HD_nut , good to know this ,so i may go with "Direct TV" then being a cablebox will not upconvert. now will Direct TV supply that recevier or is that something i will have to buy?
I'm not sure that all cable boxes don't upconvert, I just know of COX RI. If you check your local stores like circuit city, they have Directv boxes for sale... if you're a new costumer... ask Directv about special HD offers for new costumers. I think they have very afforable offers with 2 year lease agreements, not sure give them a call 1-888-777-2454 Also for the record, I didn't buy boxes in 3 years... I have the old TIVO version HD boxes... Directv now dropped TIVO for another line. So I'm not 100% positive if the resolution stays the same if you go to a standard channel like Sci Fi as my boxes do. I would ask for the tech dept instead of talking to billing reps if I had to ask that question. To take guess I believe the new ones must stay in the resolution output you set it for as mine does.
im kinda confused. ive read a few times in this thread... cable boxes out puttin 1080 progressive ? now.. thats impossible is it not? right now the highest HD channels can output is 720p? so ..speakin as if i where to buy a new TV... there really is not point on buying a 1080p if your just going to watch HD channels from ur HD terminal box. now if u where gonna use a Blu-ray player... or HD-DVD player..that plays 1080p then yeah.... i just baught my new TV, its runs 720p, but it also has a 1080p processor.. for stuff like a 1080p dvd player.. PS3.. etc. i was talking with a guy that works with a local HD channel..and he was saying to me..it'll be years b4 they can ever output 1080p (or even 1080interlaced) threw a HD terminal... theres just to much that needs to be done with 2days technology.. so.. yeah..that being said..someone wanna clearify on how a digital outbox outputs 1080 progressive?
I'm not an expert on 1080p, I hear two different stories, .. one is that they claim you don't need a real 1080p signal, that if you had a 1080i signal, the set is designed to weave together the two 1080i fields of 540 at the same time. That a 1080p signal will not look any different two.... it is scaling 540 odd into 1080p and then 540 even into 1080p. That is how the 1080i signal is sent out. I don't know. If the 1st assessment is true, it's make you wonder why HD Net in seriously contemplating 1080p to be their signal. Right now 720p is the highest progressive signal being broadcast with the highest temporal resolution of all 18 formats including 1080p.
Getting back to the previous page about comparing 1080 to 720, that to do the test right, it must be compared to a TV that has the matching resolution. In addition to the links I provided that stated the resolution of the eye maxes out at 768x1366 at a normal distance... here are a couple of more links "We've done side-by-side tests between two 46-inch LCD HDTVs, one with 1366x768 resolution and the other with 1080p resolution, using the same 1080i source material, and it was extremely difficult for us to see any difference. It becomes even more difficult at smaller screen sizes or farther seating distances--say, more than 1.5 times the diagonal measurement of the screen." http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5137915-1.html "Surely, you will not perceive any difference in image detail between 720p and 1080i/p HDTV material on the smaller sets from 10-feet away. You need to sit closer and feed your 1080p HDTV set with a good quality HD source to possibly start to see any difference." www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/1080p-hdtv.html This is why I say the 60 temporal resolution of a real 720p broadcast makes 720p #1 on a 768x1366 set.
@HD_Nut I'd like to add to the discussion that since I've installed a HD antenna I am able to compare 720p and 1080i signals from the different network stations. As for one being better than the other in any practical sense, on a 1080p set: I can't tell the difference between the 1080i and 720p signals. Sometimes I think "A-HA! there's the difference", only to check the info and it's one res or the other. I haven't had the opportunity to send native 1080p yet, but for now I have to agree with you on your assessment. Good Job!
I do think the 1080i signal should look better on a 1080p set, because they're made to weave together the 2 540 fields of 1080i. Thanks for comment though, I guess on some sets you can't tell. 1080p & 720p are both great with pros and cons on both sides. But when you see the math, see the tests, and reviews, you can't help to see the Bull S marketing campaign of the FULL HD trickery. That alone pizzes me off. Not just 1080p, but I noticed with almost everything they come out with, they are trying to make it sound as...it's like jumping from standard to HD all over again, and they can't do that. DLP was supposed to be the bomb... remember than LYCOS now OLED & Laser & SED. Notice it's always the latest technology that will blow away & kill LCD & plasma? And it never does.
That's exactly what I have been noticing. More and more I am seeing ads and labels stating "true HD". It's bupkiss!!
The electronics industry is now copying the pc industry. A new thing every year. Bigger faster everything. Planned obsolescence. You need to upgrade at least every year or two. Nonsense!
Like I said they're trying to make it sound as if your jumping from standard to HD all over again, despite you have a HD TV. They can't do it, because you're still seeing the same amount of pixels. They know there are buffs out there that will sell their current set to a friend or a family member and go out and buy it. Plasma & LCD aren't going anywhere, every technology will have it's pros and cons, like they say the SED will have deeper blacks, but the LCD still has that anti reflective look. That feature was something when it came out. Remember HD was first described as looking through a window, then LCD was like opening the window. I remember when DLP was supposed to be the bomb. There are people out there that still say CRT is #1. I for one don't even like them, I see scan lines for one, two they have native interlaced resolutions, they cast reflection. I seen a 32 Sony LCD XBR and a Sony 34 CRT with the same 1080i feed and the LCD beat it by a mile, at least in my eyes. So people shouldn't believe everything the hear or see.
1080i Most HD TV broadcast are in 1080i all blu ray and HD-dvd are 1080i picture not as good but i think if i was planning on having a collection of HD dvd or blu ray i would have to buy a 108oi TV just so my display matches the source. does that make sense to anyone???????????????????????????????
You are talking about an unterlaced resolution based TV... all the good sets out now have improved to progressive scanning. The 1080i signal gets converted to a 720, 768, or 1080 progressive mode and that will look better than interlaced viewing. There isn't much interlaced viewing outside of a CRT. Interlaced viewing results in flicker and less vivid color.
Also, ESPN, ABC, & Fox broadcast in the progressive mode and others are thinking of going progressive like HD net. Here is a couple of site on progressive scanning. http://www.axis.com/products/video/camera/progressive_scan.htm http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/Naming_Proposal.htm Todays de-interlace technology makes 1080i look like the real 720p signal.
Hey I just found a great article confirming all I said. This guy really seemed to have the math & distances down. "What the chart shows is that, for a 50-inch screen, the benefits of 720p vs. 480p start to become apparent at viewing distances closer than 14.6 feet and become fully apparent at 9.8 feet. For the same screen size, the benefits of 1080p vs. 720p start to become apparent when closer than 9.8 feet and become full apparent at 6.5 feet. In my opinion, 6.5 feet is closer than most people will sit to their 50" plasma TV (even through the THX recommended viewing distance for a 50" screen is 5.6 ft). So, most consumers will not be able to see the full benefit of their 1080p TV." To see the entire article.... http://www.carltonbale.com/blog/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/
ok guys did some research and found out the Motorola DVR-6412 Cable Box will upconvert 480i signal to 720p
Hello HD_nut, you have a wealth of knowledge regarding HDTV, etc. I really enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks for sharing all the info. I do understand all the technical details (different types of HD signals, display res, viewing distance, etc.) you had mentioned and they all make perfect sense to me. I'm relatively new to HD so perhaps you can educate me further. I know you are no gamer but with your extensive research and knowledge please can you shed some light on the following: I have a 40" Sony Bravia XBR LCD with native res of 1366x768 or so called 768p. Now when I connect a PS3 to it via HDMI I can either adjust the video display setting automatically (resolves to 1080i) or manually select 480p, 720p or 1080i. OK. Between 720p and 1080i output during NBA07 gameplay, I noticed a substantial difference in picture quality where 1080i actually looks much better as the colors are more vivid and there are more details. Any input on this? That was on gaming. What about watching Blueray movies? I mean, again, in theory, would the 720p setting produce better picture vs 1080i setting? Finally, I also have a Sony upconversion DVD player connected to the Bravia via HDMI. I understand the video source of standard def dvd is 480p. So, in theory, what output setting should I select on the dvd player to get the best possible picture? 1920x1080i or 1280x720p? Your input is greatly appreciated. 0ckc0
