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Best CD-R Media? Answers possible?

Discussion in 'CD-R(W) Media' started by satorn, Mar 23, 2002.

  1. satorn

    satorn Member

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    I wonder if it's possible to know which brands of CD-R disks are the best, from the point of view of saving valuable data for a long time (say, around 5 years) in a tropical (hot and humid) climate.

    Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
     
  2. fallen_br

    fallen_br Member

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    Well, in a hot and humid climate, you should be extra-careful with storage, and should generally stay away from cheap Cyanine disks, those tend to get fungi on them. Some more well-built cyanine disks are OK, though.
    There's no such thing as a "Best" CDR, it all depends on your writer and the media it likes.
    But, generally, you can't go wrong with:

    Cheaper but still reliable, should still last MUCH more than just 5 years if well stored/kept away from scratches (From best to least best IMO)

    - Prodisc Technology
    - SKC Co.
    - Acer Media
    - Gigastorage Co. (Cyanine 2 great, Phtalo excellent)
    - Ritek Co. (Cyanine good, Phthalo excellent)
    - Ricoh Company (Either by Ritek with their ATIP or by themselves)
    - Moser Baer India / MultiMedia Masters & Machinery Made in India (Silvers/Golds only)

    Expensive but great (I don't buy those anymore, but their quality is enormous):

    - Kodak Japan (Aren't manufactured but still in market)
    - Mitsui Toatsu
    - Taiyo Yuden (Cyanine but still very good)

    Brands that are a big No-no in my conception:(YMMV)

    - Digital Storage Technology (Unless you have a VERY good burner, just forget about those, they're REALLY unstable here because of the Long Strategy ATIP on a Short Strategy disc)
    - Sony Corp. (Gave me really bad performance, wouldn't trust them to last even 5 months)
    - CMC Magnetics Cyanine (Phtalocyanine are said to be OK, but I never tested)
    - MMM&M Cyanine or "cheap-looking" (Some MMM&M ATIP discs are REAL bad, those can be found by looking at the edges, you'll see that the foil is uneven, like, looking a bit like it was chewed...)

    In which country are you? It might help to see what available brands carry those manufacturers' discs in them.
     
  3. cd-rw.org

    cd-rw.org Active member

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    It's hard to determine this exactly, since the writer is one more variable to the equation.

    My list pretty much follows Fallen's opinion. This a roundup of what I have recently used (except Mitsui, which is not available here)

    As dicussed before 4M (Multimedia Masters & Machinery) makes CD-R plants that many producers use. Discs have 4M ATIP.

    Top class:

    -Kodak
    -Mitsui
    -Ritek (Traxdata and many others)
    -Ricoh (sold as HP)
    -T.Y (Some TDKs and many others)

    At least those I have found very reliable.

    Also good in most cases. I consider MPO and Prodisc very good, but I need more data & experiences:

    -4M (Cheaper Verbatims, some MMOREs)
    -MPO (Roline)
    -Prodisc (Smartbuy)
    -Vivastar

    These can be troublesome:

    -CMC Magnetics (Imation, many others too)
    -Maxell (Maxell brand is now turning to RITEK)
    -TDK Corp (made by TDK's are sometimes problematic. Also uses RITEK and T.Y.)
     
  4. satorn

    satorn Member

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    Right now, here in Thailand, Kodak Gold Ultima CDRs are widely available on spindles (50s, 100s, -- but they'll sell you any nimber from 1 to, I guess, hundreds. In 50s, they work out at arounf US$0.30 each. These Kodaks come unlabelled (as to speed), but I've found them perfect at 4X and may try faster. As long as these Kodak Gold Ultimas are around, I'll get as many as I can.

    Mitsui Gold are widely available in Australia (I got some there 2 years ago), and are the best CDRs I've ever used -- long lasting (even in difficult climate), no errors. But they're not available in Thailand.

    What we have here are hundreds of colourful 'brands' of CDR, with made-up names. I guess they're coming in from Southern China.
     
  5. cd-rw.org

    cd-rw.org Active member

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    It would be nice if you could post some CD-R ATIPs and brand info (open 1 thread per brand), so others could benefit from that info too.
     
  6. Pio2001

    Pio2001 Moderator Staff Member

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    I had problems with 2-4 years old Mitsui Media Golden Dye

    ATIP: 97m 27s 55f
    Disc Manufacturer: Mitsui Toatsu Chemicals, Inc.
    Reflective layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
    Media type: CD-Recordable
    Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
    nominal Capacity: 650.85MB (74m 05s 10f / LBA: 333235)


    (though not with all, nor with Mitsui SG, and I never tried Mitsui gold, nor other Mitsuis).
    I may have been CD written with my dying burner, but one of them at least isn't : problems occur in one spot only, that is visible on the CD as a spot a bit darker, with little dots in circle.
    CD-RW.org got the same problem, if I remember well.

    Older Mitsuis SG (5 years old, same ATIP) don't have this problem, but I've got very few of them, so I can't tell.
     
  7. fallen_br

    fallen_br Member

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    How do I physically differentiate between Mitsui SG and Mitsui Golden Dye?
    My Mitsui discs say simply "Mitsui CD-R" and "Up to 24x" on the box.
     
  8. cd-rw.org

    cd-rw.org Active member

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    Pio,

    Yes, I have seen a one old Hewlett-Packard CD-R (by Mitsui) die in way that very much resembles what you describe. A darker area, about a size of a small fingerprint, appeared on the disc.
     
  9. satorn

    satorn Member

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    "It would be nice if you could post some CD-R ATIPs and brand info (open 1 thread per brand), so others could benefit from that info too."

    OK, cd-rw.org, I'll do that. Because of limited time online (I live in a forest monastery in Thailand), it will be about 24 hours before I can get back.

    (By the way, I benefitted a lot from the 'old' cd-rw.org forums, so it's good to see (some of) it back.)
     
  10. cd-rw.org

    cd-rw.org Active member

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    Thanks Satorn.

    It's back. Actually, it was never gone, but will be rebuilt here to a wider audience. Many of the good old folks are here with us.
     
  11. fallen_br

    fallen_br Member

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    This might not be perfectly on topic, but I guess it's not off either.
    You speak of mitsuis. I remember they being said as being Made in Japan, is this true?
    Every Mitsui I've ever seen was Made in Taiwan. Any thoughts on this? Higher/lower/same quality or am I just mistaken about there being japan-made ones too?
     
  12. Pio2001

    Pio2001 Moderator Staff Member

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  13. BillyG

    BillyG Member

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    Top of the Line:
    Fuji or Sony by Taiyo Yuden
    Mitsui
    Kodak Gold
    Ricoh (I think they stopped making CD-R's but I still see them at many outlet computer stores - sometimes they are only 8X & 12X but still very good CD-R's)
    KAO (are they still in business?)
    TDK Certified Plus or Reflex (made in the USA or Japan - dark blue ink)

    Good
    Verbatim DataLife Plus (made in Singapore or Taiwan by Mitsubishi - I have used tons of these)
    TDK Certified Plus (light blue ink) IBM, and Memorex (gold ink) made by Ritek
    Digital Research, Dysan, & Memorex made by Prodisc
    Prime Peripherals and Memorex made by Postech

    Boarderline:
    Imation, Memorex and Verbatim ValueLife made by CMC Magnetics with yellow Phtalocyanine Ink - I bought them accidently, or got them through blank CD-R trades but they have burned OK and worked fine. Only time will tell if they'll hold up.

    Lousy:
    Verbatim ValueLife 24X (a freind who bought a 50 pack at Sam's Club has had a lot of problems burning them with his HP 12X burner. I don't know who makes them - they say made in Israel on the packaging - is this MMMM?)
    GQ - Great Quality made by Lead Data (these are CRAP! - Fry's Electronics sells them really cheap - so stay far away from them!)
    Hotan, Kypermedia, Hi-Val, Imation - or any CMC Magnetics with blue ink (I never could get any of them to burn past 8X - I think they stopped making them)
    Gigastorage
    Princo




     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2002
  14. fallen_br

    fallen_br Member

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    Pio2001: So could those made in Taiwan Mitsui discs I have be the famed discs that Prodisc's supposed to make for Mitsui?
     
  15. satorn

    satorn Member

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    These are the Mitsui Gold I have, bought in Melbourne 2 years ago:

    Mitsui Gold

    ATIP: 97m 27s 55f
    Disc Manufacturer: Mitsui Toatsu Chemicals, Inc.
    Reflective layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
    Media type: CD-Recordable
    Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
    nominal Capacity: 650.85MB (74m 05s 10f / LBA: 333235)

    They have 'Made in Japan' on the label on the disks upper side.

    I'll be getting a shipment of new Mitsui Gold disks from Melbourne in a few weeks (I live in a forest monastery in Thailand). These are newer than those I got in 2000, of course, and are rated at 8X (the ones I have (almost all gone) are un-speed-rated or rated at 4X)>

    Since I need as close as possible to 'archive grade' CDRs, and live ina difficult climate, I appreciate these Mitsui Golds a lot -- I've found them better than anything else, including Kodak Gold Ultima, for accuracy (incl. burning CDs with tens of thousands of small files) and longevity.

    I'd be interested in Mitsui's 'professional' CDRs (Ultra 2, SG Ultra), but have never seen them.

    I know that friends working professionally with CDRs in 1995-7 used only Mitsui Golds, and this involved their livlihood.

    By the way, I'm sorry not to have posted about my Kodaks, TDKs, verbatims, etc -- an emergency translation and proof-reading has come up, and will take a couple of weeks to get done: it really is an emergency, though a non-profit one (the worst kind!).
     
  16. Pio2001

    Pio2001 Moderator Staff Member

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  17. fallen_br

    fallen_br Member

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    Pio2001:
    The older batch I have looks like the first one on:
    http://www.mitsuicdr.com/mt_products/default.htm

    The newer, 24x certified ones have a totally different cover not listed on the Mitsui (Both global and european) or CDMediaWorld site as of yet, but the disc looks exactly the same as it did before. Both of them say Made in Taiwan in the back. The older ones seem to be Golden Dyes, since on the inlay it says, in a small logo on the upper-left corner "Mitsui Gold GD-74" even though they're silver discs.
    The newer ones say simply "Mitsui CD-R".
     
  18. Pio2001

    Pio2001 Moderator Staff Member

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    Ack ! They're older than DOS ! When I burned my first CDRs in 1997, they were already replaced with Mitsui SG. Mitsui Media Golden Dye came around 1999, I think, and now, I have just bought a box of the new 24 x advanced media golden dye.

    BTW, that site is out of date, the Mitsui website is http://www.mitsuimedia.fr/public/us/index.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2002
  19. fallen_br

    fallen_br Member

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    Yeah, I know that site is outdated, but it's the one with the picture of the older CD I have, plus, it's the URL given on my CDs, even on the 24x...
    My 24x don't say anything about golden dye or SG or anything else, which I find really weird.
    They do say "Golden surface for longer life".
    The 24x's back paper is written in both portuguese and spanish.
     
  20. jase

    jase Guest

    The new DST discs are fine in my experience, they no longer have the cyanine ATIP on a phthalo disc :)

    BTW the DST media is fine (even the older stuff) as long as you have a decent writer that ignores the ATIP. If you have a piece of crap like Yamaha or Ricoh forget it. LiteOn, Plextor and TEAC owners will be fine with this media.

    Here's my list...

    Generally good to very good:

    Prodisc
    Ritek (24x+)
    Acer
    Ricoh
    TY
    Mitsui
    Kodak

    Decent:

    Ritek (16x and below; cyanine and "type G" phthalocyanine).
    Princo
    Postech
    Gigastorage 24x
    DST
    MBI
    CMC (although the blue type and some of the phalocyanine is in the lousy category)
    Verbatim blue and 24x Azo
    Fornet phthalocyanine

    Lousy:

    Lead-Data
    CMC blue
    Fornet blue
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2002

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