TMPGEnc (CBR vs. VBR) & (Noise Reduction) Is it worth the wait?

Hello,

I am new to the forums and have recently taken an interest in making DVD's from PC Media files. I ran across this site and found it to be the most informative for these topics.

In my current project, I am encoding an .avi file to .m2v (MPEG-2 Format) in order to author a new DVD.

I am using TMPGEnc (2.524.63.181) for this process and have run into a few settings that greatly affect the total time required to encode the file.

The first one is [bold]Rate Control Mode[/bold]

CBR (Constant Bitrate) & VBR (2-Pass VBR)

From what I have read in other threads, CBR will process the same amount of bitrate for every frame where as VBR will first analyze the entire file and then allot appropriate bitrate as needed per frame. However, the difference in time required to encode the file is double if I use VBR. The question is, how much picture quality, if any, will I sacrifice by using CBR instead of VBR and will I run into any other playback problems?

The second one is [bold]Noise Reduction[/bold]

When this setting is activated, I assume it is supposed to reduce compression artifacts around the edges of objects as well as other "noise". However, I could be wrong? Anyways, there is a Radio Button for this setting that allows you to select a "High Quality" mode. When enabled, this also causes the encoding process to double vs. having it turned off. Again, the question is, how much picture quality, if any, will I sacrifice by having "High Quality" turned off or on?

Any help would be greatly appreciated and it would also be great to know of any other methods of reducing encoding time without sacrificing output quality.

 

OK.... When useing Tmpgenc the "2-Pass VBR" setting doesn"t produce any better quality than the "CQ (Constant quality)" setting but takes twice as Long but it does Produce better quality than the CBR setting...

The Best settings Quality wize in My experience is the "CQ (Constant quality)" Setting but with this setting is Hard to calculate your Final File Size but it will generally Produce Smaller Files and Better quality than the "CBR" setting.....

The Noise Filter is only really Usefull if your Source Files are Low Quality and contain a Lot of Noise but if you have Good Quality source files then this setting will actually make the quality worse because it tends to smooth out the Image which takes away from the Sharpness of the Image and it sure makes the Encodeing Take a Lot longer....

If you have to do any Major Filtering I find it better to use Virtual-Dub to filter the File and Frameserve from Virtual-Dub to tmpgenc as V-Dub filters are much faster than Tmpgenc Filters....

Also in the "Motion Search Precition" setting I find there is absolutly no quality Improvement useing the "Highest Quality" setting over the "High quality" setting accept the Highest quality setting makes the encodeing take twice as Long.....

You also might Just consider useing a Faster encoder as Tmpgenc is Pretty Slow but there are only a small handfull of Encoders that Produce High Quality and are worth useing and one of these is called the "MainConcept Encoder" which doesn"t have the Filter settings that tmpgenc has but it does Produce just as Good Quality as Tmpgenc But it is up to 5 Times as Fast as Tmpgenc and it is Pretty easy to use especially if you Know your way arround an encoder and know what settings to use with different types of Video....

(Different Types of Video have to be encoded Differently, take for instance if you have an AVI file that Is interlaced at 29.976fps ,It would be encoded Differently than an AVI file that Is Progressive at 23.976fps)


Cheers

 

Thanks for the information Minion!

You have brought up some interesting things to try out. I prefer the VirtualDub filters over the TMPGEnc ones but did not know about directly "frameserving" them to TMPGEnc. I assume that this method will allow me to encode directly from the filtered VirtualDub output stream without actually having to save the file in VirtualDub and then reopening it in TMPGEnc. I tried to look for any articles about the "frameserving" process but could not find any. Any quick instructions on how to do this would be great. Also, can you frameserve to MainConcept Encoder from VirtualDub as well?

I've heard nothing but good stories about CCE (Cinema Craft Encoder), how does it measure up to MainConcept? Would I need to be really "Encoder Tech Savvy" to use CCE or does it include templates and guides that make it easier to use?

Thanks again!

 

Hi, Yes You have the Idea of how Frameserveing Works, It basicly lets you use the Filters in V-Dub without haveing to render to a New File....

The way you Frameserve useing Virtual-Dub is you first have to install the Virtual-Dub frameserver Handler ,To do this you simply run the "Auxsetup.exe" file in the V-Dub folder and then click "Install Handler" and then click "OK" and then Close the AuxSetup.exe Window....

Now Run Virtual-Dub and then Load your AVI file into it and then go to "Video" and set it to "Full processing Mode" which will give you access to the Filter settings, so now go to "Video" to "Filters" and then set up which Filters you want to use and when you have everything set up the way you want it go to "File" to "Start Frameserver" and then c;lick the "Start" Button and give the Frameserver file a Name and save it with a .vdr extention...

Now just run Tmpgenc and Load the .vdr Frameserver file into it and encode it like you Normally would (Without the Filters of cource).....

You should Notice that the encodeing useing V-Dub filters while Frameserveing to Tmpgenc is quite a Bit Faster than if useing the Tmpgenc Noise Filters....

As For the "MainConcept Encoder" supporting V-Dub frameserver files well It doesn"t....I have on occation been able to make them work but not reliably but if you want to learn how to use a Different Frameserver Called "AVISynth" then you can use it with the MainConcept Encoder but AVISynth is Pretty Complicated cuz it doesn"t have a GUI, it works by writeing Commands on NotePad useing a Form of code called "Script" but once you learn how to use it properly it can Do so many things and it has some of the Best Filters available and it is Fast compared to other Frameservers...

There is also a way to Frameserve from Tmpgenc to MainConcept useing a Frameserver called the "VFAPI Converter" and use Tmpgenc Filters when encodeing with MainConcept...
It is actually Faster useing Tmpgenc filters Frameserveing to MainConcept than it is just useing Tmpgenc to encode.....

If you would also like to Try this Method Let me Know and I"ll explain it to you...

As For useing "CinemaCraft Encoder SP" it is one of the Fastest encoders there is and it is the Best Quality mpeg-2 encoder there is and is the Only encoder that supports up to 9-Pass VBR encodeing but generally more than 2 or 3 is a waste of Time...

CCE SP is Pretty Difficult to use because most of the Settings are pretty Complex and if you don"t know what to set each setting to Based on the Type of Video you have you will end up with Sub-Standard Results.....

Also you Pretty Much have to use a Frameserver with CCE SP because CCE only supports different 3 File Types and they are AVI(With Uncompressed Audio) and Avisynth Frameserver Files and Virtual-Dub Frameserver files so if you have a Different Format Files you have to frameserve it and CCE doesn"t have any real Filters so it is best to use the Filters in a Frameserver...

The Latest version of CCE SP is version 2.70 and it is the Best version yet as they have Finally added a couple Filters tham make things easier Like a Resize Filter and it now has support for 2:3 and 3:2 Pulldown unlike previous versions.....

CCE doesn"t really have any Templates and the Manual is hard to understand unless you have a very advanced Knowlege of Digital video and Mpeg Compression.....

If you want to learn how to use it then PM me and I"ll give you my e-mail address so you can contact me and then I can help you with any Problems you might be haveing.....

Cheers

 

Cool, looks like I have a lot of "experimenting" to look forward to =)

I'll post the results when I have them...

 

OK..Some interesting results...

First of all, anytime you need to filter a file with VirtualDub and encode to DVD format, frameserving is the ONLY way to go if you want to speed up processing time.

I went ahead and tried frameserving from VirtualDub to TMPGEnc and also from VirtualDub to MainConcept (Surprisingly, it worked without any problems yet) by using some instructions you posted on another thread (http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/66968). Similar to the ones above in this thread but you left out the part about disabling the "Direct Show File Reader"

I used the following settings that I thought would produce the best quality:

http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/6328/encodesetting8ky.jpg

[bold]Source File Details[/bold]
Dimensions: 648 X 276
File Size: 90,513 KB
Clip Length: 00:06:39.320
Format: XVID MPEG-4 (.avi File Extension)

[bold]MainConcept Encoding Details:[/bold]
Dimensions: 720 X 480
File Size: 195,022 KB
Encode Time: 00:19:53 (Ratio 2.99)
Format: MPEG-2 (.mpv File Extension)

[bold]TMPGEnc Encoding Details:[/bold]
Dimensions: 720 X 480
File Size: 226,917 KB
Encode Time: 00:23:43 (Ratio 3.57)
Format: MPEG-2 (.m2v File Extension)



As you can see in the image above, both encoders added a bit of discoloration compared to the original file. MainConcept added a slight increase to Hue, Saturation, and Intensity levels while TMPGEnc only altered these levels a very tiny bit. The MainConcept discoloration is more noticeable.

The pixel comparison of both encodes is nearly identical to the original which means no added noise or compression artifacts. (Although I personally think the TMPGEnc encode is closer)



In the picture above, TMPGEnc actually seems to do better with the compression artifacts at the tops of the buildings.

Unless, I goofed up one of the encoder settings above and based on these results, I think I'm gonna have to go with TMPGEnc & VirtualDub frameserve for this particular project.

Thanks for all your useful information, Minion. You helped reduce my encoding time to 1/3 of the amount it originally took. You are the best on these forums =)