Blu-Ray Vs. HD DVD - The Polite Debate..

To me the prices of equipment and disks, how much data can be stored etc. aren't really an issue. What matters is can they fool the public into buying into new technologies that offer moderate quality increases in exchange for the end user giving up all control of the product they are buying. Will the public accept a player that requires an internet connection / phone line attached? Or will we simply ignore the product, let it die from lack of revenue and wait a year or so longer for them to release products that aren't based on draconian DRM. If the public doesn't buy the product, they will be forced to release a product the public will buy.

 

The MPAA once put out a news release in which they stated, and I quote:

I have a very, very strong feeling that Blu-Ray is simply DVD w/DRM bundled together. It will be another 5-6 years before TV prices drop that everyone will have a 1080i resolution set. Isn't Blu-Ray simply higher resolution? I don't believe there are any noticeable differences in sound quality. It's not like the existing movies they make have multiple camera angles. Lots of the extra content in these so-called collectors editions SUCK. So what are we buying Blu-Ray for?? What's the big thing about it?
[bold]Let's face the facts here. Blu-Ray is simply DVD + DRM[/bold].

 

I won't argue with you-I'm not having any part of blu-ray or hddvd.

 

Well a lot depends on not just who supports which standard but who will be cheaper, more and more people are buying digital cameras, my sister just started taking a photography class and guess what, she's running out of space on her laptop, she's not going to care about who has the better format just who is the cheapest/megabyte.

 

Well all the analysts predictions I've seen on Gamespot say Bluray will win hands down. But who knows. And it doesn't really matter if it's a big loss for Sony to sell the PS3. It just basically means their end profit is lower. It's not like this is the first time they're selling their consoles at a loss. With all their extras and stuff they manage to get huge profits so if it costs them more then their profit is just less but it'll still be a profit which is more than Microsoft can say. The XBox had a net loss for nearly its entire lifetime. Makes it seem doubtful they make the XBox 360 profitable.

 

Reprint of CDFreaks.com

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"NME to Launch 1920/1080 Complete High Definition Solution on USD 150 Red Laser Players at CeBIT

LONDON, Mar 02,2006
New Medium Enterprises and its strategic partner Beijing E-World Technology (E-World) will announce the commercial launch of their red laser High Definition (HD) standard at CeBIT, March 9-15th. This marks the world's first HD (1920x1080 resolution) optical disc solution using existing red laser technology and its current industrial infrastructure.

NME will unveil Versatile Multilayer Discs (VMDs) with pre-recorded HD content and varying storage capacities up to 40GB, which will be demonstrated on red laser players using E-World's HD EVD technology. Several feature-length films in 1920/1080 HD format will be shown on one side of a single VMD disc in players retailing at USD 150.

The VMD technology of NME provides the capability to store up to 20 layers of content on one side of a disc about the same size and thickness as a DVD, increasing capacity from circa 5GB on a DVD to 5GB per layer of a VMD, up to a capacity of 100GB. Combining this with E-World's HD playback technology enables HD viewing of pre-recorded video content on enhanced red laser players. This represents a very attractive solution for manufacturers of players who, for minimal additional re-tooling costs, can upgrade their drives for greater capacity and deliver low-cost HD viewing to the consumer.

The EVD red laser disc players are fully backward compatible to all existing red laser (CD, DVD, etc.) formats, while the VMD discs can easily be adapted to blue laser technology when and as the cost of blue laser and associated manufacturing processes become commercially viable and affordable.

NME has to-date signed content agreements in India, China, Russia and South America. NME's strategic partner in India, Eros Group, has rights over a catalogue of some 2600 Bollywood movies, approximately 50 of which will be available in VMD format by the end of 2006. Pre-recorded VMD discs will retail at close to DVD prices. By providing consumers with a high quality, low-cost solution, NME expects to see rapid adoption of VMD in these and other markets.

At CeBIT, NME & E-World will be demonstrating a stand-alone player retailing around USD 150 and two bundled packages for HD viewing: a home cinema package made up of an EVD player with VMD technology which, combined with a 42-inch HD LCD screen will retail for around USD 3000 (the same package with a 37-inch HD LCD screen will sell for around USD 2000); and a digital public theatre package playing VMD pre-recorded discs comprising an EVD HD player, a JVC HD projector and top of the range surround sound for around USD 30,000. These will all be displayed in Hall 1, Stand L81 where orders for products can be placed for third quarter delivery. "
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Here's a new player for us.

Add the red laser to the mix. Who knows maybe this is the way to go?

 

The US market doesn't have EVD as a choice. To me its really not a serious candidate. Its a predecessor to the VCD and SVCD formats.

Ced

 

I am guessing there will be loads of companies that will be supporting both formats at Cebit
http://www.cyberlink.com/english/cebit2006/index.jsp?Source=Home

is just one example, both HD DVD and Blu-ray.

As for Sony losing money I think I am with the Gord on this one

http://www.actsofgord.com/Proclamations/chapter02.html

doh! meant to say I am with the Gord

 

thank you...themonk2.....The Acts of Gord is an interesting site

 

I'm with xhardcOre on this one. I think BD is just a bunch of crap. It's simply DVD + DRM. The real reason why they load on all that extra memory is so they can use it all up on their fancy little copy protections. Now, in my opinion, HDDVD will win. Yes, BD may have the "ps3" coming out, but who cares?? When it's going to cost around $900 USD for just the console itself; I think the average consumer will want to buy the Xbox 360 because of the cheaper price. Yes, MS may not include their next. gen. format drive in the 360, but bill gates has planned to create an external drive for the 360 anyways; so really, the ps3 does NOT loosen up the gap between the two.
I think another thing that proves that HDDVD will win is simply the name. Yes, it sounds stupid, but when you think about it, most of the people I see going to the electronics stores haven't "done their homework", so they won't really know what's going on currently in the tech world. If the average consumer walks into a best buy to blindly buy one of the next. gen. format players, I think they will pick the HDDVD because when they think of that name; they think of the previously user friendly and incredibly awesome standard DVD. As opposed to Blu-Ray, where you would have to explain to the dummy costumer all over again that BD is simply a better version of the original dvd. A good example of my point is that imagine you were talking about the tech world and mentioned BD, then further on HDDVD--soon the person you're talking to asks what BD or HDDVD is--which do you think the person is going to understand better?
Also, back to the idea of BD being just DRM + a newer version DVD. I don't like bluray because of the fact that they have all the xtra space on their discs for newer and stronger CP. (I'm all for the Fair Use Act) I even went further on to read a news article about how sony and 20th cent. fox tried to force a CP besides AACS onto the hddvd camp. It turned out to be one of the CP that they created themselves; now I'm pretty sure BD is going to use this along w/ AACS--that doesn't mean that DVD Jon can't break those protections, but I did read that the BD's own CP has potential to cause playback problems in Blu-Ray players.
Another difference is the price. Another reason why HDDVD will win! The average consumer is not going to go out and buy a Blu-Ray player when they can get something for half the price(HD-DVD)with all of the same features. (Take a comparison @ Best Buy's next gen. players) Because the last time I checked, not all Americans were wealthy; most are middle class families that actually have to watch where their money's goin'. With that said, I think most Americans are going to go with the player that can do all the same stuff for half the price. OR, I think as far as gaming goes, the ps3 will have truly no advantage over the HDDVD camp because 1. It's 900 USD!!!2. The 360 will match them buy coming out with an external HDDVD Drive 3. Last time I checked, a lot of the kids in america don't get $900 dollars for their birthday.
Just go w/ the easier choice-HD-DVD. It's got a better name, better price, easier to back-up, and they will be coming out with burners too, so I think that will really bump up sales on the HD-DVD product. Screw Blu-Ray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

 

I just don't think that too many people are willing to throw out their dvd collection and go buy hd versions of what they already have-don't forget that dvds replacing vhs is still going on!!

 

I just don't understand what is so great about HD to those of us with DVD's anyway. Most people can't tell the difference when you compress an 8GB DVD movie to a 4.5GB disk. I have an excellent 720P projector which is connected to a computer and a progressive scan DVD player. If I download an HD movie trailer (played from the computer) and compare it with the same scene from a DVD upscaled from the DVD player, the quality difference is not a big deal. There is a big difference watching a football game on a standard TV and watching one in high def on my projector, but not from a DVD. At this point I see no compelling reason to go to adopt either format of HD. Especially not with all the DRM, headaches and etc. Also I read an article today that said the AACS protection scheme requires the player / AACS device to have its own dedicated internet connection. No other computers or players can be on that connection. No way I am going to pay for two internet connections for a movie player. I think in their desire to rule the world they have lost sight of what a customer may be willing to accept in a product.

 

@ Zerxez

Couldn't have said it better myself; I'm stickin' w/ DVD as long as they're still around!!! I like being able to back up movies hassle free and not have to wait around another program to come out that can break AACS on the new movie formats!!

 

i too am going to stick with DVD's but maybe 3 years down the line i might get a hd dvd player, mainly b/c i thin price will be less then blue ray and also b/c hddvd players will supprot dvd's. and if you are like me and have more than 300 dvd's then.....

 

Nobody here gets it, do you?

BLU-RAY OR HD-DVD WILL WIN.

DVD will be left behind. You know why, cause:

HOLLYWOOD WANTS IT TO HAPPEN.

They want to put DRM in movies and not get them pirated. Why do you think everyone is supporting either format? Blu-Ray also has more backers too, they have the advantage. It's Hollywood's decision, if they want to release movies on BD or HD-DVD, they WILL. If they don't want piracy easily by DVD, they will use AACC with BD/HD-DVD.

Put yourself in Hollywood's place.

Yes, they can force it upon you. What are you going to do when they stop releasing movies on DVD?

This is where the PS3 comes in, it helps Blu-Ray.

Not to mention BD only costs 10% more to manufacture than a DVD, and that's not the overprices, expensive as hell DVD DL. Go look at BD's site.

And as for the PS3 costing $900, what the hell are you smoking?

There's a Samsung BD burner coming out for $500. <-----And that's a writer/burner. The PS3 will have a BD drive, not player. If the BD burner can RETAIL at $500 after all the manufacturing and R&D costs, what makes you think (at least according to Merryl Lynch's report) that the BD drive in the PS3 will cost $350 to manufacture?, once again, it's a READ only drive too, and not even a player, not to mention the PS3 will use it with it's own hardware, eliminating more costs. Merryl Lynch's report also said the BD drive will be the most expensive to manufacture, and is the reason for PS3's high price, well, that's gone now, they didn't do their research.

And how is BD DVD+DRM, what happened to the 6X space.

Here's why BD will win,

1.) Cheapest players, PS3.
2.) There's really no prive advantage that HD-DVD has, if you read that, you would know it only costs 10% more to manufacture than a DVD, just look at BD's site.
3.) MAJOR studio support. Just go look it up.
4.0 The PS3, enough said, fits in with #1, it's players are cheaper than HD-DVD's, why do you think Toshiba priced their lowest player at $599?, cause they also had to compete with the PS3.
5.) Releases 1 month after HD-DVD, HD-DVD's time advantage is now practically gone.

Just like I said, if it succeeds, and it's superior, and price isn't that much of a difference, and if you want it, but don't want to pay for the $1000 players, you have the PS3!

Blu-Ray will win, take it like this, would you like to robbed at gunpoint everyday by someone sticking a gun to your head and taking all your money?, well, now you know how Hollywood feels.

 

Thats not all true marik1234.

What? The DVD is the biggest money maker for movie studios ever! Both Blu-ray and HD-DVD support playback of the DVD format(s) aswell. Did you know that current films are still released, nation wide, in the VHS format?

Well, the Blu-ray player cost 1,000 dollars. How much money do you expect Sony to lose per playstation?

Now lets do some cleanup...

Who didn't do there research? The PS3 wont be out untill november (and pricing hasn't been confirmed so stop talking about how low the price of the PS3 is) the only blu-ray player available at bestbuy is 1,000 bucks while the HD-DVD player is $500. The most expensive HD-DVD player is $800!


Blu-Ray player (BDP-S1)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?type=category&cmp=&id=pcmcat86300050019

HD-DVD player (HD-A1)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...HVAGA?type=category&cmp=&id=pcmcat80500050007

The Blu-ray media is also suppose to cost more than the HD-DVD media.

Why would you go to the competitors site for info?

Look the only exclusive movie studios to bly-ray are Fox and Sony pictures content. I don't know if you know this but Columbia/Tristar is owned by Sony so it doen's really count.

Noone knows when Blu-Ray will debut. I can tell you that Bestbuy hasn't been given a firm date yet (at this point it looks like [bold]august[/bold] at the earlyest!). HD-DVD should be out this week or next week (check-out the estimated delivery dates). But as a shot at both formats, neither seem to be getting the movies they promsissed in time for thier launch date(s). The players are geting here before the media.

Ced

 

By the way, does anyone even know whether the PS3 will even be able to play Blu Ray movies. It may only be a dvd rom game player without the movie decoders. I can play games on my computer right off the disk but I can't watch a movie without the decoders.

Does Sony have to include movie decoders in the ps3? I dont think so. This is one way of keeping the cost down. Gamers don't give a rats ass about movies playing on their ps3. They buy it to play games! Games are not frame by frame movies and don't really need the movie decoders.

 

PS3 tech specs:
http://www.us.playstation.com/NewsStories.aspx?id=2197

BD-Video is supported!

Check-out this artical confirming the PS3 launch month...
http://www.us.playstation.com/pressreleases.aspx?id=335

To answer your question, yes it does.
Ced

 

Very bad logic.

Sony is SELLING their BD player afor $1000, that's not the manufacturing cost, that's the RETAIL price.

And that's a fully equipped BD player, with all sorts of decoders.

Then you have a BD burner, which can write AND read BD/DVD/CD discs. And that's $500 RETAIL. So how much do you think that costs to manufacture? Exactly, and the PS3 doesn't have any of those, it has a BD drive, which offers you the ability to read specific PS3 software and play BD movies at the crappiest level. If the BD burner can RETAIL at $500, and has to make profit and help pay some of the R&D costs, then how dirt cheap do you think it'll be for Sony to manufacture a BD drive?

The BD drive isn't the most expensive part of the PS3, it costs NOWHERE near $350 to manufacture, nothing on the PS3 costs that much to manufacture, I would go as far as saying something(like the Cell probably) costs $100 to manufacture.

And then there's another reason why BD players are expensive besides the R&D cost, licenses and royalties, and seeing as how Sony made BD, you can tell that the licenses and royalties for them would be dirt cheap, since they made BD, this is how they can make the BD drive very cheaply, not to mention that the PS3 will run it through it's own hardware too.

 

Blu-ray, HDDVD-either way-crash and burn.