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AMD vs Intel, Building PCs

Discussion in 'PC hardware help' started by brobear, Feb 11, 2006.

  1. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    How can I say this and be gentle (like that was ever my modality to begin with). If you can upgrade your system for $100 and get better performance then I says go for it. But if you start talking $200 or more for legacy devices, then I say forget it. Once you start getting into the $100 then perhaps it's time to start saving for a new system. For $400 one could with the stuff you have now, upgrade to Sandiego core that will out bench both of your systems. For $500 you could get into dual core. So squeeze as much as you can out of what you've got and then leave it alone, it will soon enough become your backup system.
     
  2. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Sophocles
    I just ordered up about $400 dollars worth of parts for a custom build to be done later. I took your advice and got an Asus board so I can tweak my system settings, that was only about $100 more. The nice thing is I can take the inexpensive board and old CPU and let them reside in the high perf case, with the quality power supply and Zalman cooler. That's the future home of an AMD dual core system, if Intel doesn't come up with something better than they have (even the Zalman cooler works with AMD). By the end of the year I should know what I'll be getting, plus I can con the wife by saying it's a Christmas gift. LOL

    When I build the new system, the 3.4 Northwood can go in the Dell case. It has an ATX mobo in it, so the Asus should fit. If not, the old locked Dell OEM board does a decent job for a backup. The native speed of the old 3.4 Northwood allows it to compare to the top end AMD single core processors.

    The future is with the multi core processors. So anyone with a single core, whether AMD or Intel, should start looking at their current single core processor as obsolete and a soon to be backup. Factory builders are now going dual core and single cores will probably be relegated to lower end platforms.
     
  3. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    The way I see it, in an absolutely ideal world, you could get double the performance from 64-bit and double from dual core. I know this isn't exactly how it will work, especially not to start with, but it's a basic assumption. Consequently, take the AthlonXP 3000+ (my CPU), the Athlon64 3500+ (my friend's CPU) and the Athlon64 X2 4200+ (my future CPU).
    Effectively my current runs at 2800,my friend's 3500, and the future 4200, not too far apart. But their potential will be 2800,7000 and 16800, Potentially. This makes a CPU initially a mere 50% faster than my current CPU appear 6x the speed. This may be an ideal world, but I reckon we'll get pretty close to the double mark eventually.
     
  4. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Yep, you gotta watch those blinders (things are rarely ideal). LOL No sarcasm meant. ;) Seriously though, I think most people see the writing on the wall, Dual Core is shaking up the PC scene.
     
  5. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    One wonders, a couple of years down the line, how an FX-57 and an X2 3800+ would compare.
     
  6. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    Brobear,

    I went to the link you supplied and they do have the Northwood 3.4. At $265 I don't think I would gain enough performance to spend that kind of money. I mean that's almost 1 video card for the new one. I'm content (for now) with my present performance. Like I said, shop sales and specials until I have all the pieces.

    Happy Computering

    theonejrs
     
  7. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    Yeah, what was it you had the Prescott up to? 3740mhz? That's not bad, and arguably might perform not too far away from the A64 3500+ sort of level at that OC.
     
  8. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Sammorris
    What's interesting is that the stock 3.4GHz Northwood is comparable the the FX 53 and FX 55 AMDs. It falls somewhere in between if I remember correctly. I posted the Benchmark with the comparison.
     
  9. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    theonejrs

    Getting the Northwood really wouldn't give you your money's worth, it would be better to save the money for a future build.

    Any single core Venice or San Diego AMD is faster than the prescott or the Northwood overclocked to the hilt.
     
  10. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    brobear

    {quote]What's interesting is that the stock 3.4GHz Northwood is comparable the the FX 53 and FX 55 AMDs.[/quote]

    At stock speeds that's true for the FX53 but if both chips were overclocked the FX53 would win because itis great overclocker.

    My venice core out benched both yours and theonjrs' systems by a significant margin about 12% CPU, and 37% memory but then it also beat out the FX55 at stock speeeds and approached the FX57. I do have to say that your upgrade was well worth it. You know how much I used to sing praises of the old Northwood, especially the old extreme edition with to megs of L2.

    I'm going to build a new system with the Venice core in it (can't see wasting a perfectly good CPU and two 1 gig sticks corsair cas2 memory. that the Northwood is up and running. I should sold the parts but now that I have my Raptor in it just begs for another of those coolermaster cases, new power supply, and motherboad.
     
  11. brobear

    brobear Guest

    I guess we'll have a chance to see. ;) The parts order should be in next week. At least we should see how far it will go with air cooling anyway. As for the San Diego processors, the benches show the stock 3.4GHz Northwood scoring slightly higher than the FX 53 and not far behind the FX 55. The 55 scores only about 800 MIPS better (11175-10333) and about 2000 less on the MFLOPS (5400-7475). As I said before, I wouldn't recommend the Northwood as a build option, but it doesn't compare badly with comparable highend AMDs; especially considering that the FX 55 sells for about $810 and the 3.4 Northwood about $260. Anybody seen any comparisons of OC(ed) Northwoods with OC(ed) FX San Diegoes? We all know the AMDs are more friendly to OC(ing).
     
  12. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    Wow that's astonishing, I never would have thought it performed that well. And the extreme edition?
     
  13. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Sophocles, I'd love to have one of the Northwoods with the 2MB L2 cache, but they're priced ridiculously high. Your earlier results with the Northwood are why I upgraded the Dell. Now parts acquisistions are starting to build up. I'm starting to understand your plight. Later when I do the "big" build, the 3.4 will be looking for a home and I still have the 2.8 Northwood and 2x1GB of C3 RAM. I'll probably end up giving a PC to one of the kids to clear some of the stock. Used PCs don't bring much and the kids would probably enjoy it.
     
  14. brobear

    brobear Guest

    Sammorris
    I've not seen any posted benches on the 3.4GHZ P4 Northwood Extreme. The one I saw for sale was listed at about $900 US. Thats slightly over $600 for an additional 1.5MB of L2 Cache. I'm curious as to how the Extreme would compare, but not $900 worth.
     
  15. sammorris

    sammorris Senior member

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    Quite. For that money you could be looking at a set of opterons, or at least something dual core.
     
  16. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    Sammorris

    A couple of years ago the dream build was a Northwood P4 extreme edition. At the time AMD and Intel were more or less running neck to neck (Except for the Barton's which ran as hot as the P4's did). Remember my Venice ran at 2.72 with the stock heatsink and fan and it was hitting just under 12,000 mips (with my current memory I could easily hit 2.8 ghz or higher and hit even 13,000 mips) but the memory scores were off the scale with over 6800.

    Now back to my newegg shopping (getting a new case, power supply, cooling fan, and audio card). It's a good thing my wife favorite subject wasn't math, that' teacher her to get a major in French literature. LOL
     
  17. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    Okay guys I just purchased a few items with which to complete my dual core build.

    CoolerMaster case, I just loved the one that I bought for my Northwood and I was about to tear it apart and use it instead of buying one but I caved in.

    New motherboard! I'm going to use my A8N-SLI Deluxe for my venice core and socket my Opteron into the Premium version, I'm looking for the cool solution.

    Power supply: I went with the Antec 550w true power supply, it's got great ratings and is really better than the Asus equivalent that cost $30 more.

    Heat sink and fan: Yes theonejrs I went with my usual zantec offering, I've never been disappointed by them, they've always drop temps by at least 10 degrees Celsius or more.

    DVD burnier: Went with an inexpensive Asus dual layer burner so that I can move my PLextor to the new build.

    Hard drive: I received my Hard drive yesterday the Raptor 150 gig.

    Has Soph gone nuts, Not a chance I was already crazy to begin with. LOL And I can blame it all on my wife for buying a "How to Build a Home Recording Studio" using a PC.

    I didn't get the sound card yet because it's at the heart of recordig quality. But I do think that I may have found my recording hardware and mixer combo.


    [​IMG]

    Now back to Ebay for a retail copy of XP.
     
  18. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    To All,

    I'm thinking about keeping the Intel as a backup computer. Y'all convinced me that this is the best thing to do. What do you think of this Video card as a replacement for my lowley 5200?

    XFX Geforce 6600GT PVT43AUD Video Card - Retail

    Newegg has it for $179 (USD) which seems reasonable to me.

    Also I've been looking into a 20.1 widescreen LCD monitor. What do you think of this one?

    SCEPTRE X20G-Naga III Black 20.1" 8ms Widescreen LCD Monitor - Retail

    Newegg also has it for $389 (USD). Here's the specs on it!

    Specifications
    Model
    Brand SCEPTRE
    Model X20G-Naga III
    Cabinet Color Black
    Display
    Panel Active Matrix, TFT LCD
    Screen Size 20.1"
    Widescreen Yes
    Display Type WSXGA+
    Maximum Resolution 1680x1050
    Recommended Resolution 1680x1050
    *Please verify your video card can support the recommended resolution of 1680x1050.
    Viewing Angle 176°(H) / 176°(V)
    Pixel Pitch 0.255mm
    Display Colours 16.7 Million
    Brightness 300 cd/m2
    Contrast Ratio 800:1
    Response Time 8ms
    Horizontal Fresh Rate Analog: 24-82 kHz (H)
    Digital: 31-80 kHz (H)
    Vertical Fresh Rate Analog: 50-75 Hz (V)
    Digital: 50-75 Hz (V)
    Connectivity
    Input Video Compatibility Analog RGB, Digital
    D-Sub 1
    DVI 1
    Power
    Power Supply 100V to 240V AC @ 50/60 Hz
    Power Consumption 80w max
    Convenience
    User Controls Power on/off, OSD (On Screen Display), Contrast, Brightness, Clock, phase, H-Position, V-Position, H-Size, V-Size, Graph/Text Mode Selection, Auto-adjust, Color Temperature, Audio Volume, OSD H-Position, OSD V-Position, Display Mode Detection, Show Firmware Version, and Reset: Basic Setting, Position, Miscellaneous, & All Functions
    Regulatory Approvals UL, FCC-B, EPA
    Adjustable Stand No
    Built in TV Tuner No
    Built in Speakers Built-in 2 x 2W Stereo speakers
    Features •Flicker and Static Free
    •PNP: DDC1/2B (Analog), DDC2B (Digital)
    •Less Than VLMF Radiation Standard
    •Panel & base detachable
    •Factory presetting mode: 41
    •Ergotron Arm Compatible (VESA 100mm)
    Dimensions
    Dimensions (W×H×D) 18.8" x 15.4" x 7.1"
    Weight 18 lbs.

    I'm also considering this one for the new build.

    AG Neovo AGM CW-19 Black 19" 8ms Widescreen LCD Monitor - Retail
    19" CW-19 Widescreen LCD Display
    · 8ms Reponse Time
    · 500:1 Contrast Ratio
    · 300 cd/m2

    $299.99


    Let me know what y'all think.

    Happy Computering!

    theonejrs
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2006
  19. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    If you don't play games then what you have is enough and if you do play games then you'll have to look at the type of games that you play. If you're into Quake engine based games or other graphically intense games then even the 6600 won't be enough, but if you just do word processing and surfing the net then what you have is enough.

    The same kind of goes for the LCD screen as well. LCD screens don't deal with fast moving scenes well because they use liquid and liguid is not as fast as light. I can't vouch for its color quality but its latency (reponse time) of 8ms is pretty good.
     
  20. theonejrs

    theonejrs Senior member

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    Sophocles,

    Could you explain to me, what the contrast ratio numbers mean. I have seen LCD Monitors with as high as 1000 to 1 and as low as 400 to 1. Same question for the brightness. what does the 300 cd/m2 mean? What is better and why. I figure that what I learn now will help me with my Dual-Core AMD 64x2 build a little later in the year.

    Thanking you in advance and Happy Computering,

    theonejrs
     

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