Another new build advice thread

LOCOENG can correct me if I'm wrong, I got the impression this is something of an economy build. That precludes high end components that help when overclocking. No idea if he's interested in overclocking or not. A system can have the power turned up if the BIOS isn't locked, but the level of success depends a lot on the quality and level of system components. The reason I mention this is that most PSUs will do the job. You need one large enough. After that you get into power savings and how well the PSU maintains a quality output to the system. For an economy job, about any decent PSU will work, so shop according to price while avoiding advertised "stinkers". Same goes for RAM, mobos, cases and the like. You don't need highend HSFs if you're running stock CPU and mobo settings. Likewise, you don't need a mobo with the "bells and whistles" if you're not going to be using them. I've seen some good package deals at TigerDirect. They supply most of the components and usually the builder may have to add a fan and the drives. No idea what's been bought yet, but if this is a beginner build being built on the cheap, a barebone system may be an option.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=333 Parts listed come packaged separately. So, you have the enjoyment of building the system.

In the past I've bought barebone systems from TigerDirect for parts and I've used them a few times as the base for a build.

 

Lp: That would be my assumption. I'm no big fan, but you could do far worse, I suppose.
Greensman: I forget whether it was me that actually posted that link or not, but I've certainly read it. With regard to the product number, FX seems to be a bit of a grey area. I'd say stick to FSP to err on the safe side. The article's either old, or factually inaccurate. I'm hoping the former, because the Thermaltake Toughpower is a good PSU (probably because Thermaltake don't actually make it) but it's not mentioned in that list.
Pacman: I seem to remember barebones from Tigerdirect being posted in the past as a 'hot deals' sort of affair. Most of them seemed to appear back in the days when everybody wanted a D805, just to overclock the behind off it.

 

TigerDirect has reasonably priced kits with C2D processors as well as the older processors. The barebones kits are one of TigerDirect's better selling items. There's a big list of them running from really bare to better equipped. Of course the prices go up, but they're still usually cheaper than buying the components separately. It's worth taking a look at. Of course for the person wanting a highend performance system, that wouldn't be the route to take. Highend performance requires individually picking components for optimum performance, sometimes paying a bit more for what's needed and wanted.

 

The only bare bones system I ever bought was from TD...a P3 900mhz when they just came out...they did the in stock...weeks latter they told me it was back ordered...it arrived 3 months later...by that time I could have bought the same parts at half the price...I did not deal with TD for years after that...probably the single worse customer service experience I have ever had...

As for P/S...I always buy the most powerful P/S that I can afford...I always want the extra cushion for future proofing...I hate buying something twice...Pacman have you seen the New Corsairs...all single Rails...No Modular...and they finally have a 750watt...

Fortrons are Ok...but there are ones out there with better specs...
I would look for the most efficient P/S...
It is more important then the initial cost of the P/S...you will save that initial expense 10 fold over the life of the computer...

 

It's always wise to have some headroom with a power supply, but only up to a point. The vast majority of gaming desktops will never use any more than 300W, so in my opinion buying anything above the 600W mark is completely pointless unless its a very specialist build.
For example, my fileserver and my gaming PC at full load combined would use only 410W. That's two dual core processors (the one at load heavily overclocked), two dedicated graphics cards, and 6 hard drives.

 

When I build a system...I want all the big components to be pretty equal in price...I want it balanced...
I do not spend $200 on a M/B...$200 on a CPU...$250 on a V/C...then spend only $29 on a P/S...and stick it all in a $150 case...to me the build would not be balanced...just like I would not buy a $200 P/S...to put with a $300 CPU...and stick it on a $60 M/B...the parts and prices need to be comparable...now if I am getting a true $200 P/S for $29 thats a whole different story...this analogy goes for all the parts...not just the P/S...

 

Lp
I've got a decent performance oriented PC that was built with overclocking in mind. I've got plenty of fans, a couple of HDs and a couple of optical drives, and a single GPU. The 620W Corsair has never been overburdened. If I had dual GPUs, I might think of adding a bit more power. Between a 620HX and 650TX, I think I'll stick with the HX due to the modular cable system. Corsair and other companies have both multiple and single rail setups. I've not really bought into all the hype. The main thing I look for is stable and efficient power delivery. I'm not sure if I'd go with the 750TX with all the other offerings on the market. When I need a higher output PSU, I'll definitely have it among the ones I check out though. I can personally vouch for the HX power supplies, but I've not used one of the TX units yet.

 

Personally, I think a modular cable system is useful, and I don't see why so many people refuse to use them. I've heard untold scare stories about poorer connection quality with them and so on, but yet I've never heard of a single case where that's been a problem for anyone. The Corsair HX units are plenty powerful enough, and to me, the TX series seem to be positioned in the market segment simply to grab sales from people who are too stubborn to buy the other versions.

 

I could not agree more...stability and efficiency...are the Key...with the cost of electricity constantly going up...I have really started to look at efficiency as probably my main determining factor...there was an excellent interview with the president of PCP&C...where he was talking about the difference between a 70% efficiency P/S...and 80% efficiency...the savings was $65 a year and over $300 over 5 year...I had not thought about the real savings that a P/S can have...It was an eye opener...I will post a link once I find it...
Correction in bold...once I found the article...
Link:
http://www.pcpower.com/about/interview.php

As for Modular...

 

That all depends on how much power you're using. The current electricity cost where I am is 13p per KWh. If I had my PC on full load for 24 hours a day, the electricity cost for the year would be £285. A 10% difference in the efficiency of the power supply is only going to save me £30 at the most, and this is for full load, 24 hours a day. I have no idea how he calculated a $300 difference, there sounds like there's some dodgy maths going on there.

 

@sam
I corrected the math...it was a while ago that I read it...

The article is 2 years old...they based it on 10 cents per kwh...power is now 50% more...Modesto thanks to MID has some of the cheapest power rates in California and it is at 15 cents per kwh right now...and it is just going to continue to go up...

 

So at 15 cents per unit, how did they get the figure of $300 a year?
Logically, that's 2000 units a year. Assuming a year to be 8760 hours, that's a figure of 228W for 24 hours a day, the entire year.
How does a 10% efficiency saving lose you 228W? The PSU must be using 2KW for those sorts of figures...

Edit: Ah, just noticed the corrections. Well, at $65 a year, let's see, a saving of 49W. A bit more reasonable I suppose, but requires that the PSU be drawing 500W all day long. That's quite steep really.

 

No matter how you look at it...an efficient P/S can more then pay for it self over the life of the build...

 

That quote started off with an error. I guess the everything else being equal may give a loophole. For a long time Corsair has been a leader in midrange PSUs and the HX was the flagship. Check out the specs on the Corsair 620HX for effeciency and stability.
http://www.corsair.com/products/hx.aspx

Tomshardware, Anandtech and other websites have given the Corsair HX a good rep and the HX has received a lot of awards.

 

I was not saying the HX is a bad supply...sam asked why some people are hesitant about modular cables...the increased resistance of adding a plug in between the P/S and the components is the main reason...with each connector you increase resistance...every single time...it is just a fact...
This is the key phrase for me...

You would never use a Modular P/S on a professional server...No Way...The modular connector will cost you money every single month...and just adds one more potential problem to the mix...P/S problems are Hard to Identify...most times you won't be sure if it is the problem...till you swap it...

 

If you notice the commercial PSUs are designed for the particular application. The PSU has the connectors for what's included and there are no extra connectors tied back. The retail PSUs are in a universal fit em all situation where the connectors have to meet a number of different configurations. So, you can say both the retail with fixed wiring and the modular units are "consumer gimmicks". Sounds like somebody had an axe to grind with modular PSUs. As for resistance of connectors in wiring, a lot depends on the connector. With the Corsair HX series I've not seen them as hot spots. I've seen computer systems on automobiles, motorcycles, and boats in rougher environments than a home PC will ever face and there's lots of connectors between the computer, power supply, and the sensors.

As I said, from experience I'll go with the Corsair HX any time it fits the requirements of a custom build and I have no problem recommending them. Is it the only PSU I build with? No. However, it is one of the best.

 

@Pacman

No Axe to grind...I just do not see an advantage besides cosmetics...which offers No Appeal to Me...

I am just a Big believer in "Form following Function"...thats why I do not like modular or Multirail P/S...they put "Form ahead of Function"...

 

Lp
I guess function as well as beauty can be in the eye of the beholder. I went with a modular Corsair for a few reasons. They had good reviews, had good specs, and I didn't have to cut any wire ends off to remove the clutter from inside the PC, which would have invalidated a PSU warranty. Plus, less clutter means cleaner air flow through the case as well as the aesthetic value. That's good looks and function working together. Sata drives and round IDE cables help clean up flow characteristics as well. That's what I call function and the modular system adds to the overall effect. I still like it.

I've got an OCed system, which I occasionally monitor when it's running under heavy load. It's been running over 15% OC for over a year now without a PSU problem. Also, the system usually stays booted up 24-7. Unlike a lot of OCed systems, this one isn't a heater.

I'm not trying to convert anyone and I'm not preaching multiple rails over single rails. That's why they make the different models, so each can buy into what they think best. I'll continue to use what I like that has been proven in application and I suspect so will you. If you can show me a single rail comparable to the HX that does more than it, I may consider it for a future build. I like certain parts, but I'm not so hung up on anything that I can't change. Otherwise I'd still be using the same parts I used the first time. That's ok for work PCs, but not for one that's performance oriented.