" just to burn onto whichever "brand" media i find in stores locally or online...that's kinda working in REVERSE...shouldn't one BUY A BURNER first, then buy the less-expensive smaller spindles of various medias out there to "try out" to find which works the best for them? who the hell goes out and buys a GRIP LOAD of media, then painstakingly goes thru diff. burners until they find a "supported drive" that will successfully burn their truckload of media for their purposes? that's just downright retarded or you have WAYYY too much money on your hands to be able to afford a new burner each time u find out that the one you just bought isn't "compatible" with your media...

anyways, i'm ranting now...i'm going to leave this as my ONE and only comment to this thread...cdfreaks is KNOWN to be the "boss" of scanning various medias on various drives, that is NOT my cup-of-tea...so, i'll leave it to THEM to do all that work...

have a good one all and may you all find which media SUITS YOUR NEEDS the best in the near future for whichever drive you currently own, not the other way around...

i'll end by saying, you want the HIGHEST [bold] PROBABLE[/bold]compatibility with your current burner? stick with Taiyo Yuden and you will NOT go far wrong...not saying other kinds of media won't work with your drive, but if in doubt, try some TYs and see if your problems still persist after ALL other factors have been addressed (ie. firmware, DMA, enought RAM-memory, proper use of burning programs, burn speed, other setttings relevant to making a backup)

docTY~

 

Well said Doc.

@Sickley

A maxell or memorex (Here forevermore called affectionatley reffered to as M&M's) might burn fine sure, but months down the road wont play at all. Its the quality of the dye man! Sure firmware plays a role, but even if you can burn it, who cares if you can't play it a couple months later?

I made my mistake. Early on, I used nothing but memorex. I swear 9 out of a 15 disc spindle turned into coasters. The 6 that did burn now WILL NOT PLAY! ISO buster can't even fish out those files....

Its not about the burn... Its about down the road do you want to replace your whole backup library because you used those horrible M&M's?

M&M's.... they melt in your burner, not in your hand...

Cheecky little fellows...

 

Okay, the Doc has spoken, we can close this thread, 'nuff said.
Buy good media.

 

I agree that it's the quality of the dye ... but ... you cannot compare Maxell and Memorex discs

Made in Japan DVDs are some of the finest discs made rating right up there with the Taiyo Yuden and Verbatims of the world ... even the made in Taiwan Maxell discs will code as follows: +R 8x, either RitekR03 or RicohJpnR02 .. -R 8x, Ritek G05. Now the 16x, well you need to make sure that you get the MIJ in the 16x flavor

I understand, and sympathize with your dislike for Memosux discs but .. leave the Maxell discs out of the same sentence as the Memosux discs ... plain and simple, they just ain't comparable

 

I have not had any problems with Maxell (MIJ) discs either.....Therefore maybe your M&M should just be M& for the time being.....

 

Not so fella's.... Maxell can be just as bad as Memosux.

Now you can get some good ones every now and then. But it is like russian roulette. Eventually you are gonna get shot... In your own words you have to look where it comes from to see if it is any good. If it was of overall good quality, you should never have to do that.

In my opinion, and its just that, my opinion, Maxell SUX! MEMOREX SUX!

Most of the time, these are crap.

Debate away!

 

As the DOC stated in the other post,
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/1/242328
You cant get any better than AZO metal dye.
I only USE AZO dye media,
And these are the only ones I recommend,
Al-beit here or to my own friends and family.

If you want to konw what makes BAD media BAD look
at this image here.



On the flip side as to why AZO dye is superior,
Examine the image below taken from Verbatim's dvd media PDF guide.



The AZO dye'd media IS the best media on the market.
But dont take my word for it.
Goto the digitalfaq website and read for yourself.

http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

The following list is in preference order. The best discs are near the top of the list. The discs at
the bottom of the list are suitable only for a landfill.

Almost flawless burns with 95-100% reliable results:
PVC = Pioneer = (-R)(-RW)
MXLRG01, MXLRG02 = Maxell = (-R) ... be aware of unbranded fakes
MCC = Mitsubishi Chemicals = (-R)<-----------------VERBATIM MY CHOICE #1
TDKG02 = TDK Corp = (-R) ... be aware of unbranded fakes
TAIYOYUDEN or YUDEN = Taiyo Yuden = (-R)<--------------FUJIFILM (made in japan) MY CHOICE #2

Decent discs, though not perfect, about 85-95%
success rate:

RICOHJPN = Ritek or Ricoh = (+R)
SONYD04 = Sony = (-R) ... be aware of unbranded fakes
PRODISC = Prodisc Media = (+RW)
INFODISC = Infodisc Media = (+RW)
RITEKG04 = Ritek = (-R)
RITEKG03 = Ritek = (-R)
OPTODISC = Optodisc = (-R)

Quality can be very questionable, about 50-80% success rate:

LEADDATA or LD01 or LD or LEDA = Lead Data = (-R)(-RW)
PRINCO = Princo = (-R)(-RW)
RITEK = Ritek = (-RW)
ONIDTECH = OnidTech = (-R)

Pathetic garbage media, landfill material, about 0-50% success rate:

RITEKG01, RITEKG02 = Ritek = (-R)
PIODATA = Lead Data = (-R) ... often sold as "Pioneer OEM" but that's false
Unbranded PIO = Fake Pioneer = (-R) ... often sold as "Pioneer OEM" but that's false
Unbranded SONY = Fake Sony = (-R)
Unbranded MXL = Fake MXL = (-R)
ACCU = Unknown OEM = (-R)
LONGTEN = Unknown OEM = (-R)
AN31, AN32, ANWELL, AN30 = Unknown OEM = (-R)
OPTODISC = Optodisc = (+R)(+RW)
MATRIX = Unknown OEM = (-R)
CMC = CMC Magnetics = (+R)(-R)
ANYTHING ELSE = Unknown OEM or NEW

 

I've read again some interesting points of view here regarding media, and some of what I read has brought me back to my question regarding SONY media, and what seems to be a broad misconception regarding MIT or MIJ disc. I've seen many opinions over the last year. And early on I've seen replies to this question made by other forum members and back then the reply would be that MIT scanned bad?Now it seems and as I always thought that myth has been dispelled. So I ask what are we standing by today as members when we suggest to uninformed members that SONY MIT disc are inferior to SONY MIJ? Yes, I have asked the question before and as always I'm pleasant in making my inquiry and point. It doesn't really matter to me personally because I know from experience that MIT to MIJ has never made a difference in how SONY media has performed for me.

I also use Verbatim disc a great deal and though Mitsubishi is a Japanese company, Verbatim disc are too MIT. I just ask that we not mislead and provide facts if not proof to support the arguement or point of view when suggesting to fellow members be it new or old that SONY MIJ are a superior disc media. Do you know how crazy people look sifting through SONY from in store stock? and as stated per my experience there is no difference, unless you just want TY media which can no longer be determine on the SONY disc itself but TY has it's unique rounded edge casing which is usually a strong indication that the contents are TY manufactured but again better than SONY MIT disc? Not at all.

 

As per Sony discs my newest experience with the Sonys were the MIJ 16x They coded out D-21 Sonys. Igot two spindles of these 100 discs for $14.00 thinking I got a hell of a deal They looked decent after the burn scanned out 95% plus. Played decent in a stand alone and on the Pc so far looking good. After 6 or 7 times playing the movie started acting like memosux. Thinking just a fluke went to the other spindle and burnt 4 more random dics all but three started acting uo.I imagine these other three won't be long before they start pixelling and freezing to.So now the kids get lots of cartoons and frsbys till their gone.Ty and Verbs are the only expenditures from now on. Chris