Why is Memorex so bad for burning 360 games?

I've had a spindle of 100 that had 2 different manufacturers in it.

 

Just like your reply was lacking in substance
thought so

 

I've never seen a Memorex disc from any of those lower tier manufacturers. I'm betting that I never will. Also, it's not a crap shoot for me. I buy my discs from a site which lists the manufacturer ID of each batch so I always know what I'm getting.

 

:shakes head:

 

No, I've given reasons for my argument in this thread and put my case across. So far you've posted twice and said nothing at all. Nothing worthwhile anyway.

 

Stumbled onto this thread accidentally and became intrigued. I have cataloged every disc I have ever burned so I looked up the first DVD-R's that were burned and played them in my Philips stand-alone and on my computer. I always bought what ever was on sale at Best Buy so I could save money. Every disk I tried worked perfectly. All were burned in a space from October "04 to March '05. All were burned at 2x or 4x.
They include:
Verbatim MCC 01RG20
Fuji TYG 02
Memorex CMC MAG AE1
TDK TTG 01
Philips CMC MAG AE1

I got tired of trying different disks and came to the conclusion that while there very well may be some difference that can be measured by some software, it is irrelevant to me. If the stored information is that important, I'll just re-burn to a new disc every few years. After all, I can afford it what with the money I've saved.

P.S. Somebody is going to have to explain how you "wear out" a laser by aiming it at poor quality dyes. I can understand focusing motors wearing out searching for legible data but the laser?

 

According to that article, Mitsubishi does discs for verbatim. So is it safe to say that anything made by Mitsubishi is ok seeing as how Mitsu's name is also listed in the memorex category? Also, HP, Imation, Nexxtech and probably a few others. Could it be that some of these people are getting the mitsubishi manufactured Memorex and Sony's, thus the reason why some are great and some are not?

 

For those who don't mind them:

Click

Amazon is having a lightning deal on the Memorex DL DVD 50 packs an hour from now. Probably not worth its own post, but I'll probably grab them (for when others want a copy, Verbs only for my personal drives)

 

We know what you're getting too. Lower quality discs. If they work for you, great. They work for me too. But they are still crap discs.

Quite possibly, sir.

I haven't checked that, but I'm willing to bet Mitsubishi makes one specific type of disc for the "Singapore made Verbatims", and make for Memorex and others, a less expensive type (or various types since there is no consistency) of disc, seeing as to how that's what these other companies offer: A less expensive alternative.

The laser is your eyes.
The data on the disc is any classic style RPG.
The Verbatim is a 1080p hi-def TV.
The Memorex is a standard def TV.

You can read the text in the RPG game on both TVs, but on the hi-def, you can see it much easier than on the regular TV, causing your eyes to not have to work as hard. The harder a mechanical device works, the sooner it'll break down. The same reason Taxi Cabs & Cop cars don't have the same life-span as regular cars (they work harder).

 

A disc cannot wear out a laser (with the "exception" of some very early Pioneer 2X DVD-R drive models that would go into perpetual burn if they tried to record a 4X DVD-R discs. It wasn't the disc that caused the problem but the aging or overheating of the laser that never turned off. Pioneer issued a firmware update that fixed the problem.) The analogy about eyes, high definition, and taxicabs is bizarre. The laser is a diode at a fixed wavelength that does not change. A reading drive will scan a disc only so many times before it gives up, and the pickup head focusing unit does all the work--not the diode.

Mitsubishi does not manufacture discs except, perhaps, on a test bed. They manufacture dye, and they own the Verbatim brand. The manufacturing is done by CMC, Moser Bayer, and a plant in Singapore for the DL discs. All of these plants use Mitsubishi's stampers.

Memorex outsources from mostly from CMC and Ritek with some production going to Moser Bayer (a company very difficult to work with), and Prodisc. In the days when huge orders would overwhelm CMC's plant, CMC would sometimes fill the orders with production that had used Mitsubishi stampers or Philips stampers; but mixed discs never went into the same spindles even though the packaging was the same. As long as discs met A-grade specifications and the packaging was all-Memorex, Memorex would accept them. No major brand I know of accepts anything less than A-grade under its own name from the factories. (There was a case of one major brand accepting B-grade CD-Rs, but they came up with a different brand to sell them at rock-bottom prices. That was the only way they could meet their volume commitment because sales of their own high-priced, respectable brand were too low.)

As for DVD+R DL discs, Verbatim sticks with the older production method of photo-polymer production for 8X discs. This is expensive because there are extra steps and one polymer layer is wasted after use. For 8X DVD+R DL discs, Ritek has moved to a new method developed by Ricoh using an "inverse stack" that uses fewer production steps, wastes no parts, and is better for reducing contaminants. The IS process is cheaper, and Ritek passes the cost savings on to their customers who, in turn, pass them on to consumers. Unfortunately, not all 8X DVD+R DL drives have firmware added to record to these IS discs; and no 4X DVD+R DL drives will work with them either unless a drive manufacturer issues a firmware update--not likely. You need a new drive to take advantage of them.

Recommendation from digitalfaq are nearly worthless since half the information found there is out of date, erroneous, misleading, or simply bizarre. The other half is correct. If you can tell the difference, the site is worth a read; but most people are not optical engineers by trade, so they mistakenly take that information as gospel.

What I'd like to know is how a disc that works year after year, has low intial error rates, and keeps reasonably low error rates can be considered "crap" simply because of its brand name.

 

Now this was a piss poor discussion you guys should re evaluate your debate
I am usually impressed by this forum and it's maturity .. but am very disappointed by this thread

thanks to mod for taking over

F

now someone prove my point by flaming me !

 

im really glad JoeRyan posted what he did, i never did understand why people said that memorex or anything other than VERBS for that matter, will wear out your laser faster. i always thought that it would read or wouldnt read, depending on the power to the laser, which is set, but ofcourse giving the laser more power(which is manually done by the user) will decrease the lifespan

this is another post i found here that i believe is inline with JoeRyan, despite it being about PS2 the point in general is still the same

http://www.cdrom-guide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162027

 

Memorex is excellent .... if you want coasters!!!! I've bought them 3 times, coz they were so cheap and coz there was nothing else available.
EVERY frikking time at least 3 out of 10 ended up completely unusable, out-of-box. last time it was 2 out of 5, do the math.

DON'T EVER GET MEMOREX, IT SUCKS!!!!

 

Bonkabonk--

Your "newbie" status means you probably have not been following the AfterDawn discussions regarding disc/drive compatibility and firmware issues. If you list the drive you are using, the version of firmware it has, and the MID code of the particular Memorex discs you are using, someone is likely to point out that either the firmware version or the type of disc is incompatible. I did the math, as you suggested, and the rate indicates that the discs you are using are probably not 8X DVD+R DL discs because the failure rate is typically higher than 40%. That's because of different manufacturing method used by Ritek for 8X +R DL discs; and Memorex uses Ritek as its DL supplier.

In order to find the cause of the problem it is helpful to provide more information than failure rates. There are scores of variables in recording discs. The most important are the MID code of the medium itself (that tells the manufacturer or at least the owner of the stamper, the type of disc, its rated speed, and the dye used), the recording drive, the firmware of the recording drive, and the playback unit. Other factors are the recording software, the recording speed, the processor, and many other, lesser variables. The issue is far more complicated than identifying some brand and tarnishing it.

 

Joe Ryan I've read your posts and it definitely looks like you know what your talking about, so im not trying to argue with you or anything, i just wanted to post my experience with memorex. I've used memorex before for many different things such as audio cd's, movies, games, etc. In my personal experience with memorex they always worked fine when it came to audio cd's or movies and I never really had any problems using them for that, But when it came to games i did sometimes have problems. I used to backup my games for ps2, and when I first started doing it I went out to buy some blank media. I didn't have much money at the time, so i went to walmart to grab some. They had a good deal on memorex (dvd-r) so i figured I'd pick a pack of that up. after getting them home i read up a little bit online, and made a backup of a game i beleive it was suikoden iv, im not 100% sure though. anyways so i pop it in the ps2 to boot it up and it starts. It took a little while longer to load but I got to the data select screen and started a new file. The opening scene starts to play
and its running smooth for a while but then starts skip a little bit. After that i start playing the game and notice when im walking around towns and stuff whats up ahead isn't loading fast enough. for example if there was a group of people standing in the distance i wouldnt be able to see them until i got right near them then they would load. so i figured maybe i burned it too slow or fast or maybe it was just a bad disc. so i did it a couple of more times and was running into the same problems. It was bugging me a lot so i checked online to see what the problem could be. Online, people were saying to not use memorex and try a more expensive brand of media. so i went and picked up a pack of sony dvd-r's, reburned the game, and the first time it worked fine. I didn't have any of the issues i was having before and it ran just like my original. There were some games that would work fine on memorex and others that wouldn't if they didnt, i would just use a sony instead, and most of the time it would fix the problems. After a while, backups started not working right or not loading at all to the point where no matter which media i used, it wouldnt work. so i figured it had to be my laser dying on me. Original games on the other hand would still work fine and load instantly, but backups would not. so thats what happened with memorex for me, and sony would usually fix the problems i was having with games that i burnt to memorex. I always wondered why it wouldnt read the backups anymore but would still read originals fine, you said that a disc can not wear out a laser, can it weaken at all or something? or do you know anything that could have played a part or caused it to not want to read backups anymore? Also i still have some of the backups so if you want any info on them i can give you some.

 

So because you've had luck with Memorex means the VAST number of complaints across the web are now null and void? Is there just some huge conspiracy theory against Memorex?

If we have to choose between

- Memorex uses sub par media
or
- Everyone who is complaining is wrong and only needs a new burner / firmware upgrade

Which do you think is easier to believe?

 

nicely put.. I'm not an optical engineer.. I repair consoles.. or used to before the abortion called the 360 turned op..

Joe has nothing but my respect but in this case he is wrong.. bad media can and does damage drives.. a poor disk forces the laser to run at a higher average output which as things aren't made to last reduces it's effective lifespan.. there are a few other factors come into play.. as a pure electronics engineer I AM qualified to comment.. if the laser struggles to get a reliable focus on the disk tracks it hunts increasing the current through the eye shift focus coils.. and as anybody with a little ps2 laser rebuild knowledge knows a few shorted turns in those coils is death.

so bad disks DO cause early laser failure.

anybody care to explain how a memorex disk will not play while a verb from the same iso on the same burner will? .. yeah.. different manufacturing strategy.. use verbs for your 360 or get ready to pay £15 for a new laser off a nice bloke in Leeds. not f-in rocket science.. dvd-rom drives are like burners.. they favour certain types of dyes and disks. I thought we sorted this discussion 7 years ago with G05 8x disks for the xbox1.. but apparently not. idiots still want to save pennies apparently while not counting the non workers and factoring them in when they have a no read no play crash console....
Bottom line is this.. we don't care why they work and to be honest all the talk won't change the fact.. what is known to work guaranteed every time is the wat to go.. to make a reliable 360 playable burn you need verbs and a decent modern burner.. want me to put up scans on my pioneer 116d vs my nec nd3550?
the nec does better burns on the same memorex 16x+r with less p1 and jitter errors checked with cd-speed but the 360 won't read them whereas the same media on the pioneer with a far higher jitter and p1 error rate reads just fine...... now then.. what say you?

 

Boy, it has been quite awhile. I'm thinking back to when the modchips first came out for the PS2. If I recall right, wasn't the g04's THE media to use. And then the g05's came out and things started to go haywire?

edit... Oh, and Happy New Year to all of you guys!