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Okay, I'm a retard

Discussion in 'DVDR' started by Dhalgren, Apr 11, 2005.

  1. Dhalgren

    Dhalgren Member

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    I recently bought an NEC 3520A and I thought it was a single-layer burner. I was just going to link it to someone and I realized that New Egg was calling it a dual-layer burner. So, let me ask this: have I not needed to use DVD Shrink and other methods to backup movies? Could I have just been using dual layer disks? Are there problems with dual layer disks?
     
  2. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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    You can use dual layer disk, but keep this in mind.

    1. They are not very cost effective yet
    2. Not compatable with a lot of Stand alone DVD players
     
  3. Dhalgren

    Dhalgren Member

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    thanks bbmayo. Does anyone know where I can get a set of like 10 dual layer disks. I would prefer to minimize my purchase if my possibility of creating coasters has increased. Also, why would players have problems playing dual layer disks? I understand the manufacturing process is different than commercial movies, but shouldn't they read the same?
     
  4. pulsar

    pulsar Active member

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    Until you get familiar with your system & software, I would use RW media. DL is not RW capable. If you waste a few it is a costly business.
    Most films (without extras) will fit onto a single layer disc without the need for compressing. I have 3 108 burners, all DL, but I only use single layer +RW media. It is the type that my PC prefers. I have not had a coaster for a long, long time.
    Don't forget, nothing is guaranteed. Hence you need to do a bit of playing about. Ritek & Verbatim make quality media. I use traxdata media, 62pence (1 dollar?) a disc.
    I have DL burners 'cos they are Pioneer, good quality stuff & good firmware updates.

    Pulsar
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2005
  5. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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  6. Dhalgren

    Dhalgren Member

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    "booktype"?
     
  7. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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    Physically there is a difference between a DVD-R disc and a DVD+R disc that is made during the production process. During the production of a DVD-R disc the lead-in is pre-embossed (pre-written). This overwrites parts of the DVD that contains information about the disc. E.g. the CSS key (part of the copy protection) is in this part on commercial movie discs (This is why you can’t make a 1:1 copy of a DVD). But in this space there is also room reserved for the so called ‘booktype’ field.

    Changing the booktype field

    This booktype field identifies the disc as either a DVD-ROM, DVD+R(W) or a DVD-R(W) disc and is for a big part responsible for the compatibility. Because this setting is overwritten during the DVD-R production process it can’t be modified afterwards, the laser of your DVD recorder simply can’t write to that part of the disc. During the production of DVD+R discs the space is untouched. Still CSS keys can’t be written to DVD+R discs because every DVD recorder and DVD player has a limit in its firmware to write or read to this space. However, there is no limit for writing the booktype field. Therefor a DVD+R(W) recorder will be able to modify this field by sending a command to the DVD recorder and fool the DVD player.

    When the booktype field (bitsetting) is changed to DVD-ROM then DVD players are fooled and will think the user has put in a DVD-ROM disc instead of a DVD+R disc and will read it accordingly. This results in an increased chance that the player is able to read the disc and that’s why the ability to change the booktype field (bitsetting) is essential to a lot of users. Certainly owners of a DVD player that requires this field to be set to DVD-ROM, in order to work properly, will prefer a DVD recorder that supports setting the booktype field.

     
  8. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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  9. tsquare43

    tsquare43 Regular member

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    bbmayo:

    Lot good information in your explanation. Unfortunately, about half of it went over my head -- but I am trying to learn. Let me ask a rather simple question. Since what I got out of the previous posts was that a lot of machines need to be "fooled" into thinking it is a -R. If that is the case, why not just use -R's and not fool with +R's? Is it because some burners only recognize +R's?

    Not meaning to hijack this thread but wanted to let you know that I just had my first succesful burn (on my own pc) using your burn with Nero guide. I have burned before using my son's pc, but I got rid of my external LiteOn and installed an internal NEC 3520A. Tried DDD & Shrink last nite and screwed it up. Tried to burn onto what I thought was a new dvd and it wasn't -- what a dumba**! Used Fuji DVD-RW today and it worked fine. You guys are the best. Thanks.

    Tom
     
  10. saugmon

    saugmon Senior member

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    Hey tom:

    To fool some dvd players and pc drive,I book-type my dvd +r into DVD-ROM. You can't book-type dvd dash media,only Plus.

    I play my backups on quite a few pc's and stand alone players using both my benq 1620's booktyped to dvd-rom. I have a few of my backups passed around by friends and relatives and have yet to find a player that won't play them. Unfortunantly,I have found that the dash backups off my benq is not as compatable on a few of them.

    A majority of the older burners will only do dash or plus format only. On all the newer 16x burners-they have dual format. The dual format burners come in handy. Every burner is different,just like every stand alone player is different. That's why one certain brand of media works for one member while another member hates it. The dual format burner will give you "more flexibility" and finding which format to use.By viewing your backups on all your stand alones and pc,they will tell you which format they like. That's why I mainly use plus media,booktyped to dvd-rom. Many,many standalones and my compatability is superior in them when I booktype them.

    Now take my last I/O magic 16x burner, even booktyping them to dvd-rom,the compatability on my pcs and stand alones were piss-poor.My machines prefered the I/O dash backups and a heck of a time with Plus. Again,different burner-different preferences.The compatability of this burner is why I replaced it with another benq 1620.

    The same thing happens on my tv home burner. I have one player that will not play the dvd+rw backups off of it. Rw's can be even trickier to get them to play in stand alones.
     
  11. tsquare43

    tsquare43 Regular member

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    Thanks, Saugmon. I recently installed an NEC3520A and according to the site I just visited, that bad boy is "supposed" to burn any and everything. I have only used Fuji DVD-RW (because that's all I had) but I plan to "experiment" with other media -- except Memorex.
     
  12. Jetster

    Jetster Regular member

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    Good info Thanks BBmayo
     
  13. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    Very nice explanations gentlemen. I too am a loyal fan of the dvd-rom booktype.
     
  14. BTFSB

    BTFSB Member

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    The short explanation goes like this.
    If you have a burner with a cpacity to use either -R or +R use the +R and set the Book Type to DVD-ROM and it will work 100% of the time. If you set a DVD-R disc to DVD-ROM you are likely not to be able to play the disk. The reason is simple, look at the owners manuals and they will say that a DVD-ROM is not useable in that machine. Don't be fooled by this since it is primarily designed that way on purpose to stop piracy. The player would try to read a DVD-ROM disc made by using a -R with the book type set to DVD-ROM as a data disk which it will not work. Using a +R disc set to DVD-ROM will work all the time since the firmware of the player cannot distinguish this disc from a store bought (production house) disc. And the winner is +R.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2005
  15. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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    I believe Saugman already clarified this, but let me just make sure you under stand. I was talking about 3 different type of DVD formats.

    1. DVD-R
    2. DVD+R
    3. DVD-ROM

    DVD-ROM is not the same as DVD-R. DVD ROM is the format that is used on original store bought DVD's, and you can not make a DVD-R into this format, but you can make a DVD+R fool your DVD players into believing they are ROM's.
    I hope that makes better sense for you :)
     
  16. BTFSB

    BTFSB Member

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    It's possible to set the bit on a DVD-R to be DVD-ROM and any player will have trouble using it. True most store bought DVD's are set to DVD-ROM but there are a few out there that are not so setting a DVD-R to DVD-ROM will not work on those players which their owners manuals dictate that a DVD-ROM disk will not work. I use either -R or +R discs depending on the deal that I get when they are on sale. I only buy top quality discs and in either case if I know the disc will migrate to another player, I will always use a DVD+R set to DVD-ROM so that I know it will work. A good case in point is most DVD recorders and Toshiba as well as Panasonic players simply cannot read a DVD-R set to DVD-ROM as the chipsets used in these machines will read it as a data disk. A disc is a disc. No format is better than the other but when it comes to cross-compatability it makes more sense to use DVD+R's with the bit set to DVD-ROM. I always thought it funny that you can edit directly on a +R but in the case of using a DVD+R and not a DVD+RW it would generally make no sense to use these discs but like I stated previously you'll have better luck with the DVD+R than a DVD-R when its going elswhere. As for my player it doesn't matter at all and I will continue to use either format since I own a Sony which will read either. Check the owners manual of the target player before deciding what to use. As with all products, common sense dictates a good burn. Apparently someone removed my post about the problem resolution regarding External USB drives but thats ok. I have seen in these forums several goofy resolutions to weird problems when an ounce of common sense would do just fine. This is especially in light of a few people who think that the video will disapear after a year. A disc is a sealed unit with two halves glued together and is non-magnetic and contains digital files which simply cannot disappear on their own. The truth of the matter is that in these cases, the user has changed their player and again gets back to the above referenced issues with setting a DVD-R to DVD-ROM.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2005
  17. bbmayo

    bbmayo Active member

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    Really? I would like to see that done or explained how, and what program will do that?
     
  18. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    Me too. Everything I've read said it can't be done.
     
  19. Dhalgren

    Dhalgren Member

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    Lots of good info, thanks guys. So a DVD+R DL booktyped to DVD-ROM should work with all stand-alone players?

    Also, is there any disadvantage to using a DVD+R booktyped to DVD-ROM vs using a DVD-R if your standalone player plays them just fine? Is cost the only factor? This is the first time I've been hearing that +R is more compatible with players. Everything else I've been readin has said that -R is the most compatible. Were these people unaware of the booktype setting?
     
  20. Mort81

    Mort81 Senior member

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    The only real advantage of booktyping to dvdrom would be if you own several set top players or pass your backups around to family and friends and want the best assurance they will play in all players.

    Price is not really a factor any longer since the cost of -r and +r media is very competative anymore.

    There are still a few that are unaware of the advantages of dvdrom, their burner is not capable of bitsetting, or since dvd-r is second most compatable and work fine in their players, they choose not to mess with bitsetting.

    Personally I prefer dvdrom since my burner is capable (once it's set to dvdrom it booktypes all +r media dvdrom unless I change it back), my dvdrw performs better with +r media, and I want my backups to be the most compatable they possibly can.
     

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