Actually I find it is way more important with VCD/SVCD, a lot of playback problems have been linked simply to high speed burning!
Hey [bold]m8[/bold] i was just using it as an example of things how move on and get faster. I think anyone would get pretty whazzed off if they were burning stuff in pretty quick time, and then all of a sudden they had to wait ages for a burn because they have to reduce there speed. [bold]AND IT WAS ONLY MY OPINION or is it against the law to have one of these?[/bold] OK, i agree with that one!!
Shoey isnt having a go at you or anything mate its just that in all the time he has been on the forum (and myself) there have been endless problems solved by lowering burning speed!
Hi guys... quote all dvd\cd-roms can read AVI format burned at high speeds m8. The same applies when burning (S)VCD! /quote I find that very interesting but you seem to be in agreement about it. Why would that happen, technically? What difference does burning at high speed make that stops some players being able to read? It seems I asked a good question and the answer is very much in the affirmative. All things being equal if you get problems look to burning speed first as a possible/probable cause. And, in fact, to make a good product capable of being read by the widest range of players.. burn at the slowest speed you can put up with.
But just what is the slowest speed people can put up with?? It goes back to what i said earlier, that in this day and age where technology gets faster and better, people become impatient. And i think from now on that is the way it will always be, because in the future when burning will be perfect running at 48x, people may want to burn at 64x, or maybe thats just being greedy?
Hello Shin.... yes, you are still trying to make your point, aren't you? And your point is that technology moves on and must move on and we all want things faster and better and sooner and we get accustomed to it and won't happily go backwards... like that? Mate, I don't think anyone is really disputing it. We (I think... if I may make so bold) all agree with you. The remarks here that don't seem to agree are referring only to realtime, present time, hassles that currently exist - like maybe your mate's old equipment or your intended market's old equipment or you own old crap... We're just talking about dealing with current hassles. We are not at all disputing the benefits or universal desire for technological advance. I asked Henry, and he agrees. So it must be right. regards,
Ok well i'll drop that point (now that i made it clear). But what i don't get is that with media at 39p (pense) per 700Mb disk, in the past few months with Nero 5 i have managed to burn 130 disks full of AVI's/MPG's all at a speed of 40x as a data disk. Not a single problem, so i am quite baffled why people say choose a lower speed, OK it may be able to concentrate on the finer more difficult parts of the burn rather than rushing through it but, i don't know? But the manufacturers must surely test the CD-RW Drives or even the media for different types of files at the maximum speed otherwise there's not much point having them go at that speed 'cos they'll get a lot of complaints. Or am i mistaken?
'pence' that is, shin - and I remember the days when we had to do arithmetic with 12pence to the shilling and 20 shillings to the pound and 21shillings to the guinea.. now there's technology moving on for you.... What you don't get is why people have problems when you don't. Well, we don't get it either. That was my last question - what happens technically that causes these problems? Remember? But get them we do. That's why I'm here on this forum. And slow speed fixes it. It fixed it for me. I've got two fairly modern machines, one more than the other, a modern burner and stock-standard disks that are used everywhere in China for their vcd copying cottage industry. But I got problems. I'm lucky I burned .avi files and found the problems. Usually I burn software disks and data backup disks. Presumably they'd have the same errors but I wouldn't know until I tried to use the software. One bit wrong on an .avi file may be acceptable - those weird corrupt movies you see that have bad pixellation and sound out of sync and even worse errors seem to indicate that anyway. But one bit wrong in an .exe file screws everything. Gotta go... Henry's playing up.. ciao
i thought it was spelt like that but at the time it was aroung 2am. and i'm used to saying it as "p", looking at (pense) doesn't even look write but i still wrote it. Well hopefully my CD-Drives won't go messing me about the only problem i've had was dumping images (BWA) files but that was mild, there were only a few spikes, i had to edit them which was a pian. Touch would that was my only problem... ...but mind you i only tried the BWA with one game i have yet to try others, and you can't determine anything with just one go. THANK GOD FOR FORUMS though ESPECIALY THIS ONE, the amount of stuff i had found out, its FANTASTIC. Who's Henry? "Ciao" r u italian?
Can I get an Amen? (hehe).. You got that right Dela! Same applies when backing up "particlar" cd protection. Many nOObs have troubles with their playbacks simply because they read the image of the protected cd [bold] too fast, and burned too fast. [/bold]The same procedure applies when burning AVI, VCD and SVCD format. Besides, you wait 8 minutes (extra) to burn these formats so what is the big rush? Encoding can be very long on a slow processor....... Shoey _X_X_X_X_X_[small]Certified Computer Technician http://www.afterdawn.com/general/legal.cfm Forum Rules^ Mobo: KT4VL MSI-6712 CPU: AthlonXP Barton 2.5 Ram: 512 SD-DDR (PC-2700) nVidia GeForce4 MX440-8x Maxtor ATA\133 80 gig hd [/small]
Just to add to what you guys have been saying! Burning is really precise deal... It takes very little to screw up parts of a file being burned and keep in mind not every player cd or DVD will be fined tuned enough to make the corrections when things a run just a hair too close.. And complexity of the data is important too.. Copying files from Word perfect onto a CD-R has less complexity than Music and Movie burns. The length of the Burn plays a role! Two songs at 48X on a CD will probably go just fine but you fill that disk up with 20 songs, you better drop it down to 16X.. I almost think the manufatures are really trying to say yeah the CD's will burn at 48X but they don't say the quality will be good! I will say though I have had better success out of certain brand CD-R than others so experiment.. or play it safe burn slow! Even at 4X I can burn half a movie in under twenty minutes and in the long run the data will hold better so you can play it again and again without errors! And that's the talking points memo for today!
Yep shoey, like when backing up securom 4.8, slow speed matter sooo much, crc errors over 16x lol ;-)
So what varies with the speed of the burn? I'll admit my ignorance - I don't know the mechanics (or physics, or chemistry, whichever it is) of burning. Is the laser literally burning a hole? Or is it changing the crystalline structure or something? What do they do to enable a writer to burn quicker (and read quicker) and what do they do to enable a disc to be burned (and read, hopefully) quicker? Shin: I agree, forums are the greatest. Forums and Open Software stuff such as DevC for instance make the internet a totally incredible and valuable place. I get more and more worried that I contribute nothing but just keep taking.... you've got to be really ignorant to post a query that I can answer.... and my software you wouldn't want as a gift... Still... one day.... ciao (no not italian, it's just an archaic habit) Henry is my son. a very laid back kind of guy
The CD burner has a moving laser assembly, just like an ordinary CD player. But in addition to the standard "read laser," it has a "write laser." The write laser is more powerful than the read laser, so it interacts with the disc differently: It alters the surface instead of just bouncing light off it. Read lasers are not intense enough to darken the dye material, so simply playing a CD-R in a CD drive will not destroy any encoded information. The write laser moves in exactly the same way as the read laser: It moves outward while the disc spins. The bottom plastic layer has grooves pre-pressed into it, to guide the laser along the correct path. By calibrating the rate of spin with the movement of the laser assembly, the burner keeps the laser running along the track at a constant rate of speed. To record the data, the burner simply turns the laser writer on and off in synch with the pattern of 1s and 0s. The laser darkens the material to encode a 0 and leaves it translucent to encode a 1. Most CD burners can create CDs at multiple speeds. At 1x speed, the CD spins at about the same rate as it does when the player is reading it. This means it would take you about 60 minutes to record 60 minutes of music. At 2x speed, it would take you about half an hour to record 60 minutes, and so on. For faster burning speeds, you need more advanced laser-control systems and a faster connection between the computer and the burner. You also need a blank disc that is designed to record information at this speed. The main advantage of CD-R discs is that they work in almost all CD players and CD-ROMS, which are among the most prevalent media players today. In addition to this wide compatibility, CD-Rs are relatively inexpensive.
For those of you interested in CD-RW, that is an intersting process too. CD-RW discs have taken the idea of writable CDs a step further, building in an erase function so you can record over old data you don't need anymore. These discs are based on phase-change technology. In CD-RW discs, the phase-change element is a chemical compound of silver, antimony, tellurium and indium. As with any physical material, you can change this compound's form by heating it to certain temperatures. When the compound is heated above its melting temperature (around 600 degrees Celsius), it becomes a liquid; at its crystallization temperature (around 200 degrees Celsius), it turns into a solid. In phase-change compounds, these shifts in form can be "locked into place": They persist even after the material cools down again. If you heat the compound in CD-RW discs to the melting temperature and let it cool rapidly, it will remain in a fluid, amorphous state, even though it is below the crystallization temperature. In order to crystallize the compound, you have to keep it at the crystallization temperature for a certain length of time so that it turns into a solid before it cools down again. In the compound used in CD-RW discs, the crystalline form is translucent while the amorphous fluid form will absorb most light. On a new, blank CD, all of the material in the writable area is in the crystalline form, so light will shine through this layer to the reflective metal above and bounce back to the light sensor. To encode information on the disc, the CD burner uses its write laser, which is powerful enough to heat the compound to its melting temperature. These "melted" spots serve the same purpose as the bumps on a conventional CD and the opaque spots on a CD-R: They block the "read" laser so it won't reflect off the metal layer. Each non-reflective area indicates a 0 in the digital code. Every spot that remains crystalline is still reflective, indicating a 1. As with CD-Rs, as I mentioned in the last post, the read laser does not have enough power to change the state of the material in the recording layer -- it's a lot weaker than the write laser. The erase laser falls somewhere in between: While it isn't strong enough to melt the material, it does have the necessary intensity to heat the material to the crystallization point. By holding the material at this temperature, the erase laser restores the compound to its crystalline state, effectively erasing the encoded 0. This clears the disc so new data can be encoded. Ohh and you guys may know this already but, CD-RW discs do not reflect as much light as older CD formats, so they cannot be read by most older CD players and CD-ROM drives. Some newer drives and players, including all CD-RW writers, can adjust the read laser to work with different CD formats. Another interesting note is that CD-RWs will not work on many CD players, these are not a good choice for music CDs. For the most part, they are used as back-up storage devices for computer files.
So it seems that perhaps the strength of the laser is constant. Hence the faster you go the less time to heat the material. Perhaps fluctuations in material quality influence heating time. Perhaps manufacturers claim a 'borderline' speed - i.e. a speed at which the best quality materials with the laser performing optimally will heat to the required point. Perhaps the supply voltage affects laser performance? Bottom line: if laser strength is constant then obviously greater speeds dilute the heating ability. thanks for the information. regards. ab
hence CBR (constant bit rate) VBR (Variable bit rate) the constant is guaranted to play in all players as vbr aren't
So what - these are marked on burners and we should check for them? I've never done that or known that. A constant bit rate suggests they vary the rotational speed to make sure the linear speed of the track past the head remains constant. Can this be done? Reliably? I can see you'd have a better chance of burning each bit properly if they all have the same exposure to the laser.
