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DVD-Audio watermarks

Discussion in 'High resolution audio' started by stephano1, Feb 24, 2009.

  1. wilkes

    wilkes Regular member

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    Interesting.
    Just tried again with "The Nightfly".
    Burned the ISO image with IMGburn and although the disc does not go into stop mode at 30 seconds, and appears to play, I get no image onscreen & no sound at all. This was using "Use Original IFO".
    Will try extracting the Audio_TS with ISOBuster, and try again.....
     
  2. stephano1

    stephano1 Member

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    Rip the disc with DVDFab5 Platinum in clone mode, check the "copy original ifo" box. do not check the other box. Mount the image in virtual clone drive. Check playback of the AUDIO_TS with WinDVD. Test the playback of the VIDEO_TS in a video dvd player. If the the disc has secial video features that don't play properly, you need to extract the VIDEO_TS with AnyDVD or equivalent program. In that case, copy and paste the decrypted AUDIO_TS from the mounted iso to a new folder. Add the VIDEO_TS extracted with AnyDVD to that new folder. Use ImgBurn ImgBurn in "Create image file from files/folder" mode to create a new iso.
    You do not need the contents of the VIDEO_TS folder for playback in a DVD-Audio player, or the contents of the AUDIO_TS for playback in a DVD video player. You can leave those folders empty, and use two single layer disc, if the AUDIO_TS will fit on a single layer.
     
  3. wilkes

    wilkes Regular member

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    Nope.
    Still does not remove the watermark protection, and all discs still go into STOP mode at 30 seconds in.
    Tried writing from the ISO image generated by DVDFab, and also extracting it out to a folder set & creating a new ISO from that.
    Discs attempted:
    Eric Clapton - Reptile
    Donald Fagen - The Nightfly.
    It just does not work at all.

    Can you please let me know what discs you have successfully cloned with watermarks?
     
  4. stephano1

    stephano1 Member

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    Here is a partial list of copies that play in my Samsung HD841:
    Yes -Fragile
    ELP - Brain Salad Surgery
    Eagles - Hotel Califonia
    Beatles - Love
    Eric Clapton - Reptile
    Dianna Krall - Look Of Love
    Foreigner - Foreigner
    Foreigner -IV
    Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
    REM - In Time
    Deep Purple - Machine Head
    Queen - A Night At The Opera
    Queen - The Game
    Hootie And The Blowfish - Cracked Rear View Mirror
    Three Doors Down
    Metallica - Black
    Fleetwood Mac - Rumours
    I will go to a high end audio shop and try different players.
    I know my Samsung HD841 honors watermarks, on compilations for sure.
    My compilations will play in the Oppo 980HD.
    I have a Plextor PX-716A.
     
  5. stephano1

    stephano1 Member

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    My Samsung mutes playback at 15 seconds on every compilation. Maybe the 30 second watermark isn't detected by the Samsung? There could be a difference in protection level between 15 and 30 second watermarks? I'll look into it.
     
  6. wilkes

    wilkes Regular member

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    It would seem that you're correct from looking at the specs from Verance. I'm not too sure I understand what is really happening here, but there seem to be 2 levels. Both levels are controlled with the CCI bit, as watermarking is controlled by the CCI bit as well as the CPPM.
    To quote from the specs:
    Additionally, we read that
    I wonder if the difference is in the way the CCI bit is set? There are options available from "One Copy, Three Copies, Unlimited Copies" at varying bit depths & sample rates (CD Quality, Full Quality).

    I'd very much like to learn what titles you have successfully cloned.
    None of the attempts I have made have worked, with the sole exception of one that did work, without the "Use Original IFO" checked, but that gave zero picture & zero audio.

    All clones in the Denon players don't mute either - they put the player into STOP mode.
     
  7. stephano1

    stephano1 Member

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    I aquired a copy of "Nightfly". It would not pass watermark detection in my Samsung, even though in DVDAExplorer.exe it says "copy freely". I looked at the files in the AUDIO_TS folder. No DVDAUDIO.MKB was present. I copied and pasted a DVDAUDIO.MKB from a working copy of a different disc to the "Nightfly" AUDIO_TS folder, and created a new image. The modified "Nightfly" disc now passes watermark detection in my Samsung. Explain that.
     
  8. stephano1

    stephano1 Member

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    By transplanting a DVDAUDIO.MKB from a working DVDFab5 Platinum clone into a compilation AUDIO_TS folder, I can now make compilation DVD-Audios that pass watermark detection in my Samsung. I will have to test this in other players.
     
  9. stephano1

    stephano1 Member

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    You can't remove the watermark, but you can lie to the watermark detector. This is true, at least with the Samsung HD841, and maybe some other players.
     
  10. stephano1

    stephano1 Member

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    Transplanting a DVDUDIO.MKB from a working DVDFab 5 Platinum clone into the AUDIO_TS folder of a compilation disc has disabled watermark detection on every disc I tried in my Samsung HD841. I need to verify this with other watermark detecting players. This could be a fluke with the Samsung.
     
  11. wilkes

    wilkes Regular member

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    I just don't know. It's strange though, and at least you can get it working for you - which ain't a bad thing.
    It's also possible that it might be the denons causing the trouble?
     
  12. jjolson

    jjolson Member

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    There are *three* different kinds of DVD-Audio players:

    * Those who doesn't check watermarks at all, will play all clones and compilations. [Oppo]
    * Players that always checks watermarks and refuses to play any watermarked copies. [Denon]
    * Players that start checking for a .MKB file. If one exists, it doesn't check for watermarks and will play a clone. If there is no .MKB file, it checks for watermarks and will refuse to play that disc. [Samsung]
     
  13. manisiutk

    manisiutk Member

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    There is a new paper on subject
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009
  14. 68vista

    68vista Guest

    Can anyone tell me if this is good for all OPPO's?
    Thanks!
     
  15. quicksrt

    quicksrt Member

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    Yes, but Stephano is claiming that copies with watermark "clones" should play on Denons if they appear to be original discs. And that is the object here, to recreate a disc that appears to be an original Stephano claims to have done this.

    I would be one to have a Denon, but I am going to try and do exactly what is said to work.

    Anyway, just wanted to bump this tread up as it is interesting.
     
  16. quicksrt

    quicksrt Member

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    Bump this thread indeed I did.

    Ok, I just decided to start with simply attempting to copy a DVD-A disc with DVD Shrink, you get an image or Video TS and Audio TS file set of files on HDD to work from.


    Deep Purple's legendary hard rock masterwork Machine Head was dropped into the Pioneer DVD-R drive and full back-up was clicked in Shrink. I dropped a cheap blank into the burner knowing that I was making brand new coasters with this. Many coasters were likely to be made.

    But....guess what..... This disc is now playing in my Denon 1600 blasting out not only "Highway Star" but now "Maybe I'm a Leo" is also playing. I got no muted audio, nor any freeze-up on the player.

    I am listening to the stereo layer, and will get to the 5.1 very shortly.

    But I thought that this was going to be harder, and here I got success on first try.

    Amazing! Could the watermarking detection be broken on my player?

    Please God let the 5.1 be intact too!!!

    I'll report.
     
  17. 68vista

    68vista Guest

    DVD-Fab seems to do the job. Give it a try. Remember to save it to an iso file so you can make more than one copy!
    http://www.dvdfab.com/
     
  18. 68vista

    68vista Guest

    Forgot to mention....use the "clone" option.
     
  19. quicksrt

    quicksrt Member

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    Are you selling DVDFab? Or are you just the promotion dept?

    Anyway, my copy of Machine Head has only the Dolby Digital tracks. So it does have stereo and 5.1, but not high resolution PCM 5.1 tracks. But still a playable 5.1 DVD audio disc was made. Al Green hits did not have any audio after copying. REM - Automatic for the People also was copied and played back DD track, not high rez.

    It seems that even if I were to clone a DVD-A disc to heard drive, I would need dual layer discs to burn the data to, as these are all dual layer discs.
     
  20. 68vista

    68vista Guest

    Sorry, but I'm not associated with DVDFab in any way beyond having used it and finding that it works for backing up DVD-Audio disks. I thought I would post that information to assist any forum members who are still looking for a way to do this. Have you found something better?
     

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