burn without xbox

The issue at hand is the fact that you can take a generic DVD Rom and put it in the xbox, and it will function properly. Taking the DVD Rom out of the xbox and putting it in the PC will not allow the PC to read Xbox discs. Windows cannot recognize the FATX file system, plain and simple.

 

Yep completely true windows using fat32 cannot view a drive in ntfs and vice versa.

A file is a file anyway and the fact it was stored on any type of file structure is not important. true your ntfs winxp OS cannot view fat32 winxpOS or anyother file structure directly as the protocols don't match. If you download a file from the internet you don't have to choose a diferent file type dependent on wether your pc is ntfs or fat because the file couldn't care less wether its going on ntfs fat32 or fatx.

The point i'm making is your copying a disk by taking an image of the DVD game (ghosting it) not accessing the disk to read from it. Tell me this can you ghost a pc hdd with win95 in fat16 on it using a desktop pc with winxp ntfs. Yes i think so because the pc your using couldn't care less whats on the disk its just creating a raw image.

I have at work ghosted linux HDD using windows pc's and let me tell you ther OS file structures certainly don't match.

The reason as i see it that it cannot be done wat mo with xbox games is because the drive reads in the opposite direction so the TOC is in a diferent place. when you then put the origanal in a pc drive it can't find the TOC because it's somewhere else and so makes up what it thinks is on the disk resulting in you getting the wrong size read back.

If your pc couldn't access the Xbox drive because it's fatx then how the hell can you copy an already copied xbox game on a pc without using your xbox again then...... iv'e copied already copied xbox games myself through winXP on ntfs and let me tell you it hasn't magically changed the game to ntfs file structure because the xbox wouldn't read them.

let me know what you think about that.

 

What i want to know is has anyone put an xbox drive in a PC and took an image of an xbox origanal using copy software. NOT read the disk thats a completely seperate thing dude.

 

Because the two harddrives would not be compatible. Just think about it. What would you use to install a XBOX hard drive in your PC? You have hacked bios to install a pc harddrive in your xbox, but not viceversa.

True, but still, you wouldn't be able to do it. It might not even read the harddrive once you put it in the pc.

 

No mate i'm on about putting a xbox dvd rom drive in a pc then creating an image of an origanal game instead of putting a copied game into pc dvd rom and making an image of a copied game

 

But in response to your answer above why wouldn't read it?

 

Hi dudes, can anyone explain why I can copy a copied xbox game (presumebly ftp method) but not an original using just a pc and dvd encrypter. What is the difference - fatx cant be used as an arguement for this one.

 

I believe it all boils down to the fact that xbox origanals read arse about tit. Thats why a normal drive cannot be used to read. Now normal DVD rom drives can be put in xboxes and they will still play copies but not origanals so why can't an xbox dvd rom be put in a pc and then an origanal could be accessed arse about tit and an image created.


The image is then burnt onto a dvd -r the way any other disk is copied and the xbox mod chip allows it to be played.

This is why when you put a copy into a normal pc dvd rom drive it can now be accessed by the pc and copied to your hearts content it's reading as any other disk not arse about tit.

Sooooooo anyone want to try and make an image of a xbox origanal using a xbox dvdrom connected to a PC.

 

Thanks but I need to logout now as I've got some xbox games to copy!

 

If that was the case then a. the drive wouldn't be able to read DVD movies cause they turn the same direction as any other DVD reader, unless you are assuming that the xbox DVD rom spins the other way for movies? Well I can tell you that that is not the case because you would hear it "realize" that it is a DVD movie and not a game and stop and start spinning the other way.

Notice how you have to patch the .xbe files before you can burn it to a DVD???

Smiff6969: I know what you are saying and it would be nice if that was the case, but unfortunatly it isn't. The DVD Rom in an xbox is no different than one you buy for a pc(for example the DVD roms in xbox's are either Samsung, Thompson or Phillips), and like any DVD OR CD Rom all it does is read ones and zeros. the combination of the ones and zeros determine what the contents of the disc is. To prove they are no different, here is a link to a set of instructions on [bold]How to Connect a normal PC DVD-drive on your Xbox[/bold]:
http://www.xbox-scene.com/articles/dvddrive.php

 

Why would you want to do that anyway?

TECHNICALLY, the drive CAN'T read DVD movies on its own. You have to remember that you need that little attachment to go in the controller socket to read DVD. The little attachment has it's own bios and allows the Xbox to override the regular commands to read DVDs. Otherwise, it can't read DVDs.

Because your PC can't burn games like original copies are made. It burns them from outside in, like it was designed to. When Xbox games are made, they are burned from the INSIDE and then extend outside. That's why you need a special BIOS to allow the Xbox to read other discs.

Oh really? Is that the case? I don't think so. They made be made by the same COMPANY, but they are DEFINITELY NOT the same. Read the bottom of the very link you gave:

NOTE:
1. You can NOT play original discs this way , you will have to reconnect the IDE-cable to the Xbox DVD-drive if you want to play an original games.

But the Thompson, Phillips, and Samsung drives in the xbox CAN read originals. Something's different buddy.

 

If you put a DVD into your xbox without the controller and adapter, IT WILL STILL READ...TRY IT! You just have no control over the movie. The movies still load to the menu. I know they load cause before I bought the controller I could watch movies that played from the beginning right off the bat instead of going to the menu first.

All that is, buddy, is the system doing a hardware check. Like they say at Xbox-scene the xbox is very picky as to what associated to the xbox, especially hardware. So i agree, that there is a difference as far as authenticity, however, all I was saying is that there is not MUCH difference between the 2 drives, and that the drives DO NOT spin the oposite direction for movies/games.

 

Let me just make things a bit clearer as i belive i've probably not explained myself very well.

I didn't mean the drives spin in the opisite direction, ive never said that. I said they read in the opposite direction sorry to be confusing but what i mean is that they read from outside to inside and not the same as all other drives reading inside to outside.

Anyway let me go through all that ive been trying to say (probably not to well).


Xbox drives read xbox origanals from the out side of the disk to the inside of the disk and all other disks the standard way inside to outside. We know this much as the drive will play movies, music all without any modchip or dvd plugin remote modules you can test this out for yourself.

All other pc drives read from inside to outside only.

My next point is that reading and accessing a dvd or cd from a pc can only be done if the file format is compatable. But copying a dvd by raw data (iso) method does not require you to read or access the disk. when you do this all you do is copy the 0's and 1's from one disk and put them in exactly the same place on another disk, you are looking at data in it's rawest form so file structure does not matter. This can be tested by the following, take a linux software cd, put it into a windows pc and copy the disk using raw data method then put the copy in a linux pc and it will work. What you can't do is access the cd copy a file off onto another disk as this would require file structures to be the same. So fatx is not a reason for pc's not copying origanals 0's and 1's don't have any kind of structure there just 0's and 1's.

This is why i believe origanals cannot be copied on a pc.

Xbox origanals read outside to inside
Normal disks read inside to outside
Both spin in the same direction.
only an xbox dvd rom drive can read in both ways

If you put an xbox origanal in a pc and copy it I believe you get a perfect copy of an xbox game (the raw data is read inside to outside then copied inside to outside) but with no boot secter on it(drives cannot write to this part of the disk only pressing machines can do this). So the copy you have made needs to be read from outside to inside just like the origanal. BUT Because the copy has no boot secter I believe the xbox dvd rom drive thinks the copy is a standard dvd disk(not xbox origanal) and tries to read it the normal way inside to outside so the data ends up back to front and the toc cannot be found.

The ONLY time an an xbox dvd rom reads outside to in is if it knows the disk is an xbox origanal and since the only thing diferent to the copy just made and your origanal is the boot secter.

SO it will not work the data doesn't make sense

but

If you read the xbox origanal from an xbox you read the data from OUTSIDE TO INSIDE then the file is sent to a pc and copied INSIDE TO OUTSIDE meaning you have not created a perfect copy. the data is read from one way on the origanal and another on your copy, plus ther is still no boot secter. this means your copy needs to be played INSIDE TO OUTSIDE for the data to make sense to your xbox.

You put the disk in your xbox and it scans for a boot secter, it doesn't find it and treats it like any other disk and reads INSIDE TO OUTSIDE meaning the data the correct way around and this works great.

You can then take that copy and copy that OK as the data is all ready reversed no probs.

Let me recap.

xbox origanal in PC reads in to out.
You then copy in to out
so both need to be read outside to in as they are identical bar the boot secter

because xbox knows it's not an origanal (no boot secter). it reads as a normal disk type inside to out.

but the data is back to front


-------------------------

Read a xbox origanal on xbox outside to in
send to pc
write inside to out
one disk is opposite to other they are not the same. the data is the same but they are wrote in two diferent ways

you then put the copy in xbox.
no boot secter seen so reads as normal disk inside to out.

the disk works

Because you have already reversed the data during the read process, it works.

______________________

Already copied game in a pc (with already reversed data).
read INside to out
copy inside to out
exact copy so it works.

Sorry to be long winded but i think this is why.

Don't just say no and post back please think about it for a while first it makes sense.

If you can get a xbox drive into a pc you might be able to not use the xbox itself.

What i don't know is is it the firmware on the xbox dvd rom drive itself that controls the outside to inside reading metheds upon detection of origanal xbox disks

or

Is it software on the xbox itself that controls it.

 

please excuse my spelling when i type fast all sorts of shit come on the screen

 

smiff6969:
Well said. I read, I thought, and I think I agree with 95% of what you said. The only thing that I can't peice together is:

Thing is, when I first got my DVD burner I definetly knew nothing about burning Xbox games, therefore assumed like all newbies do that it would be like burning a CD. When I attampted to burn it (even in Raw Mode) it only burned something like 13MB... I don't understand what that 13MB consists of. But for sure you cannot burn a xbox game with just a pc dvd burner.
Let me know what you think.

 

Thanks for your post I too have seen this 13 or 14meg file when copying the only thing I can possibly say is that maybe it's not all down to the disk being back to front and having a bootsecter.

lets say that if your pc try's to access it there is no way it can understand fatx so the disk size would be wrong (14 meg say).

But when you try to do a raw copy from an origanal in a pc drive what size is the iso?

if you try to access a dvd movie on pc that too gives wierd file sizes back. But you can still copy it in raw format and get it to play ok again probably down to wierd formats don't forget you have to load codecs onto a pc before you can play a dvd on it.

If you don't the pc can't understand whats on the disk

same thing but we don't have anything on a pc to understand fatx

Have you ever tried making a copy of an origanal on a pc then checked the disk to see how much space was used? You would be able to see if the disk is megs or gigs.

I'm just guessing at this point now. I think though if you could get a xbox drive on a pc and the pc bios detected it ok, windows loaded generic drivers ok and then you could access the drive and possibly put a pc disk in to see if you could access it (the xbox drive can read both xbox and pc disks). The possibly you could put an xbox origanal it and and try to take a raw data image from it. We would then know if the xbox software controlled the 'wacky xbox origanal reading method' or the xbox rom drive does.

I'm not sure but i think the xbox rom drive might, because you can fit a normal rom drive to an xbox (after bios mod) but it won't play origanals because the new rom drive you fitted doesn't have the special firmware microsft wrote for the 'wacky xbox origanal reading method' on it.

The xbox drive can be connected to a pc, it has an IDE port on it but no standard power connecter. I work in electronics and believe I could easily rewire the power out wires and button eject wires that come out the back of the drive (yellow wires) and interface it to a push switch and a standard pc power connector.

what do you think mate?

 

Well I don't know what kind of DVD drive you have in your xbox, but the Thompson wouldn't do it.

 

Yeah, I put a DVD in mine and it doesnt play unless I use XBMC (i'm too cheap to buy a that DVD doggle.)

 

mine works too mate iv'e watched several dvd movies and i don't have a controller and little dvd plugin

 

I gues this answers my question the xbox dvd rom drive is responsible for the booting of the original disks not software on the pc

visit

http://www.llamma.com/xbox/ShoppingCart/samsung_dvd_drive_Xbox.htm

these people explain how to fit a standard pc dvd rom drive that is modified to read xbox origanals.

Wonder what that would do in a pc???