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Hi8 camcorder to DVD: Which software?

Discussion in 'Video capturing from analog sources' started by Kurt.be, May 19, 2004.

  1. Kurt.be

    Kurt.be Member

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    Have read many a thread, but do not seem to find an answer. (Found a lot of interesting stuff, but things also become more complicated, as would be for a newbee like me)
    My system should do the job, The avermedia EZmaker USB 2.0 should do the rendering, but it came with Ulead software (movie factory 2) which is useless because it's help file basically describes what you see on the screen. (like in "here you can select NTSC or PAL", but it does not at all explain what that is, and will not tell you why one should select one or another) In my search for all the correct settings, I now wonder about the best software in terms of picture quality. (If I read corectly there would only be 4 good programs to do the job-TMPGEnc, Mainconcept encoder, Canopus and Cinema Craft - meaning, Ulead, MGI, pinnacle, Nero etc, are not as good in terms of picture quality?)
    Other questions are: I want to transfer every tape onto a DVD as a sort of backup, and edit them at a later date; Is this a good idea or will it get me into trouble to edit at a later day? and in which format should I put them? And will I get same picture quality in direct to disc, or is it better to put video on harddisk first?

    Thanks for any reply.
     
  2. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    well first off your Capture device doesn"t render the Video at all because it is Not a Hardware Encoder device it is Just a Cheap USB Transfer device so it is the Software that will have to do any encodeing...
    And wether to choose NTSC or Pal would depend on what video standard is used in the Country you live..North America and Japan use NTSC and Europe,India ect use Pal so choose the correct one...
    Never use Direct to disk because it doesn"t allways work especially if you have a system that is under 2.5ghz....
    So if you are useing Ulead DVD movie Factory 2 to capture and make your DVD"s then it should be Pretty easy, You should do your editing before you Burn to DVD because transfering the Video from DVD Back to your PC to edit can be troublesome and a waste of DVD"s...So if you are going to make DVD"s you have to capture to Mpeg2 at 720+480 for NTSC and 720+576 for Pal and useing a Bitrate under 9.8mb/sec (at 4500kbs you get about 2 hours per DVD), There should be Pre-Made capture Profiles in the Program that you can use to capture.....
    Useing some fancy capture software won"t really help you much were quality is concerned because your Capture device is Notoriusly bad so Ulead DVD Movie Factory will work as good as any......
    The encoders you mentioned are for encodeing files that are not in Mpeg format to Mpeg format so if you are allready captureing to this format then you don"t need any of these encoders, If you were captureing to an AVI format then you could use one of the encoders to convert the files to Mpeg2 for DVD.......
     
  3. Kurt.be

    Kurt.be Member

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    Thank you ever so much for your answer Minion Have some comments and questions in next mail
    Kind regards,
    Kurt
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2004
  4. Kurt.be

    Kurt.be Member

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    Thank you ever so much for your answer Minion (where do you get the courage to do them all?).
    I am not pissed on, but pretty pissed off :), not because of your answer, but because of not knowing of, nor looking for this site, before buying a device. However, i did some more reading, and concluded that the 'capturing' device is crap. Just to make sure that I got it half right, this is what I gathered so far:
    1. One needs a decent capturing device s.a.canopus
    2. One needs a decent capturing program for uncompressed Avi files s.a. virtual-dub, IU_VCR
    3. This can be rendered to half size by using the HuffYUV Codec. (Does this run under a program, or is it standalone software?)
    BUT: Canopus e.g. have their own dedicated program? Not to uncompressed AVI, but DV AVI? Can all the above then be achieved by the canopus software with the same quality results?
    4. Now is the time to edit with a decent editing program
    5. After the editing files are to be encoded to MPEG2 by e.g. TMPGEnc. I also came across MPEG 4: is that better or worse, or just different?
    6. Burn to DVD with a decent Authering program.
    Eh, voilà
    Have I got it? Or do I still have no clue what I am talking about?

    By the way: this information is all here, but very hard to find. For one, the search function didn't work. And one had to do a lot of reading and put a lot of bits and pieces together before getting a certain overvieuw. Would it not be an idea to make a sort of introductory page with general information for any newbie (much like above, but probably correct instead of a guess) and then put it on top of the forum, like the rules of behaviour on top now. It might save a lot of time for anyone surching first info, but it might save a heap of time for you (as you seem to do most of the work here) and save you from having to put up the same answers time and again. (like mine was)
    Although, it must be said that getting a personal reply is more enjoyable than a mass reply.
    So, once again, thank you for this one, and I am looking forward to the next one, to find out if I need to do more homework, or wheather I am slowly getting there.
    Kind regards,
    Kurt
     
  5. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    Well you have a lot of the Info right but it is a Little Mixed up....
    If you were to get a Canopus Device like the ADVC-100 or the ACEDVio it would capture your files to High Quality DV AVI files (The same format Digital Camcorders Record too)..
    DV AVI is a Good Format because it is Not highly compressed so there is not much loss of Video information from Compression, the Format is also very easy to edit with most Non-Linear Editors(NLE"s) like Vegas Video and Adobe Premier, and can be rendered many times with very little quality loss, these Files then after being edited can easilly be encoded to DVD Compliant Mpeg2 files useing a High Quality mpeg encoder....

    The stuff about Useing HuffYUV doesn"t apply when useing this type of Capture device and Mpeg-4 is a Totally different format which is the same format as DivX and XviD and can not be used for createing Standard DVD"s.....
    The Canopus Capture devices generally do not come with any software because they do not need Drivers to install and they will work with any capture program that can capture from a Firewire port.....

    These devices are fairly expensive like the cheapest one I believe it the ADVC-50 or ADVC-55 and I think they run for about $175.....
    There are also some Good CI TV Cards for half the price but they still are prone to sync problems and the capture quality isn"t as good.....well good luck...Cheers
     
  6. Kurt.be

    Kurt.be Member

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    Thaks again for your reply Minion,
    At least I am now convinced that I better start all over again, and look for a new device. (will most probably go for the canopus) so, second try:
    1. Any program (even Ulead), will capture my tapes in DV AVI. Software here does not have an effect on picture quality?
    2. Then I can edit with a Non Linerar Editor (will find out elsewhere what that is) Again, does software here have an effect on picture quality? and then
    3. render into Mpeg-2. Here software is important in terms of picture quality. Rendering the DV AVI can be done many times with very little quality loss. But why would one want to render more than once?
    4. Burn onto DVD. Again software has no effect upon picture quality?

    The DV AVI will take about 13GB for one tape of 1,5 hours? and I can put about 2 hours of film onto one DVD, wich would be how manny GB?

    Hey, it allready seems less complicated know, providing I got it right.

    Again, thank you for your reply, but I start to wonder how often I can bother you with all these questions which you have (no doubt) answered so often, before I start to piss you off with all this nagging...

    Kind regards,
    Kurt
     
  7. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    Hi Kurt..When useing a Canopus ADVC Capture device the Capture software does have a big effect on Quality because the capture device does the Compression not the software....
    When editing with an editor the editor can effect Picture quality depending on what type of filters it has that you use and what DV Codec you have installed..
    Some poeple will render there Projects more than once, for instance someone Might do there editing and then render there Project as a DV AVI file and then realize that the color is off or that they might want to change something so they re-edit and re-render the file when they correct the problems with the DV AVI file...Most Editors do not have very good quality mpeg encoders so you have to render your Project first as a DV AVI file and then use a standalone Mpeg encoder to encode the file to Mpeg2 for DVD but a couple editors have good Mpeg encoders Or have a way to Frameserve the Project to an external encoder without haveing to render the Project...Vegas Video 4/5 has a Good Mpeg encoder made by Mainconcept and Adobe Premier has a Variety of mpeg encoder Plugins that can be used with it to encode to Mpeg2 For DVD like there is a Mainconcept encoder Plugin for Adobe Premier that also allows for Native Mpeg editing within Premier and there are other Encoder Plugins like the Canopus Procoder Plugin and the CinemaCraft encoder Plugin but I personally prefer useing Vegas Video because it is Much easier to use and has features like Dolby AC3 encodeing which other editors don"t have...
    Authoring Mpeg2 files to DVD has no effect on Picture quality unless you are useing a crappy cheapo DVD authoring program that re-encodes the Mpeg2 file to create the DVD ,One program notorius for doing this is Nero vision Express so don"t use it....
    Well a 120 Minute DV AVI File will be about 15gb to 20gb but when encoded to mpeg2 for DVD useing the correct Bitrate the file should Fit on a 4.38gb DVD-R..
    What determines the Size of the Mpeg2 file you author to DVD is the Bitrate used to encode the File to Mpeg2, so the Lower the Bitrate used the More video you can fit on a DVD but also the lower the Quality, so if you use a really high bitrate you will get better quality but less Video on a DVD..It is best to use a "Bitrate Calculator" before you encode your DV AVI files to Mpeg2 to calculate the Bitrate you should use depending on the Length of the Movie so it fits on a DVD-R, I use a freeware One called "PowerBit"....
    Once you understand the Concepts behind what has to be done to create good quality DVD"s it becomes easier to understand, it might take a Bit of Trial and error before you get it right but once you get your own method down it should get easier and easier and the quality will start getting better and better and especially if you get a Good Quality Capture device you will notice a Great improovement in the Picture quality and you won"t have to worry about those pesky Sync problems that you get with other capture devices...These devices generally don"t come with any Capture or editing software so if you end up getting one and need software then PM me and I"ll see if I can find you a cheap Editng/Capture program and find you a good DVD authoring program.....well good luck...Cheers
     
  8. Wkorving

    Wkorving Member

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    I'm also started to convert my old Hi8 video's to DVD.
    I came a long way but now I’m stuck.
    I converted my HI8 video files using my DV-30 (pinnacle) capture card.
    The AVI files I edited them using Adobe Premiere 6.5.
    The edited AVI file I converted to MPEG-2 using procoder 1.01
    But how do I convert the MPEG-2 files to VOB
    I have Nero-6 but I’ve read that it gives bad picture quality and it also crashes on my computer (dell dimension)

    Can anyone help me make the last step. I want to record them in DVD standard not in SVCD
     
  9. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    You need to use a DVD Authoring program to Author the Mpeg2 files to DVD...It will allow you to add menu"s and Chapters to your Movie and then it will author the files to DVD....
    The one I usually use is called "DVD-Lab" but if you want something that it extremely easy to use then something like Tmpgenc DVD Author might be more your speed.....Cheers
     
  10. Wkorving

    Wkorving Member

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    Thanks Minion
    I've downloaded the trail version of DVD-lab so I can test it
     
  11. Kurt.be

    Kurt.be Member

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    Dear Minion,
    Just when I thought things were getting easier....
    First, excuse me for being late with a reply. Illness has had me down for a few days (an eye infection prevented me from reading the screen)
    I quote: "When useing Canopus device, Capture software does effect Quality because device does Compression not the software...." Isn't this contradictive? The device does the compression, but the software effects the quality (of the compression?)?

    Apart from that, I feel it is about time to really start looking for a new device and start some experimenting. Things will probably become clearer in practice.
    I thank you for your kind offer to PM you. If only I knew what it meant...
    Shows how new a newbie can be...;-)
    See you. And many thanks for the reply (again).
    Kurt
     
  12. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    What I mean is that the Device takes the Signal and compresses it to DV AVI format and the Capture Software just Transfers that Compressed Data to your Hard drive, The capture software does absolutly nothing to the incomeing video signal it just stores it on your Hard drive as a DV AVI file....Cheers
     

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