By 'keeping you honest' did not mean I thought you were lying. No I am sure you are truthful and know what you are doing except I do think you are a bit confused and have miss quoted me terribly. I did have fun with all of you because some 128 br music will sound identical to lossless because it lacks high tones that normally get removed with a 128 BR audio. Except for being slow, Lame is an excellent encoder. It has the least defects and produces several formats to fulfill different requirements. However, at least to me, if you use Black & White film you really shouldn't complain about the lack of color. I tried to explain to you the difference between Lame CBR and Real Media, AAC and WMA CBR. Had you read and understood the link you posted I wouldn't have to explain this again. By the way all the members who joined in this thread are HA members. I know you posted this same query on HA as well. I will try 1 more time... Lame has 4 modes I only understand 3 of those modes. CBR, VRB and ABR. CBR compresses by truncating (removing the high pitched tones) to achieve a specific and uniform bit rate. VBR and ABR use psychoacoustic compression (PC) as does Real Media, AAC and WMA. This removes data you will not hear. It is lossy compression without actual quality loss. Because of how it works, PC is very spotty and can't be relied on to meet any specific compression. For this reason, they all employ truncation to deliver a more consistently compressed product. VBR truncates at a specific frequencies associated with a particular setting. See the table labeled Technical details of the recommended settings in your link. Out of all the compression schemes this is the only method that produces a predictable and uniform quality. At the highest setting the quality exceeds a 320 CRB mp3. (This is what I use.) Real Media, AAC and WMA truncate the highs to deliver a constant bit rate. The weakness of this scheme is the frequencies for compression are all over the board, for instance, if there is a moment of silence, PB will reduce the bits to 0 but the CBR will fill the space with empty values to achieve the specified bit rate. If there is a great deal of complexity, such as a violin solo that produces all sorts of resonance tones the truncation has to truncate much more than usual, cutting out much of the nuances. In a nut shell it cuts out the highs when it is most needed. VBR and ABR will leave the silence at 0 bits. ABR will use that reserve in spots were the PC is poor so ABR will not truncate as much of the highs as Real Media, AAC and WMA in other parts of the music where it is needed most so the quality will be slightly better even though the file size will be the same. Real Media, AAC and WMA produce commercial files to be sold or 'rented' that license agreements forced them to 128 BR. They comply and provide better quality than a 'normal' CBR. For these, the time index is always correct while VBRs and to a lesser degree ABRs do not work correctly. I feel that is a small price to pay for improved quality but that is left up to the user. HA claims Lame is virtually free of defects while HA claims Real Media, AAC and WMA have many know defects. No encoder is perfect they all have pluses and minuses. It is up to the user to decide what issues are important then educate your self to know which provides the product with the qualities you desire. I have wasted enough time on this thread.