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Please build my home theater.

Discussion in 'Receivers and amplifiers' started by mingman82, Mar 10, 2007.

  1. mingman82

    mingman82 Member

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    Hey guys not sure if anyone is interested in doing this for me but ill just throw this out there. My budget is 2000$ (from a bose system that i will be returning now after reading some of the posts about bose) I can go over about 500 if need be. I have a room that is about 16 x 25 ft box. I love power and want the system to sound great. Towers or bookshelf are fine prefer bookshelf though. And I love a base that rumbles the house. I dont need a dvd/receiver combo just a receiver. And prefer 5 speakers (center, 2 front, 2 rear) I am a total noob when it comes to this kind of stuff and just dont know where to start. Ummm not sure what else you need but if you need more just let me know...Hope someone is in the mood to do this, thanks
     
  2. mingman82

    mingman82 Member

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    No way to edit your post? Well anyway figured you might want to know what t.v. I have its a Sony BRAVIA 46" 1080p Flat-Panel LCD HDTV

    Model: KDL46XBR2



     
  3. gerry1

    gerry1 Guest

    Hello Mingman! Welcome to afterdawn. First of all, you're doing the right thing with the Bose...you can do much better for the money.You've got $2000-$2500 to spend which is a good amount of money with which you can truly buy some awesome stuff of really good quality. The one problem with your request is that, when you're talking about really good equipment of high quality, what you're going to get are personal taste of members; all of which are great quality. For that sort of money you could look at Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Harmon Kardons and if you ignore the ghetto blasters on the K Mart shelf, JVCs top stuff gets really good and gives a good bang for the buck.

    The thing you want to remember is that the chain is as strong as the weakest link, if you'll forgive the cliche. A great AVR with cheap speakers will sound as good as the spears can or cannot produce; great speakers with a crappy AVR will only put out what the AVR can do. You won't find all that many 5.1 systems anymore; most are 6.1 or 7.1 but bear in mind that they will run as 5.1 in you want them to .... frankly, I prefer 5.1 over more speakers but that too is a matter or opinion.

    When it comes to speakers, the same is true ... when you start getting up there in the high quality stuff, you're once again talking about a matter or opinion and personal taste. My two favorites are Mirage and Ohm acoustics because they're more sound neutral; some prefer Polk which are much brighter sounding but to me they're brash (again, personal opinion). Axioms are really good, Cambridge Soundworks makes some really good stuff for the money. Lord, there are dozens of good manufactures but the most important thing to remember when you get your speakers is that all five speaker must be timber matched. Either buy you speakers in a "5.1 package" or get five not only from the same mafacturer but the same line. This is a matter or critical importance. You could put top of the line polks and top of the line mirages in back, both awesome, but sound like crap together. Speakers MUST be timber matched. The only exception to this rule is the sub ... my favorites are mirage and klipsch but again ... personal opinion. The sub does not have to be timber matched to the fronts, center and rears.

    What I would do is go to a top of the line store which had good sound rooms (which are likely to be better than your living room but all the good AVRs now have a mike to set the sound of the room). Try different AVRs try them with different speakers, find what your ears like the best then look up independent reviews or post them here and people can help find some. Then look on the internet to see who has the best prices for what you want. A word of caution about shopping on the internet though, make sure the site is a factory authorized dealer because if its not, the warranty is void and you're stuck with the store's warranty....some are good, some suck. But again, with the money you have to spend, there are lots of good stuff of great quality and which is better than which is a matter for your ears and personal taste to decide. About power, don't buy with that as your sole criteria as some do. Remember that with the good quality AVRs, they're talking about the real power, not peak power etc. My living room is the size of yours and my Denon has 125w per channel which is too poweful actually and I have it muted a bit for better control.

    Edit: By the way, you can edit by click on the little icon of a pencil and pad at the top right of your message :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2007
  4. mingman82

    mingman82 Member

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    Ohhh thats where it is thanks :) And thanks for the reply. I suppose I'll have to take a few hours out of my day and head down to best buy and such to get a sound check on the speakers and receiver. So 100w per channel is a pretty good amount? And as far as a sub goes what would you reccommend? Speaker size? watts? thanks
     
  5. gerry1

    gerry1 Guest

    100w per channel is fine; I've got 120w per channel and I've never come close to maxing it. In fact, I've got it a bit muted and the loudest I've gone is 0db.

    There are front firing and down firing subs. Unless you live in an apartment with people living below you or you're using tiny satellites, I'd stay away from front firing because they often violate the most important rule regarding subs and that is a sub should be seen and not heard. Bass frequencies are "directionless"; if you can actually hear your sub, you either have it too loud (yes, there is such a thing), you have it's frequency set too high or (most commonly) its underpowered and straining. The very purpose of a sub is that it takes more power to push the low frequencies and they're not yet managed to really make an AVR that can amplify the entire frequency range equally. They do make "bi-amps" that will amplify highs and midrange seperately, but they've never figured out how to fit the extra amplification needed for low frequencies into the same unit. My favorites are Mirage and Klipsch though some people are real Velodyne fans. I would get a ten or preferably a twelve inch and I wouldn't go under 175 watts though 200 or slightly over would be better. They do make them far more powerful which is o.k too mcuh power is better than not enough in a sub even if you only use a quater of it because again, to avoid having the sub become a fourth front...you don't want to hear the sub if you can hear where the bass is coming from, you've done it wrong. Now, that won't be the case if you're using small satellite speakers because the way they work is to literally "clip" the lower mid-ranges at a certain frequency response and route the lower to the sub. This is not to say that small satellites aren't any good, some of them are really awesome but if you listen to music at all, I'd stay away from the small satellites because it can get weird because it clips the frequency response so lets say you listening to something on piano or keyboards or violas (if classical is your thing) which have a wide frequency response it will get strange because the instruments will be coming out of the sats until it reaches a certain lower frequency where the sound will suddenly stop from the speaker and come out the sub like the guy got up and moved LOL! So stick with bookshelf or towers if you listen to music.

    Edit: This is the time of year where last year's models are really slashed in price so make way for the new; you can get some good deals from the end og Feb to about mid april.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2007
  6. cp1966

    cp1966 Regular member

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    You should be able to get a decent quality AV Receiver such as Denon, Yamaha, HK for $500-$800. As mentioned before, speakers are really subjective to the listener. However, a good name brand means quality.

    I prefer Klipsch with bright sounding horns. Plus, they are very efficient (you dont need a very hi powered amp to drive them loud). You should go listen to a set, as your room is quite large and if you like the sound/music loud, you will need a good amplifier and/or efficient speakers.

    Even if you start with only 3 speakers, front left, front right, and center, be sure they are matched to get the timbre matching which I agree %100 with the other reply, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT. You can add 2 suround speakers later.

    You can get a good quality sub for a very easonable price. Outlaw, which makes great receivers (check them out as well) also makes a decent sub. They are factory direct and offer a very liberal return policy if you do not like them.

    Go to good audio/video store with quality name brand gear to see & hear what they have. Many offer very tempting financing options.

    Speakers, especially, should be auditioned in person so you can hear how they actually sound.

     
  7. JVC

    JVC Active member

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    An excellent speaker system to look at is:
    http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm
    These folks make one of the best subwoofers on the planet, so you know their 5.1 set of speakers are gonna be awesome too. They are only available online, and have one of the best reputations of anyone.
    Good luck with whatever you get.......... :eek:)

    Hey gerry!
     
  8. gerry1

    gerry1 Guest

    HI JVC! Those speakers seem really nice, price is certainly good too. Have you heard them?
     
  9. behrad

    behrad Regular member

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    I dont want to rain on anyone's parade but I am thinking that with the budget of 2k - 2.5K it is going to be very hard to get a decent AVR, 5.1 speakers and a sub!!!!

    Do you guys not think so?

    I will give you an example: I am looking to upgrade my AVR now and I have sort of narrowed it down to three units ( Onkyo 874, Yamaha RX-V2700 and the NAD T61-something ) the cheapest of which is going to cost AUD $1900. Therefore, I can not see how one would be able to get the speaker system and a 5.1 at that plus a decent Sub for the reminder of the price!!!!

    Am I missing something here? Could be that prices for high end audio gear is so much different compared to US prices?

    What prices are you guys seeing for AVR such as the ones I have talked about?

     
  10. gerry1

    gerry1 Guest

    Well, just doing a quick foogle search, I've seen Yamaha RX-V2700s for $900USD, not $1900 leaving $1,600USD which perhaps won't be the absolute top of the line but still damned good for 5.1 system. AUD is Australian? (forgive my ignorance there).
     
  11. JVC

    JVC Active member

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    You can put together a killer system for around $2500. Mine didn't cost that much.

    $1149.00 SVS speaker system + subwoofer
    499.95 HD DVD player from Amazon.com(perfect with the 1080p Sony)
    699.99 Onkyo TX-SR674 from Crutchfield.com
    _____________________________________________
    $2348.94 Total, before shipping on speakers. I think shipping is free from Amazon and Crutchfield. Still will probably total under $2500.


    gerry........
    Haven't heard the speakers personally, but the guys at S&V that have heard them, loved them. They've also gotten excellent reviews. I am familiar with one of their tube subwoofers, and that thing was awesome! Never heard anything even close to it!
     
  12. behrad

    behrad Regular member

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    yes gerry1, unfortunately, AUD is Australian dollars and I say unfortunately as it seems like bits and bobs cost so much more here.

    The list RRP price of the Yamaha RXV2700 is AUD $2,499
    You can expect to pay around the $2,200

    Please see link below:

    http://www.yamahamusic.com.au/products/avit/htavreceivers/RX-V2700B.asp

    So now you see why it is a tad hard getting a decent AVR plus speakers for the 2 grand budget for us here :(

    Good for you guys though... I would not even have to think about the deal if I could pick up a Yamaha RX-V2700s for $900 !!!!!!

    I would buy it on the spot!
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2007
  13. cp1966

    cp1966 Regular member

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    Thats outrageous! An old rule of thumb used to be that you should plan on spending about half of your budget on speakers.

    As mentioned before, crappy speakers will make a great system sound like crap. A crappy AV receiver will probably sound crappy on good speakers. Try to find a balance.

    Like I said before, nowadays speakers are pretty reasonable, as are receivers. but if your budget is $2500 max, I defintely would not spend any more than $1200 on a receiver. Personally, I would would rather spend $1200-$1600 on speakers and get a reasonable receiver with the balance. But, thats just me.

    I have a Denon 3803 AV Receiver which cost around $1200, and i think it is a good receiver with ample power @ 110 watts per channel, driving Klipsch RF7 mains, a RC7 Centre, and RS7 surrounds. But I am considering purchasing a seperate amp.
     
  14. mingman82

    mingman82 Member

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    You know I was thinking about getting that SVS system but...I was really looking for towers for the fronts, and bookshelfs for the back...I actually liked the polks that i was looking at today...but american seemed to be a little on the pricy side. Plus they were trying to sell me a denon which is a good brand but only 85 watts per channel for about $400...but dont know yet still shopping around.

    On a different note...MAN WERE THEY PISSED! that I took back the bose system lol
     
  15. cp1966

    cp1966 Regular member

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    85 watts is plenty, unless your speakers are very inefficient and/or your room is very large.

    Regarding speaker efficiency;

    For every 3db difference, you need twice the power to get the same volume. So, lets assume you get that 85wpc Denon and you buy the Polk Audio Monitor 60 which are rated at 90db. If you were to buy different speakers rated at 87db, you would need a receiver rated at 170wpc to get the same volume.

    $400 for a 85wpc denon is a decent buy. If you were to upgrade to a $800 100wpc receiver, your extra $400 would NOT be well spent if the only upgrade was the wpc rating, because the difference between 85 and 100 wpc is very minimal, and not worth $400.


    I would search for reviews on a few receivers to see what the dynamic range is, some inexpensive receivers do not have much. Meaning they will not play loud during explosions, for example. You want a receiver that will play loud, cleany, and have oomph to blast out during loud scenes (such as explosions).

    Isnt this fun?!
     
  16. gerry1

    gerry1 Guest

    @mingman82 ....cp1966 is right on there. 85w p/c (especially X5 channels with a sub) is actually more power than you seem to think. Marketing has been very successful at making people think wattage per channel is everything ... and on top of it, they usually all lie something aweful .... when some company says they've got 300w per channel, its bullsh** (most of the time)which they get away with by listing things like peak power per channel etc. They're usually around 75 - 100w RMS. A legal lie. The better companies don't do that. With Denon, the price difference is in power (relatively inconsequential differences usually) but also in some of the bells and whistles, some important, some not. The better denons (and now Yamahas) use more sophisticated decoders made by a company named Burr-Brown and the difference is substantial.

    Remember one thing when you get you're new AVR ... read and remember the process of "activating the microprocessors" ...a little yet terribly important action which 75% of people forget about and then wonder why their unit isn't as good as they'd hoped or as they'd heard in the store. Unfortunately, user manuals have gotten so long, boring and involved that it's easy to go brain dead while reading them. Some people read the important stuff and just "wing it" which is o.k. for some folks as set up isn't brain surgery if you've done it before but that little part they overlooked about "activating the microprocessors" is a critical piece of info that so often goes overlooked and which makes the unit what it is.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2007
  17. mingman82

    mingman82 Member

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    Ok just thought that I would let you guys know what I FINALLY decided to get. I ended up with a klipsch speaker system with a RW-10d Sub. RF-82 fronts, an RC-10 for the front (Which I didnt really want to go with but it was the only thing they had) and RS-52 for surrounds. As for the Reciever I went with the Denon AVR-1907. Thanks for the help guys appriciate it.
     
  18. gerry1

    gerry1 Guest

    Nice system mingman! Denon doesn't make any junk and Klip makes excellent speakers! Congrats and enjoy! Be sure to check the manual to see if you have to activate the microprocessors manually; its something a lot of people overlook and lose out without realizing it. Again, good choices and enjoy!...Gerry
     
  19. mingman82

    mingman82 Member

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    Alright Gerry I lied....Just went to crutchfield and they had the onkyo tx-sr674 marked down from 699 to 499. So I had to jump on it...I was really hoping to get the hdmi and now i have it. but thanks
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2007
  20. gerry1

    gerry1 Guest

    Still excellent guy!
     

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