Another new build advice thread

The Toughpower is, however, four rails soldered together though, so it's not really a multi-rail design at all.
PC P&C's marketing spiel about multiple rails is a little misleading, it's scientifically sound, but it draws the customer to thinking that multiple rails are a terrible idea, which they're not. I'd be happy with either.

 

You did actually try and pay through it using google checkout right, you didn't just sign up?

 

Advanced circuitry design that automatically enables power sharing between the triple +12V rails in an event of overload on any single +12V rail.

I don't see an advantage to having everything draw off a single rail. It can cause fluctuations under heavy loads not seen from a multiple rail setup. If for some reason a good multiple rail starts getting too much draw on a rail, it will borrow from the others.

I find this statement questionable about the Corsair Unit...As have several reviewers that have looked at this unit...If you go back in the PC Building thread you will find were I discussed this and the whole single rail multiple rail situation...and posted links to articles...

If you look at Tomshardware's Ultimate Build they use a Single Rail Unit...They Switched from the PC Power & Cooling to the New (Single Rail)Ultra...simply because they wanted Modular Cables...However they Did Point out that the PC Power & Cooling P/S was a Better Unit then the Ultra...

I can see you are firmly entrenched in your camp...as I am in Mine...So I doubt either of use will change are views...I believe whole wholeheartedly in the Single Rail Concept...as you believe in the Multi Rail...

I still believe that the Multi Rail System...is Now..Simply a Marketing Gimmick...that offers No Real World Benefit...and is Now Only Used to Artificially Inflate the Output Number of a P/S...



Here is PC Power & Cooling's logic for single rail being superior. I'll say up front I don't buy into the logic. It's flawed because other major suppliers are successfully using multiple rail PSU systems for the higher demand PC systems.

I do not see how the last part of that statement is proof of a Flawed Concept...They Both Work...

Intel officially dropped the 240VA standard in spring 2005...and re-instating single 12V rail power supply units as an accepted standard...

PSU manufacturers and there Marketing Department...or the Spin Doctors...took a grim situation...and turned it 180 degrees...and tried to turn "multiple rails" into some marketing Hype about performance...Which in my opinion it is Not...

In Both cases...If you have enough Juice on the Rail...there is No Problem...However...The Multi Rail System buy its mere design...will always be more likely to Not Have the Juice on the Rail when needed...The Muti rail is fine as long as it is engineered properly...and distributed correctly...The Single Rail Concept Eliminates this potential problem...The Single Rail will always have it on the Right Rail without an ("Advanced Circuitry" which I question) since it only has One Rail...

 

No biscuits?

Lp531
You're right, we're not likely to agree. Like I said, they both work. I'll stick to my reasons and you'll keep yours. I've always built with multiple rail PSUs and only ran into one failure. It didnt't work out of the box. I RMed it for a new one and no problems. I've never run into a problem with not enough power on the rails and I've built some PCs intended for overclocking. As I mentioned, I'm on a PC using a hefty OC that I've been running for everyday use the past year. The PSU is a Corsair HX620. I built for the ability to upgrade. For what I have, the 520 would have sufficed.

 

Hey Pacman you might want to read this...
It seems the Corsair 620 and the PC Power & Cooling 610 P/S might be more closely related then we both thought...
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/hard...ooling-silencer-610w-power-supply-review.html

Here is another good article...comparing the 620 & the 610...
http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/power/ocz/Silencer610/index.asp

And one more...
http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/13271

 

hey leo if u want to cut corners but still need a monitor then try picking up some old laptops (perhaps from a rich neighbor?) with nice screens then just clustering them up so u get some extra power and a fairly inexpensive monitor.

 

if there was ever a sentence to support my backing of the corsair, this is it, from that first article:

 

Thanks Lp531. That makes me feel even better about purchasing the HX620 for my personal system. According to Hardware Canucks, it's the most efficient out of the 3 tested (PC Power, Ultra, and Corsair). But like I said, they all work. I noticed the 3 were actually pretty close in performance. I like the modular cable system and the Corsair is quiet and supplies very clean and stable power. I just bought into the multiple rail hype and it's not let me down, plus the 5 year warranty doesn't hurt. The idea is to buy a good PSU whether it's a multiple rail or single rail design. I don't think I'd worry too much with any of those in a build.

 

Got to agree with you...makes me feel better about the Corsair units...I was Leary of them since this is the First P/S that they put there name on....and they are not a P/S manufacturer...

I still prefer the Single Rail over Multi Rail...It seems that they are much closer to equals then I thought...they each have some benefit to there designs...If you exclude the number of Rails...

The Corsair is quieter at full load...which is neglegable since there is No Quiet P/S under those conditions...The PCP&C unit actually runs cooler with the 80mm then the Corsair with the 120mm...So PCPP&C airflow design works better then the Corsair...

The Efficiency they said was Identical...they said the slight variation had more to do with testing methods the anything else...

The PCP&C is cheaper...The Corsair is Flashier...

They both have equal warranties of 5 years...

I will probably use a Corsair 520 in my HTCP build...The case I plan on using is designed for a single 120mm fan bottom mounted and the Modular Cables could be useful if the location of all the connectors do not interfere with the other components...

Can you buy additional cables from Corsair?..
And how do they Identify which Rail you are plugging into on the P/S?..
I did not see any labeling on the P/S...

Hey greensman...see some good info...can come from a little arguing of points..

 

The Corsair would be great in an HTPC because it makes absolutely no noise. The PC P&C probably wouldn't be too bad in that respect for low power usage, but at high load, it's the complete opposite of silent. The Corsair can make a full 400W before becoming noisy, that's huge.

 

Since Loco is Now a Mod...We need to talk him into a wonderful A-Open P/S...No more Corsair...No PCP&C...Maybe a nice 478 P4...No need for a Core 2 Duo...Lets Go Jetway on the M/B...theonejrs recommends them Highly...some nice PC-100...No need for more then a 128 stick...and lets not forget the benefits of on Board Graphics...(LOL)...just teasing...would never do that to you.....

Now that greensman character...Watch Him Closely...Could you Maybe...Ban Him...Just for Sh!ts and Giggles..

 

I really didn't mean to present that as an argument but it was close to that anyway. As I stated in a previous post:

I think that sums it up pretty good, don't you?? I'll have to make a decision on my next build as I've already said but their will be only 3-4 P/S to choose from. Of course thanks to PacMan and Lp531... You guys are great!! I've learned quite a bit from you guys and especially the articles that were linked to for our benefit; I read every one of them. Thanks for the education and learning experience fellas!! I bet LOCO never thought that he would learn so much about P/S from his innocent little post. hehehe.

LOCO,
That's all bad info if you don't know, especially the "Ban Him" thing!! NOT funny you SOGun Lp531!! I think that's a bad idea!!

....gm

 

Lp531
The corsair comes with cables for each available slot. No need to buy extras. I ended up not using all the ones I have. Corsair sends along a nice black nylon storage bag with velcro seal to keep them in.

Corsair has a forum where you can ask questions. Yours was answered there as a sticky. I wondered about that one too. You're not likely to get the CPU on a rail with other heavy draw components. It's on the fixed power cables to the mobo, which takes up one rail. The attached photo to this sticky shows the outlets to each rail.
http://www.houseofhelp.com/forums/showthread.php?s=4d1a05721d6d7b7df2fc1ff46bc0771b&t=52911
Even if you overload a rail, it borrows from another. But with good layout of the system, that's not likely to happen.

Rumor has it that Seasonic may be the builder of Corsair's unit. One of the reasons I trusted a Corsair PSU early in production was due to the Corsair name. Their parts are built like a tank and the PSU was racking up awards like crazy. They were following in the footsteps of OCZ and other name memory manufacturers by getting into the PSU market. I read the specs and build info and was sold. I'd been using Antec and Thermaltake units before I switched. I used an Ultra or 2 along the line. What can I say, they were cheap (on sale) and did the job.

Here's a site (PC Stats) that did an in depth review and comparison of the Corsair PSU, and included info on other brands with links. http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2035&page=1
It shows the cables, hookups, and included parts.

 

Back in the PC thread or it could have been the OC thread...When the Corsairs first came out...there was a discussion of them and the PCP&C...Where I linked to articles that Confirmed them as Seasonics...

 

Lp531
The Corsair's 620-HX regular MSRP is lower than what Newegg claimed the PC Power originally was. Looking around for sale prices, I found the 620-HX on sale at ZipZoomFly cheaper than the PC Power 610 at Newegg. Finding that, I'd definitely spend the extra $26.91 for the extra features, including the extra 100W over the 520-HX selling at $99.99. Too bad it isn't a permanent sale, looks like now is the time to grab that one. An additional $26.91 shouldn't break anyone's bank.

Newegg - CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 620W Power Supply
Original Price: $189.99
You Save: $20.00
$169.99
($139.99 after $30.00 Mail-In Rebate)


ZipZoomfly Part#: 373110
In Stock:
Manufacturer: CORSAIR
Manufacturer SKU: CMPSU-620HX
Our Price: $146.90
Mail-In Rebate: $20.00 Expires 10/15/07
After Rebate: $126.90


Newegg - PC Power & Cooling Silencer 610 EPS12V EPS12V 610W
Original Price: $199.99
You Save: $70.00
$129.99

@ LOCOENG
Congrats on the demotion. LOL Now you gotta work when you log on.

We have been on topic, though we may have dwelled on the topic of PSUs a bit long. We were discussing what makes for a good PSU. After looking more closely, even Lp531 concedes the Corsair's have turned out to be good. I'll concede the PC Power units deliver, though I prefer multi rail, modular cable units.

As I mentioned before, in my opinion there's no one particular PSU that is the best bang for the buck all the time. I've used a few of the major brands. Still I seem to have best results for the performance systems using Corsair. My next build will probably need more power. So, I'll probably move up to the more powerful OCZs. 620 watts would be too close to the peak power consumption and I like to build with decent headroom.

Take a look at the links I posted above for Lp531 and you'll get an idea of what makes a PSU. Not knowing the specs and build info is why PSUs are an overlooked part of PC building. I learned from people who analyzed each component because some of their builds were performance builds intended for overclocking and bench racing. To really push the envelope there's liquid cooling, refrigeration heat exchange and other exotic methods of cooling off the components. No need to go into those here.

Did you buy the Corsair HX-520? I changed my mind while checking prices. The best bang for the buck (in my opinion) is the 620-HX from ZipZoomFly. For the extra $26.91 it's worth it for the extras. Depending on how you feel about your build, if the lower output is enough, I wouldn't worry about it. If interested, I've done business with ZipZoomFly and they seem to be reliable. The sale is over on the 15th. After that it's back to comparing prices with the better PSUs on sale. There's specific online stores I check, but I'll also check with PriceGrabber and BizRate. It makes the searching easier.

 

I'm on a OCZ 700 Game Stream right now...and...I am not overly impressed with it...Picked it up for $75 last Black Friday...

I would look at the Quad 750 if your just looking for more juice...Good for over 800watts...Can be found in the $170 Range...Don't be afraid of the Single Rail...It works just Fine..

So...were all in agreement that the 610 or 620 for the P/S are his best choices...Gives Loco some Head Room for the Future...

So...Are we all...kind of in agreement...on the rest of the parts picked...as being a Good Compy for the money...and that Ram...might be the First thing...he might want to pick up before the Sales and Prices Go Up...