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convert PAL to NTSC

Discussion in 'Video - Software discussion' started by fireboy24, Jun 9, 2004.

  1. SickBreeD

    SickBreeD Member

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    I have probably read through about a million posts and thousands of forums in the last three days or so, I joined up to this one cause it seems the best place for info I've come across on this mystic journey from hell.

    anyway I have a question about "MFT" DVD files...
    From what I can tell MFT is just another file format like NTFS, and I was told I can convert possibly through extraction from PAL to NTSC. Since I have not gotten any solid answers I assume that is not the case and it has to be extracted then the vob's converted to NTSC.

    Or is it possible to convert to ISO in NTSC form from MFT PAL (I just know this is a stupid question). I just thought maybe the person that labeled the source file called it pal since it was at 24 fps from the movie reel...but isn't it called telecine? And can't telecine convert to either from file format?


    In short main thing I need to know is do I have to convert to video before converting to NTSC? or am I just getting it mixed up?...sorry for spreading my newb-germs everywhere -SickBreeD
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]The System Has Failed...[/small]
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2004
  2. tachan

    tachan Member

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    I only started this conversion stuff yesterday but am stuck in finding the best method. Can anyone help me 'tweak' this to find a final solution? BTW, I am converting a gymnastics DVD originally taken from PAL DV - so there are already some horizontal block/lines and A LOT of motion.

    [bold]Method 1-PAL DVD (25fps) to NTSC DVD(29.97) using Canapus Procoder, Goldwave[/bold]
    Renamed VOB to .mpg. Drop into Canapus, encode to NTSC 23.976. Used Pulldown.exe to add 3:2 flags. Video is about the same as original. Checked length in VDubMod and did a 'Time Warp' in Goldwave to change audio accordingly.
    -- This worked fine but I wonder if it's really the best and fastest way to do things. Can synced audio be created with Canapus, bypassing the need for an audio editor such as Goldwave?

    [bold]Method 2-PAL DVD (25fps) to NTSC DVD(29.97) using TMPGenc, Goldwave[/bold]
    Demuxed VOB and put m2v file into TMPGenc, checked 'do not rate conversion' and encoded to 23.976. Used Pulldown.exe to add 3:2 flags. Video is now 1-2 minutes LONGER than original. Checked length in VDubMod and did a 'Time Warp' in Goldwave to lengthen audio accordingly.
    -- Video seemed okay. No noticable difference with other methods.

    [bold]Method 3-PAL DVD (25fps) to NTSC DVD(29.97) using Avisynth, DVD2AVI, TMPGenc (video only)[/bold]
    Followed method described at http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/index.html under "VI. PAL (Video) DVD (25i Fps) -> NTSC DVD (29.97i Fps)". Script as follows:
    -- Video seemed fine and was 4-5 minutes SHORTER than the original.

    [bold]Method 4-PAL DVD (25fps) to NTSC DVD(29.97) using Avisynth, DGMPGDec, VDubMod, TMPGenc (video only)[/bold]
    Followed method described at http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=531475 posted by Xesdeeni. Used DGIndex to get .d2v and .wav file. Opened .avs into TMPGenc under video input. Script as follows:
    -- Video seemed fine but only did a few minutes to see if the script works. Looked the same as Method 2 but seemed a bit smoother.

    Can't figure out how to do audio with avisynth. I've read about some Assume command but have no clue where to put it, how to reference the audio file, and how to encode it with tmpgenc setting (ES vs System streams,etc). Minion, you mentioned that you do both the audio and video through Avisynth. Can you or someone else please post a full .avs script I could use and tell me how get the audio too? Also, I have NO idea how the video compares in each method as I cannot spot any differences.

    Thank you so much,
    tachan
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2004
  3. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    For going from Interlaced Pal DV AVI to NTSC I use these commands for the Frame Rate...

    LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\dgbob.dll")
    DirectShowSource("C:\Interlaced Pal to NTSC.avi")
    DGBob(order=1,mode=0)
    ASSumeFPS(23.976fps,True)

    Useing this Script it uses the Bob deinterlacer to convert the Interlaced DV into True progressive and the AssumeFPS(23.976,True) command slows down the Video and the Audio to 23.976fps and then when you encode it you just add the 2:3 Pulldown flags to make it 29.976fps or you can encode it to Mpeg2 at 23.976fps and use something like "DoPulldown" or "Pulldown.EXE" to add the 2:3 Pulldown flags after encodeing to mpeg2....

    If you are encodeing From a Pal DVD to NTSC then you Most likely just need to add the "AssumeFPS(23.976,True) Command because the Video is Most likely Progressive and the Frame rate just needs to be Slowed down to 23.976fps and the 2:3 Pulldown Flags just need to be added to make it 29.976fps....

    If you are encodeing from a Pal DVD you can try useing the "AC3Source.dll" filter so you can load the Dolby AC3 audio useing AVISynth or you can Just wait till after encodeing the Video and then decode the audio and use Goldwave to shrink the audio to the Length of the Video and then re-encode the audio either back to AC3 or to Mpeg1 Layer 2 and then author the files to DVD....

    If you don"t know how to Shrink/Stretch the audio with Goldwave then let me know and I will tell you....

    Cheers
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]It"s better to be Pissed Off than Pissed On!!![/small]
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2004
  4. SickBreeD

    SickBreeD Member

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    thanx for the info...with a little luck I should be watching van helsing sometime tonight lol...just gotta get canopus procoder installed.

    I got ahold of two versions
    (MFT DVD) Can't get it to play in english, not sure if it's true but might be a straight copy of the original movie (telecine?)
    &
    (PAL DVD)- I will get this one working but it would be nice to see the quality difference in the mft version.
    _X_X_X_X_X_[small]The System Has Failed...[/small]
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2004
  5. wombats

    wombats Member

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    I've been following this thread for awhile now, basically because I'm stuck as well with the PAL->NTSC conversion process. Here is my dilema, I think it might be quite a bit simpler since I'm staying in AVI format and don't need to go to .mpg2 or DVD yet.

    I recorded a show with 2 cameras. 1 NTSC, 1 PAL. I have imported both into my computer onto my harddrive. So now I have one NTSC .AVI file and one PAL .AVI file that I want to edit together as NTSC (final format). So I've been looking for a way to convert the PAL footage to NTSC before I go on to edit in Adobe Premiere. Minion mentioned Canopus but that is super expensive, as well as Atlantis (which I have downloaded and verified the demo seems to do a good job).

    How should I proceed with this? I also have Adobe After Effects but have had no luck finding documentation on PAL->NTSC .AVI conversion with it.

    Thank you very much for any help!
    I appreciate it as I am stuck in the road!
    -Wombats
     
  6. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    Well you don"t have to do anything because Adobe Premier can convert the Pal to NTSC when rendering your Project...
    Most High end editors Like Premier and Vegas 5 can do pretty good Pal/NTSC Conversions so just edit in Premier like normal and when you render the Project it will convert the Pal Material to NTSC....I have found that Vegas is better at Pal/NTSC Conversions but they are both quite good...

    Cheers
     
  7. buckv

    buckv Member

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    I have used Canapus Procoder to convert Pal to NTSC but I am unable to do convert the menus along with it. Any ideas?
     
  8. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    What do you mean by converting the Menu"s???

    If the menu"s are Just Images then you just have to resize them to NTSC resolution and Import them into your DVD authoring program..If they are Mothion menu"s then you convert them the same way you do the Video....
     
  9. buckv

    buckv Member

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    Ok but where are the menus located? I use DVD Decryptor to rip the disc using file mode and then I encode in Canopus using the NTSC VOB template.
     
  10. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    To find the Menu"s you have to rip the DVD in Backup Mode and then Look through every VOB file till you find them...They will not be all together in the same VOB file and there will be other things becides the Menu"s in the Vob files...
    It is best to Just Load each VOB file into something like Tmpgenc and use the "Source Range" feature to scan through the VOB files and when you Find a Menu you want you save it as a BMP or JPG Image and import that Image into your DVD authoring Software as a still Menu....

    It might just be easier to use your own menu"s...
     
  11. SickBreeD

    SickBreeD Member

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    ...So just to be clear on this. it doesn't matter if the video and audio sync up in the previews before conversion? As long as their the same time/length within a range of (.001) right?(Canopus procoder 2)

    (I need to make sure since it's my friends B-Day tomorrow and I only have 1 more DVD-R)
     
  12. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    Yes if the audio and Video are the same length then they should sync up perfectly....
     
  13. SickBreeD

    SickBreeD Member

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    I wasn't happy with the TMPGEnc version too-choppy so I'm now giving Canopus Procoder 2 a shot. I'm a huge perfectionist so I'm definitely learning avisynth when I got more time...too riskythis time around, a little too prone to mental flatualence.

    -SickBreeD
     
  14. SickBreeD

    SickBreeD Member

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    Well before I pull the trigger just thought I would see if anyone knew why or has had the same problem of canopus procoder 2 crashing after the first second of converting...I'm about to just give up on canopussy and go back to tmpgenc, hopfully when I wake up there will be some magical answer awaiting me.
     
  15. wombats

    wombats Member

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    Thanks for the advice...
    I'm using Canopus 1.5.22.0 right now to convert 90 mins of PAL DV footy (AVI) to NTSC.... guess how long it takes? 24 freakin' hours.... 4 hours left. Does this sound right?

    I tried some tests importing PAL footage into Premiere, and then exporting as NTSC. It doesn't work. I burned the final AVI on DVD and all the lame PAL remnants were present... jaggies, etc. I tried several tests with Premiere. I did some initial tests with Procoder using the same footage.... worked like a charm (even though it takes 10 times longer to convert).

    thanx for all the info and please let me know if my conversion times sound right? I'm running on a VAIO P4 3 gig hz. 512mb ram.

    thanx!!!
    wombats
     
  16. Chicoos

    Chicoos Guest

    I got a problem . I have my .d2v file and my .wav file in PAL that I want to convert to NTSC with TMPGEnc. The problem is when I enter the .d2v file , I get an error message that says " Can't Load P3Package.dll " . When I enter the .wav file there is no problem. Any ideas what I can do to fix the problem?

    Thanks
     
  17. buckv

    buckv Member

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    Thank you for the help Minion
     
  18. SickBreeD

    SickBreeD Member

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    !!!!BANG!!!!
     
  19. Minion

    Minion Senior member

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    You get the "Can't Load P3Package.dll" Error when you do Not have all of the Programs files in the same folder...So make sure that all of the Tmpgenc programs files are in the same Folder and that the Main EXE file is not sitting on your desktop as a Shortcut....

    Tmpgenc doesn"t do Proper NTSC/Pal conversions so you will get Jumpy playback and Possible sync problems in the encoded file ,I advise you not to use it for NTSC/Pal conversions unless you know how to do it correctly ....

     
  20. Tovan_69

    Tovan_69 Member

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    I just finished converting pal to ntsc and i noticed that the source file is smaller than the converted one any ideas why? because since now it's bigger in size it automatically split into 2 vob files.

    the original source vob file is .99 go and the converted one is 1.6 go approx. and split into 2 vob files.

    I ran canopus procoder 2 and HT MPEG Encoder 7.0 Pro Author and both output the same size file.

    need help cuz doesn't want to be bigger than the Original one(Source).
     

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