Problem with Audio Sync in TMPGEnc

Well I feel like an idiot ! I loaded the mpv and ac3 in virtualdubmod but it has no sound

 

Well I downloaded VirtualDub 148 AC3 and it tells me "VirtualDub cannot decode MPEG2 video streams" and like I said earlier VirtualDubMod I have no sound - if nothing else I can just multiplex them to view it doesn't take that long

 

Bah, there's always one catch with free apps...now we know what vdubs are
No matter. Just mux in tmpgenc or whatever, to test.

BTW, if you are going to be frameserving, use virtualdub to resize the PAL video to NTSC by changing frame size.
Video, filters, add, resize.
Mainconcept will then encode, without you having to figure out it's crop and scale settings.

 

Ok, so are you saying resize the avi in VirtualDub to 720x480 then save the avi and encode it in MainConcept?? What do I choose in MainConcept - NTSC 29.97??
Sorry but I have soaked in quite a bit so I wanna make sure I have this correct

 

I just noticed something on the videos I just encoded - the originals were in letterbox but the encoded one is in full screen.

Also is there a difference in VirtualDub and VirtualDubMod if the audio is mp3?? Do you just have to use VirtualDubMod if the audio is ac3?? VirtualDubMod is a lot slower than VirtualDub.

I guess I didnt set on the advanced tab source 1:1 VGA and Keep Aspect Ration 2 in TMPGEnc and resize the video in MainConcept - am I correct??

 

OK, obviously you've been deluged with information, and it's difficult to comprehend it all.
Here's a few pointers.
HOW a movie is encoded, depends on the source.
What framerate is the source? (PAL, NTSC, HalfNTSC, 3:2 pulldown NTSC)
What aspect ratio (framesize) is the source? (352x240, 320x240, 480x480, etc) and
What audio type is the source? (mp3VBR, mp3CBR, LPCM, AC3, etc)
Once you know these three things, you can then determine how to encode the file.

We know that your source is 25fps.
We know that it's letterboxed (but I don't know what framesize/aspect)
We know the audio is mp3 (probably VBR).

Here's how I would do it:
Open the video in virtualdub (or virtualdubmod, doesn't matter if the source is avi).
Select Audio, full processing.
Select File, save .wav
Select Video, Filters, Add, Null Transform.
Click on Cropping.
Crop off the black boxes.
Click File, start frameserver (hopefully you have installed the frameserving client already).
Give it a name, and save as whatevername.vdr
Leave the frameserving client running!!!
Open your encoder (tmpenc or mainconcept).
For video source, use the .vdr that you just started.
For audio source, use the .wav you just saved.
Encode the video.

Now for your files, try virtualdub. If it won't work to exctract the audio to .wav, then use virtualdubmod.
Depending on the SOURCE aspect/framesize, you SHOULD resize in virtualdub, then frameserve to mainconcept. If you're using tmpgenc, then DO NOT resize the video.

If you tell me exactly what the current aspect ratio/framesize of the video is, and what the CROPPED aspect and framesize of the video is, (and it's framerate) I will give you the settings for tmpgenc, and/or mainconcept.

 

Ok, I'm lost again (whats new right) LOL.
I know to get the source framerate, ratio etc load in GSpot but I don't know what u mean by "cropped" framerate, ratio ect.
The original file is 624x352, 4:3 with mp3 vbr audio.

Ok - I tried to do step by step what u said and when I opened the video in VirtualDub and went to crop, there aren't any black boxes. Also, I evidently don't have the frameserver client installed, where do I get that? I found what I thought was a frameserver and I installed it but when I run frameserver in VirtualDub it says "Frameclients installed: none"
I'm really sorry for all this - but I REALLY appreciate it

 

If the original video has black bars top and bottom, one would crop those off in virtualdub.
If you open the file, and it has no black bars, then no worries.
To install the frameserver, open the folder where you installed virtualdub, and double click on AuxSetup.exe
Now you may have to restart virtualdub, but you'll be able to frameserve, thus not having to save an edited avi.
Your file is 624x352, with no letterboxing, so you can use it directly in either tmpgenc, or mainconcept.
Either encoder will add black bars top and bottom, if needed, to keep the video aspect correct, and still fit a standard 4:3 TV.
If the video DOES have black bars, then crop it in virtualdub, and frameserve it to tmpgenc.
If you're frameserving it to Mainconcept, then you would resize it in virtualdub first.
eg. The original video is an odd size, such as 352 x 176 (2:1), then in virtualdub, select Video, Filters, Add, Resize, and make it a proper 4:3. In this case you would add borders (letterbox), so it is 352x240 (4:3). Now you don't need to do any aspect changes in Mainconcept. Just encode it to 720x480 standard NTSC (which actually comes out to 704x480, TRUE 4:3, for TV).

 

"If you're frameserving it to Mainconcept, then you would resize it in VirtualDub first.
eg. The original video is an odd size, such as 352 x 176 (2:1), then in VirtualDub, select Video, Filters, Add, Resize, and make it a proper 4:3. In this case you would add borders (letterbox), so it is 352x240 (4:3). Now you don't need to do any aspect changes in Mainconcept. Just encode it to 720x480 standard NTSC (which actually comes out to 704x480, TRUE 4:3, for TV)."

Ok I think I understand what your saying - but how do I know if the file needs cropping or not?? Is there standards and if its not that standard then I need to crop?? Is that what your saying??

 

Exactly. Video files come in any number of sizes, but only TWO are standard for DVD. 720x480 NTSC, and 720x576 PAL.
Yes, you can do things differently than just those two, and they MAY play in any given standalone player, but again, they may not.

If your source file is NOT 4:3 fullscreen (no letterboxes), then somehow, it must be adjusted to play properly on a standard 4:3 TV.
If you actually own a 16:9 widescreen TV, then things get complicated, but we won't go into that here.
So, checking in Gspot, we find that the video is 2:1 or 3:1 or some other non-standard size.
In order to play it properly, so it's not stretched or squished on the TV, it must be letterboxed.
If the source file is letterboxed, but the correct aspect 4:3, you CAN simply encode it as such, but you're wasting a whole lot of bitrate (quality) by encoding the black stuff.
It is better to crop off the black stuff, and then frameserve. The encoder will add the black stuff back on, but doesn't waste video bitrate encoding it. Tmpgenc and Canopus are best at this.

If the video is NOT 4:3, then you can still simply encode, and let the encoder add the black. Again, Canopus and tmpgenc.

When using MAINCONCEPT, because of the way it crops and scales, one must do things differently.
Here is where you crop (if needed) AND resize, to maintain the correct aspect (no squishing or stretching), and still get a standard 4:3 output.

In my example using a 2:1 video 352x176, in order to have it play properly, I need to letterbox it. In virtualdub, resize filter, I set the width and height the same as the source, 352x176, but then I "expand frame and letterbox image" to 352x240. This adds the correct number of black pixels, top and bottom, and makes the video 4:3. I can now frameserve it to mainconcept, and simply use the DVD template to make the video. No messing with aspect/cropping/scaling/resizing settings, which Mainconcept doesn't do well anyhow.

What this all means is, if the video in Gspot reports 4:3 and it is full screen, not letterboxed, you can simply encode as is.
If it is letterboxed, or it is NOT 4:3, then you need to do something to it, so it comes out 4:3, but not squished or stretched.

 

Ok, I think I understand now - I hope anyways Is there a page anywhere that explains how to use Canopus?? I'm seriously thinking about getting it.

 

Click on Help, and it doesn't just shuffle you off to some Web site for documentation. There's two ways to get help, one is the Help menu where you search an index for your desired topic. Additionally, if you click on the Question mark, you get the ProCoder Guide, a separate context-sensitive help area. If that's not enough, you get an easy-to-follow Getting Started booklet in the box if you need to get underway quickly, along with a well-written and surprisingly thorough book entitled Video Compression Concepts by Ben Waggoner. It's quite a Herculean effort at documentation, and represents a laudable effort to shed some light on the complex and sometimes vexing world of video compression.

Short guide here: http://www.videohelp.com/guides.php?link=601
Another here: http://www.geniusdv.com/CanopusProcoder.php
Another here:http://www.digitalfaq.com/convert/procoder/procoder.htm

I think they all deal with Procoder 1.5 and 2, but express should be similar. It has a wizard similar to tmpgenc's, but easier to use.

 

You don't know how much I appreciate your help
I am printing everything out and highlighting the important things.

 

I'll be happy, when YOU are happy with the finished DVD

 

OK - I've gone over and over this that we talked about and here is my delimna. I encoded the video which is 624x352 - you view the video in PowerDVD it has the appearance of letterbox (black on top and bottom) but when I open it in VirtualDub there is nothing there - its the full screen. Now I encoded one in TMPGEnc and one in MainConcept - the one in TMPGEnc is displaying just like the source file (with black on top and bottom) - the one in MainConcept is stretched to fit the entire screen. If I can't crop it in VirtualDub how do I get it to look right when encoding in MainConcept??

I think I figured it out ! (I hope)
In Mainconcept - select MPEG2, NTSC, then in detailed settings it will already be set at 624x352, make sure that "keep proportions" is checked and it should encode just like the original - correct??

 

Is there anyway to fix the .avi file I have that when I encode it - its out of sync?
It's the only one out of the batch that is doing that - I have another copy of it but its crappy quality !
One other question - I have a file that is:
MPEG1, PAL, 4:3, 352x288 - Audio is MPEG1, CBR, 44,100khz
Its letterboxed and I can open it in VirtualDub and go all the way to where I frameserve and the frameserver is for .avi ONLY - any suggestions?
Also, is there any difference in multiplex and simple multiples in TMPGEnc?
Thank you sooooooooooo much

Ok I think I figured it out ! (I hope) - I took the file into MainConcept and set it to encode MPEG2 PAL, unchecked keep proportions - set it to 720x480 - then I cropped and I ran a test and it seems to be fairly good. I can't see where u can view the file when u are cropping so I guess that is just a guessing game. The other thing is the video is kinda blurry - not bad just a bit.

On the .avi that is out of sync after I encode - could I do the method that you told me for PAL to NTSC when its out of sync (even though I know its not PAL) - would that maybe work?

Ok-I'm having problem keeping aspect ratio in MainConcept. I encoded video in TMPGEnc and it came out with black on top and bottom just like the original had (even though its NOT letterboxed). When I encode in MainConcept it stretches it to fit the screen. I thought it was ok because I viewed it after a couple minutes of encoding but I had to view it in Realplayer. For some reason when I encode in MainConcept under Elementary Video it creates a .mpv file which PowerDVD or WinDVD will not play. But if I encode as Program Video it will create a .mpg file which PowerDVD will play. So therefore I viewed it in Realplayer thinking it was ok - but like u said doesn't keep good ratio aspect - so it wasn't. What is the different in program and elementary video?

 

There's always a way. Without me having a copy of that particular video, there's not much I can suggest to help you fix it, other than what I've already mentioned.

Extract the audio, and transcode it separately, or use the extracted .wav as the audio source when encoding. (use the vdub frameserved video, and the .wav audio).

No.

Try it, but I doubt it.

This is correct. Tmpgenc keeps the video the correct aspect, and puts the black in if needed to fill a 4:3 TV screen, otherwise it's all stretched.

This is why I said you had to crop/resize in virtualdub, and then frameserve to Mainconcept. It cannot letterbox properly.

Rename it to .m2v then it will play.

 

Well I posted yesterday in a new thread :
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/189040
and Minion sent me the program and I extracted the audio with that program and then ran both the resulting audio and the avi thru TMPGEnc and it came out PERFECT !
I can't believe it I fought with that thing all weekend
I didn't want to give up - You can't believe how much you have taught me - I really really appreciate it

Also, if I crop the video (cut the borders off) in VirtualDub then frameserve it to TMPGEnc or MainConcept - I thought I read somewhere that it would still view on the pc just like it was but when you play it on a DVD thru the tv that it wouldn't - is that true? I'm fighting with another trying to crop but then when I view it on my pc it looks the same.

 

Send me the program, I'd like to test it (or at least tell me what it is, I may already have it).
Edit: send to dvdeo(at)shaw.ca please. This addy is disposable.

When you crop the borders off in virtualdub, then frameserve, all the encoder is doing, is encoding the REAL video stream, not the extra black stuff, but it (tmpgenc) also letterboxes as needed, but doesn't use near as much bitrate to do so. You get a better quality video.
Because mainconcept doesn't understand how to letterbox, you must use virtualdub to letterbox it first, THEN frameserve.
By cropping OFF any letterbox, then putting it back ON, in virtualdub, you are ensuring a pure black box. This takes less bitrate to encode than whatever is previously on the video. It also allows you to add more or less, if needed, to keep the real video aspect ratio correct.

A cropped video will play normally on the computer in MOST players, because software doesn't care that your TV is 4:3. If you want it done right, to view on a TV, then it must be encoded to a proper 4:3 aspect, letterboxed or not.

 

Your NOT gonna believe this - I was all finished encoding had double checked all files to make sure they were ok and composed and burned them to a DVD-R and GUESS WHAT - out of sync !!
I don't know what to do maybe someone doesn't want me to burn these.