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Changes to the rules and forum functions -- please read!

Discussion in 'Forum announcements' started by Ketola, Aug 16, 2004.

  1. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    I’ve read and then allowed the new rules to reverberate over and over again in my head hoping that at one point or another they’d gel and result in some form of synthesis. I’m still waiting for the results. I’m not really speculating when I say that the new rules are a result of a dwindling and disappearing membership, and that this is an attempt to turn that around. The new rules are however a “double edged sword,” in an attempt to draw new members, will the new rules drive away old members? Will the forum be improved by a new fusion of newbie blood at the expense of those who’ve provided them with their expertise, the answers to their questions all along?

    I still enjoy being a member of AD and I would like to see it continue to grow, but for it to do that it has to have something that others want. It has to provide them with a reason for coming here and staying a while. Will advertisers pay more money to AD to provide them with a clientele whose intentions are to buy nothing in the first place? It’s absurd to think that one can profit from those who intend to take what the want for free. Would you pay to advertise to that kind of clientele? I’m thinking no! My view of the problem is that AD is no longer instep with change, with what people want.

    The forum is cluttered with meaningless irrelevant dead end threads that serve only to confuse and turn potential members away. Look to the threads that are working and the ones that aren’t and then ask a simple question, why! What drives the successful threads? What makes them different from the others? AD became popular as a place for inexperienced people to go and learn how to overcome the learning curve that followed complex DVD back up methods, but time, hardware, and software advances have almost rendered that learning curve irrelevant. All people want from us now, is for us to tell them which product to buy and a few still are looking for learning curve hurtles to jump.


    _
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][​IMG]

    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes (by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 1859-1930)[/small]
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2004
  2. dRD

    dRD I hate titles Staff Member

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    Sophocles: The "disappearing members" aren't definitely the problem, as we have beaten our monthly records in terms of posts per day and new members signing up a day pretty much all the last couple of months.

    The reason for clarifying the rules is simply this:

    As you said, there are still users looking to learn about video format conversions, DVD ripping, etc. These guys come in to the forum and ask:

    "I downloaded this movie X from P2P network and its in .avi format and I'd like to get it converted into a DVDR, how do I do it?"

    Now, for me, that is a potential new video freak, a person who gets a clear instructions or pointers where to start looking (like our guides), gets couple of hiccups, asks couple of more questions and finally succeeds. Falls in "love" with digital video and the weird and wonderful little twists that surround it and eventually is the guy after one or two years who is ready to help the next guy asking "I just downloaded this DVDR from this network and I'd like to get it and 10 other movies squeezed onto one Blu-Ray disc, how do I do it?".

    Now, what has happened, is that the question asked above has been met with "Sorry, no piracy, f%&¤ off." replies, which leads into two options: user leaves and never comes back and probably downloads the movie as a DVDR off the P2P. Or, he comes back and tries to jump through the hoops to make his/her question sound more acceptable like "I have this self-made AVI that I need to convert into DVDR, how do I do it?" which is rather pointless, for various reasons, most them mentioned in this thread already.

    So, that's why. We still don't want to encourage piracy, but simply try not to scare people off who have a valid a/v question to ask, but just can't "say it with a straight face" because of the fear of getting booted.
     
  3. Dela

    Dela Administrator Staff Member

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    I seem to remember a case where a user asked a question about a movie download from P2P and why it wasnt working! I seem to remember an admin answering that question without flaming that user. Who was that user again???? Oh ye, It was me :) and the Admin was, dRD! lol

    Now come forth a year and a half, if I asked the same question, I would have gotten answers like "f**k off, no piracy posting here, read the rules a$$hole" and eventually ended up being banned.

    Now that would have sucked! lol
     
  4. Doc409

    Doc409 Active member

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    Dela, your comment hits the nail on the head about my concern over a growing lack of civility (posted above). The thing is, one does not have to ask a question that falls into the category of piracy to have open season declared. This can happen with double posting or any other rule violation. It can also happen to anyone who appears to be too lazy to have researched their question before asking it. The list goes on. I see many of these hostile and/or arrogant responses as totally unwarranted and without purpose ... especially when a kinder, polite approach would suffice.

    In essence, while the definition of piracy definitely needed to be clarified, the piracy issue exposes a more fundamental, deeper issue of how people are treated in general when they unwittingly step over someone's line here. One thing is for certain, if AD was a for-profit company, and newcomers were seen as customers, some members wouldn't last the day regardless of their depth of knowledge. It's my opinion that there should be an overall effort towards basic human civility if AD wants to attract and keep good people.

     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2004
  5. darthnip

    darthnip Moderator Staff Member

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    i totally agree with that, and i think that was a major factor in prompting this rule clarification. It seems as though everyone was on a see and destroy mission to thrash someone that posted a question that shouldn't have been here. It wouldn't be so bad if people knew this site as a place with strict moderators rather than a place where every user is an bumhole. I think using the idea of "let the mods handle it" will straighten things out for everyone. We are more than happy to be the "bad guys" when needed, but it really sucks if most of our members are also viewed that way. I would definately be scared off as a newbie if every person that answered my post yelled at me, but coming from a mod it just seems less harsh since we are here to enforce the rules anyway.
     
  6. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    dRD

    My statement about the dwindling membership was just a stab in the dark and I stand to be corrected if I was wrong, but what I said about dead end threads remains true. I agree that some members have handled the piracy issue a little too aggressively, and it gives the wrong first impression to those who’ve come here for the first time. I do like the link “report an offensive post,” because as darthnip and Praetor knows, the threads that I patron seem to attract malcontents like fleas to a dog. Like drchips if I feel that I can’t answer a question in good conscience then I’ll move on and leave it to someone who can.


    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][​IMG]

    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes (by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 1859-1930)[/small]
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2004
  7. john179

    john179 Active member

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    Not all Newbys do not know what a Mod means darthnip.When i first started on this site i did not really have a clue what a Moderator was to be honest as it was my first forum.Sure i asked some stupid questions and got a few telling off's but that was called testing the water until i got a feel for the place.I had a general idea what a newbie was from day 1 but the differance between senior and mod i did not have a clue so it would have made no differance to me if it was you or a senior who had told me off you we all the same.I must admitt i can take sorry we do not talk about this thanks.

    This i would considered a reasonable response to a question someone is not allowed to answer.You take it on the chin like a man if it come from newbie or mod.Its just the iam pi__ed off with these newbies sort of answer which is bad.
    John179

    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][​IMG]
    Who is the man behind the mask
    A7V8X-X XP2800+,2x120gb,1Gig Ram
    Ati 128mb Graphics 2 x dvd Lite-on 411S NEC 2510A
    os windows xp sp1[/small]
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2004
  8. darthnip

    darthnip Moderator Staff Member

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    that sounds like a good plan to me. Even if the rules say it's ok, if you dont feel comfy answering it, by all means dont! That sounds like a good plan that will suite everyone. It's really no different than not answering simply because you dont know the answer. I dont feel comfy answering posts about certain things so i would never do it. See, i think once the rules sink in and people get the feel of things, everything will work out and we'll be well upon our way to becoming the kick ass place we were in the past (not that it sucks not, but you know what i mean).
     
  9. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    darthnip

    The kick ass place we were in the past?:)

    Perhaps you could elaborate a bit. Since there is no membership drop according to dRD, how has things changed?
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][​IMG]

    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes (by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 1859-1930)[/small]
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2004
  10. darthnip

    darthnip Moderator Staff Member

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    I mean the recent downward decline of the general attitudes of people, and everyone being so quick to jump on anyone that even came close to breaking the rules. Sure you'll always have a bit of that here and there but recently it's been just flat out nuts. One of the main reasons the new reporting feature was added was to help stop actions like that and just let the mods handle it. Then newbies coming in here wont just think that everyone here are assholes. If I were a newbie and posted a question and 5 different people responded by ripping me apart about it, i doubt i would return. This new feature will help with that.
     
  11. john179

    john179 Active member

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    Still how does a Newbie know it sound's better coming from a mod and not another source i do not know.It does not matter if you are a mod or a newbie if you do not understand all the differences so coming from anyone can seem harsh to a newby.Its the way we put it and not really where it comes from to be honest.We all need to be as polite as possible in our answers to these sort of questions.Remember darthnip just becuase you are a mob it does not mean it will sound any less harsh to a new person to the site you persume to much in this case.darthnip all i mean by this is is does not really matter who it comes from because were all individuals it's the way we put ourselves across.Where i work i run two warehouses at night during the week which makes me top dog.But for someone to take a telling off from me may not always seem as harsh as from my supervisors below me its the way you put it across.The harsh way has you pointed out is not always the best way as you point out i agree.But as i say it does not matter who it comes from its the way you do it.


    _X_X_X_X_X_[small][​IMG]
    Who is the man behind the mask
    A7V8X-X XP2800+,2x120gb,1Gig Ram
    Ati 128mb Graphics 2 x dvd Lite-on 411S NEC 2510A
    os windows xp sp1[/small]
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2004
  12. darthnip

    darthnip Moderator Staff Member

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    yes i agree with that to some extent. My point is simple, it is my (and the other mods and admins) job to enforce the rules, not the members. If i was a newbie and screwed up, i would much rather have 1 mod yell at me for it than 5 other people all at once. It makes no difference if you know what a mod is or not. it would still be easier on the newb, the members, and the forum in general if the mods were left to enforce the rules and not everyone trying to take it upon themselves to lynch some poor newbie that just didn't know any better. I hope that makes sense because i really dont see any way of making it any more clear.
     
  13. Jerry746

    Jerry746 Senior member

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    As John179 stated, its all about how the post is handled. The few times I answered a rule breaking newbie, my answer was always stated as a suggestion that they edit their post and read the forum rules. In most cases I received a THANK YOU for pointing out the error. My next reply was that all newbies make mistakes and that those that correct that mistake are always welcomed back. What is so hard about that type of answer. I deal with customer relations at work every day. This is so much easier. It should be up to the Mods to get really hard line if necessary for those that don't take the first suggestions.

    Jerry
     
  14. john179

    john179 Active member

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    I totally agree the mods should be the one to enforce along with the admins.But it will not make a difference to the Newbie.All iam saying is other member can answer these sort of questions as good as everyone else.We all have the right to reply to a post we just have to be careful as to the manner we use.I must admitt i have done this myself and gone off the old rules.But i always tend to say sorry and thanks and even then people say your playing god.I tend to think as soon as someone registers they should be sent e mail copy of rules and what the differences mean between Newbie onwards which you read before you except the on receipt of membership which would be just below.
     
  15. darthnip

    darthnip Moderator Staff Member

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    finally! i think we are finally on the same page now. I think anyone has the right to answer any question if they are able. just because your status might be newbie, that just means new to afterdawn, most people realize that. I also feel anyone with good intention should have the right to remind someone of the rules when they are being broken, thats great and it helps us out alot. What we do not want is a case where someone posts a question and 10 people reply with "you stupid bleep bleep retard bleep bleepity bleep bleep moron, read the bleeping rules maggot!!" and thats exactly what has been taking place. It does no one any good, it makes a newb run like hell never to return, and it makes aD look bad. So you see it's just easier to let the mods handle it if people are just being stupid, but by all means feel free to remind a user if they are breaking a rule. Just do it in a polite manner and the problem usually works itself out peacefully. If they fail to comply, or just get plain ugly about it, use the new report feature and it will be dealt with.
    **on a side note, if you see something that needs attention, or are not sure, I welcome any PM's from users, especially if it concerns the good of aD.
     
  16. john179

    john179 Active member

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    darthnip congratulations on your perfect post i totally agree.I believe we were both firing from the same hip and you just proved it.Could not have put it better.
    Thanks
    John179
     
  17. gbjay1

    gbjay1 Newbie

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    Many months ago I warned about something of this nature taking place. I was wondering how long it would take for RI** and MP** and Big Brother's dark ages impending intimidation to reach Afterdawn? I guess that, now I know and so do all the rest of you!

    It really is a shame what is happening to the Internet and the Web(s) which, started out being a universe of free uninhibited expression, experimentation and technological marvel. Most of us that seek out and join these special forums do so out of intellectual curiosity and the need to share what we know, learn and research with others. Now, in a similar fashion used by a man-monster many years ago (burning books in public and making it law banning anyone from seeking out and reading a book not sanctioned by his government), we have turned the corner allowing more and more intrusions and censorship on our lives. What has happened to the spirit of "FREEDOM"? (If you actually get to read this post, it'll be somewhat amazing)

    G. Bjay!
     
  18. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    gbjay1
    Interesting post.

    I think that the new rules are an attempt to loosen the restrictions that you speak of instead of tightening them. Believe me those thought have crossed my mind many times too.
     
  19. gbjay1

    gbjay1 Newbie

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    Yes, Sophocles I do somewhat see your point. Diplomacy in the face of all issues can be a safe stance, however, in some cases bullies are only interested in seeing their wishes reflected in the fearful actions and reactions of those that they intend to intimidate.

    The scientific adventure and daring of those of us that started on the Internet long before Prodigy or AOL were born, know that we experienced a realm of comunication with the possibility for research and development far past anything previously seen. And it seems that over the past few years there has been a latent desire by some to grasp control over cyberspace. The Internet is not under the jurisdiction of any particular country or entity or individual. Instead, it is a collective in the true sense and definition of the word. No country should have the right to ban what we do, say or how we get there on the Internet! If all of us simply sit back and allow our governments to implement laws in behalf of fat greedy and seedy corporations, then we are in fact allowing ourselves to be as controlled as those that previously allowed the mistake of Hitler using their government and laws to subjugate the very same people that the government and laws were meant to work for and protect.

    It is time for everyone to start a cyberspace fight back campaign. After all, we did not ask MP** or RI** or Big Brother into our living-rooms. Likewise, they have no right in our Forums; P2P or otherwise!

    G. Bjay!
     
  20. Sophocles

    Sophocles Senior member

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    gbjay1

    I agree with what you say. By allowing corporate control over intellectual properties our governments have in effect restricted the learning process and therefore, prevented the continued improvement of those original ideas. Who can truly own an idea? To do so is to stifle the evolutionary process itself. Perhaps AD has realized a need for such changes, but even with that in mind there are still restrictions.
     

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