Gerry...Help! (Receiver suggestions)

I need to purchase a new receiver for a surround sound set-up im putting together. I have decided on Polk RTi8 speakers with a CSi5 center and some FXi3's in the back. It is a smaller room, so these should provide more than plenty quality, warm sound. Obvsiously this is going to be a 5.1 set-up. Deciding on speakers was hard enough, now I need to choose a receiver.

I was impressed with all the good things people, including Gerry, had to say about the Denon 3805. Then I saw the price. EEK! anyway, if I was gonig to do a 7.1 system, I might see the use of something like that, but if i could save some money since I wont be using many of the features that nice of a receiver has. (Unless Gerry wants to sell me his 05 since he has a 06 now) Anyway, if thats what I need for these speakers to sound great, thats fine, if there is something that is just as good with less ( i know that sounds wrong, but i am talking 7.1 features i wont be using) then any suggestions would be great. Thanks guys

 

Howdy guy...you rang? (Ah, you're probably too young for that). Actually, I still have a 3805 not a 3806; I put myself in the poorhouse with my current system so it had better out live me LOL!

You don't need a 3805 to make your speakers sound great...(nice speakers, by the way); I'm a music teacher and I bought that receiver and my mirages for a very specific reason which isn't important here. Will you be adding a sub to that arrangement? Before I continue writing, I'm going to send you a PM about something as soon as I get a moment here at the office. Check your private messages....Gerry

I just noticed your other thread about Bose and asking for suggestions. My apologies for not jumping in sooner; I'm in the middle of moving and all sorts of different things so I guess I haven't been paying attention. Have you bought those Polks yet? You certainly can't go wrong with them from what I've read. You can't go wrong period with the towers because you're AVR will give you setting options. I guess what I'm getting at is this; if you're looking to conserve space (you said the room was small) they make really astounding small speakers now (but you need a sub with them.) ...this was not the case all that long ago but companies like Mirage and scores of others make speakers no larger than a grapefruit which combined with the use of the sub (bass is non directional so you can't tell it's not coming from the speaker, if you can, your settings are wrong). MOst of your AVRs will allow you to set your speakers to large or small...that will determine where the AVR will clip the frequencies and send the lower frequencies to the sub. If you do not have a sub, you need to be sure to go to the speaker selection menu of the AVR and select "none" (i.e., if your AVR has this option but most newer ones do). If you have large fronts (like the polk towers) you set the AVR front speaker selection to "large" and it will clip just the very lowest frequencies and route them to the sub for seperate amplification. If you get small fronts then you set the AVR to "small" fronts then it clips the frequencies a bit differently so that it routes more of the lower frequency signals like including the lower quater of the mid range to the sub. The result of this is tiny speakers like Mirage nanostats to bookshelf speakers producing sound every bit as awesome as these monster sized speakers by redirecting bass which is non-directional in the first place. With video, one is as good as the next but if you listen to music a lot, you'll find most guys still prefer larger speakers to limit the use of the sub and keep most of the sound localized.

So too, if you read further in the receiver and amplifier section, you'll find a lot of guys, including me, who will often set their large fronts to "small" when watching videos...limiting the amount of sound from the fronts by sending lower frequencies to the sub can heighten the sound effects by redirecting the mass of sound in which they occur. When we go back to music, we switch them back to large. So, if you've bought your speakers already its a moot point and they're good speakers, but if you haven't, don't get caught up in the old frame of thinking that the bigger the speaker, the better the sound; use to be true but isn't anymore....Gerry

 

HI dukhnt! If you have the bucks to buy a receiver now, this is the best time of year to do so but not for much longer. New models come out in March and April so the previous year's stock is often on sale at cosiderable savings. Believe it or not, this is particularly true in the very hight end, very expensive a/v shops like Tweeters...this is the only time of year I'll shop there LOL! In Philly, there is a Tweeters right smack in the financial district and the must sell last years stock at cost. In such stores which are frequented by lawers, bankers, doctors and stock people, NOBODY goes in there to buy last years stuff; that clientel wants the newest bells and whistles so they just short of give the old stock away...I've seen savings as much as 50-75%...I'm not kidding. So if you've got the bucks to spend now, then this is the ideal time of year...probably a bit passed it but what remains will be slashed even more...this is true of everything...TVs, AVRs, DVD players....everything..

The same applies to web sites; they're getting rid of old stock at a song to accomodate the new. I was just looking at the Crutchfield catalog and they had some awesome deals. But, dukhnt, you need to be EXTREMELY careful with websites because they aren't authorized by the manufacturer so the manufacturer/factory warranty and guarantees and void; you're often stuck with the "store" guarantee which is often 60-90 days and limited rather than the year or whatever offered by the manufacturer so people often get burnt. This happens because the manufacturers consider these to be "distributers" and not "retailers". Web sites like Crutchfield, J&R computers/electronics will always have in big letters at the bottom of their home page that they're manufacturer authorized dealers. Look for that whenever you buy such things off the internet. On this subject...avoid ebay at all cost... You can read dozens of horror stories right here in the receiver/amplifier forum.

"Receiver recommendations" is actually a taller order than it sounds because of the subjectivity involved...the same is true of speakers. Naturally, some receivers are better than others ... its a fair bet that my denon or someone's yammie is better than the blue light special for fifty dollars but when you start getting into really good equipment, a lot of it becomes a matter or personal taste and personal preference. Your speakers are Polks while mine are Mirages...both great stuff yet they sound a lot different...both clear and high quality, just different. Polks are known to have a "bright" sound ...for me, they're too bright...not a criticism but just personal preference. Receivers are much the same.

What I would do in your shoes is to go somewhere armed with both your favorite DVD (something with good effects) and your favorite CD.
Go to a place like tweeter that has a sound room...no two rooms are alike but the problem with department stores and such is that the sound gets lost in this massive room while a good audio store you'll have a better idea of what the receiver sounds like even though your living room probably doesn't afford the same listening conditions. You already have your Polks so have them sample receiver after receiver through your polks to see which best suit your ears. Remember that a lot of bells and whistles DOESN'T at all mean a better unit ... lots and lots of features on a crappy receiver will still sound like crap. Go for what sounds best to you through the speakers you've already bought. If they're unwilling to play your favorite CD and DVD, tell them to get stuffed and go somewhere else. They always put on the systems whatever will best sell it. If a rear projection TV has bad blacks then you can bet their demo will have a nice bright and sunny day playing on the screen. Choose whatever best suits your ears but don't buy yet...write the model numbers down an go home and read independent, unbiased reviews. That's the best way to buy ... I'll help you do the research and reviews if you like. THe first consideration is what YOU think sounds best, does the best job whith the sound effects on DVDs or with the sorts of music that you like...then do the homework to check on the quality of what your buying. I guess that's all I can offer on the subject. Keep us posted on how you make out and again, I'm pretty good at the research end if you want some help with that....Gerry

P.S. What is the make and model of your TV dukhnt? Depending on your TVs features, there could perhaps be things you want to take into account when you buy your receiver.

 

Thanks again Gerry. Ill do some listening and reading on my next days off. The tv is a Sony KDF-E60A20 60" LCD. I'll talk to you in a few days. Oh, also, you mentioned e-bay. I have read a lot of good replies from customers on audio and video forums about a place called audiosound or something like that out of las vegas. They have some items listed on e-bay for very good prices. Still no e-bay? they also list that they are a licensed retailer of Denon, Polk, etc etc. Thanks!

 

If their a legit retailer and not a private seller and the manufacturer warranties are intact, hell, I don't see why not! Will look up your TV.

 

Are you talking about Audiogon? http://www.audiogon.com/

 

I was a little bit off on the name. The e-bay name they use and the www. name they use are the same, which is Acousticsounddesign.com They are out of Vegas, NV.

 

@JVC....how are you buddy?

@dukhnt...I looked at the web site you provided, acousticsounddesign.com...while they have impressive deals, be careful...they do have the BBB's aurthorization which is a good thing yet if you click on their link "return policy" they say that manufacturers simply won't honor their warranties on internet sales sites and give some reason but this simply is not true. If you buy from them, do some homework on THEIR warranty. What if something happens and your receiver bites the dust seven months down the road? It's not an uncommon occurance dukhnt, call them and find out what their answer is....Gerry

 

[bold]gerry1[/bold].........
Ok here buddy. Killing time on a saturday afternoon! )
Glad you made it back from your trip ok. Hope you don't have to make another trip, for those reasons, anytime soon.

I agree he should be [bold]very[/bold] careful. Most brands won't warranty their stuff that's bought from online sellers, because they're not [bold]factory authorized[/bold] sellers. Even so, some sellers will give you some warranty. Just usually not as much as the factory warranty.
Talk to you later.

 

@JVC and dukhnt...JVC, perhaps you would know where dukhnt can sample JVC rec receivers. I just read some great reviews about one of their AVRs: lots of features for the price and high praise for the sound. Suggested retail price is $899 but say them for $525. Here's a link to some details; wanted to find something more comprehensive but I'm ready for bed and way too tired! Click on specifications.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...=JVRXD702B&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku=374235

Trip home was rather sad as it can only be I suppose. I guess the only saving grace is that I get to see all the relatives. Living away from New England, I don't get to see friends and relatives as much as I would like.

 

I don't know of any chain stores to go in and listen to JVC. I'd say check your phone book. If they don't advertise JVC in their yellow page ad, call and ask if they sell them. I know the Best Buy and Circuit City stores, that are nearest me, don't sell them. If you live in a big city, it shouldn't be hard to find some.

The site that gerry1 linked to, had a pretty good deal. They were cheaper than Crutchfield, with the same warranty info. I think Crutchfield is an authorized seller. Don't know about B&H (link). You can always send JVC an email, asking if the warranty is good, if you buy from B&H............

If I had the money, I'd definately buy one of JVC's new digital receivers. I've been using JVC for many years, and am very happy with them. I also want one of the new generation 56" JVC HD-ILA televisions. I want one real bad! )

 

Hey dukhnt! How are you buddy? I'm just curious to know how you're making out with the AVR hunt! I'm really envious of your TV!! I have the KDF-42WE655 LCD rear projection and while I really love the thing, I could kick myself for not getting one larger....but i do love it though; I must have checked out every damned TV made and in my opinion, it had the best picture by far with the sole exceptions of SOME of the regular LCDs. One thing that did tich me off though, and which I didn't notice until a couple of months later, is that it doesn't have any kind of "video out". Like mine, your's has only one HDMI input; I wonder why they do that? Most of the new AVRs have HDMI now but my Denon missed it by one year. Anyway, keep JVC and I posted. Happy hunting! ... Gerry

You know, one of my favorite review sites is audioholics and they have a section of recommendations for putting systems together within a certain price range...you might want to look at the AVRs they recommended. The link is below ... they've got a lot of good reviews:

http://www.audioholics.com/showcase/systemguide/index.php

 

I think I will buy the speakers as followes: (1) center Polk CSi5, (2) front Polk RTi8's, (2) surrounds FXi5's, and one sub Polk PSW-404. Fire season has started to kick in. I will be able to buy a few speakers with each check. When I have the speakers purchased, I will buy a receiver. For now, I have decided on a Denon 3805. It will be around 4 or 5 months before I can afford the receiver, I will keep in touch, if something better comes up for around the same money, I am sure you guys will hear about it. Now....shall we discus cables?? lol. talk to you guys later

 

Uh oh..........
You'll open a [bold]BIG[/bold] can of worms, talking about cables!
Just don't buy Monster cables. They cost ten times more than they are worth. I bought Radio Shack cables, and they sound great. If you want to do better than RS cables, there are AR (Acoustic Research), sold at Best Buy and Circuit City. I've heard a lot of folks rave about Bluejean Cables. I think they are only available online.

There's just no need to spend more on cables, than what you spent on your receiver, which is easy to do with Monster..........
BTW.......the Denon 3805 is a great choice. But let me warn you. The remote is a nightmare to learn! If I were you, I'd buy a Harmony remote to run everything you have. It's amazing what you can do with the push of one button.

 

@dukhnt: Well, I can't think of a better AVR...not that I'm prejudiced or anything LOL! Actually, if you go that route, you'll have to go with the 3806 which has just replaced the 3805 but that is just as well because the 3806 will have an HDMI Out which will connect to your TV. Will keep you posted if I see good deals on similar AVRs.

And JVC is certainly right with his "UH..OH" and the can or worms over cables; I suspect JVC and I think on similar terms regarding cables but there is something I can say from experience: I had better quality radio shack cables with 16g speaker wire. I went through this huge project changing everything to these super monster cables and 12g speaker wire....and you know what I noticed....NOT A DAMNED THING!! I'll spare you the story of how I got all the monster cables but I'll tell ya', had I spent the kind of money those cables would have otherwise cost, I would have been seriously ticked off!! I couldn't even hear a slight difference let alone the huge difference I've heard so many claim...and as a classical musician, I've got pretty good ears (the truth is that I'm french and have pretty big ears ... I'll save the nose for another occasion LOL)

The remote for the 3805 is O.K. once you get the hang of it but that takes a while! Hopefully, they've changed it for the 3806. First, you need to use good batteries or they'll drain pretty quickly. The remote doesn't have buttons but rather this back lit pad with multiple changing menus...the good thing is they can put more features to control on the menu, the bad thing is that it does get confusing until your use to it. I have yet another problem which compounds the difficulty with the remote ... I can't see a freggin thing up close without my glasses. With buttons, it's only a pain until you've learnt to feel your way around but once you know where everything is, its easy to push the right button by feeling your way around. You can't do that with this remote so I've got to run around and find reading glasses...something of a pain! I'm getting better at keeping a spare at my chair though. JVC, one of these days, I want to speak with you more about such remotes; you seem to have experience with them and I do want to change mine one of these days.
I hope you are all well! ... Gerry

 

Gerry / JVC...

Another question: If i supplied you with the room dementions i am planning on putting these speakers in...would it be possible to tell me if the Polk FXi3's or the FXi5's would be best for the situation?

Thanks in advance.

p.s. I have looked all over town and although i have found several other higher end of speakers.....no Polk

 

The only Polks I'm familiar with are the LSi9's. A friend has a pair of those and a polk center channel speaker. They are outstanding speakers. They are bookshelf speakers, and will work in almost any size room, except maybe a stadium, and they'd probably do good there too. He got his from http://www.crutchfield.com

 

@dukhnt...Lord, there are so many considerations in all of this. Let me make one generalization (though I do so with some trepidation; someone may come back and yell at me LOL): you can put large speakers in a small room but you CAN'T put small speakers in a large room...I say this because you're looking at rather sophisticated receivers which will actually take room size and acoustics into consideration...they come with microphones which will test the room and make all the necessary adjustments for the size and acoustics of the spacee; they do so rather well at that...when done, you need only "tweak" if you like more bass, treble..less of it and so on. My speakers are these massive mirage towers which are "active" fronts. I bought them for a much larger room but my present living room is only 18X18 but the Denon compensated very well and they still sound great even in a much smaller space but the down side is that they take up a lot of space and that is also a consideration for you as well it seems. There are plenty of good AVRs without all the bells and whistles though that won't make adjustments for room size then I'd go with smaller speakers or you'll have such a massive wall of sound that it will sound like one big powerful monoral system.

As I said somewhere before, things have changed a great deal in speakers; bigger isn't necessarily better anymore. I will use my brand of speakers as an example because they're what I'm use to: I heard their tiny sattlelites and I was astonished at the sound, take a peek at them:

http://miragespeakers.com/omnistat.shtml#
http://miragespeakers.com/omnistat_mic.shtml#
http://miragespeakers.com/nano.shtml#


Now these massive beasts are the mirages I have:

http://miragespeakers.com/om5.shtml#

When I heard those little omnistats which are just about the size of a grapefruit, my chin must have dropped to my knees! Damn, what a sound! When it came to DVDs, the effects and even the music, they sounded every bit as good as my monstrosities. They do it by relying heavily on the sub (so you really need a decent one). They not only send the lowest frequencies to the sub but also like the bottom third of the mid-range.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: if you primary purpose is video, sound effects etc., frankly, I'd go small and get a good sub. They're just as good. Your receiver is going to have a "speaker selection" menu; you simply set the fronts to "small". They really do sound every bit as good as mine which are suppose to be mirage's "flagship" speakers.

If you listen to a lot of music though, there is a second consideration. I not only listen to a lot of music but I'm a music teacher so when I listen to music, I'm not only listening but mentally, I'm breaking down every note. Unlike others, I can't read or work or anything when listening to music because all my attention goes to mentally breaking down what I'm hearing so I listen to music in a different way then most. The problem I encountered with the little speakers is the very techonology which makes them sound good...they route like the bottom third of the midrange to the sub so let's say I'm listening this classical piece...the cello is playing beautifully but as his notes get lower, they're suddenly coming from a different place...like he or she just got up and moved. My guess is, no one but an egghead like me would ever even notice this but because I listen to music differently, it drives me nuts. Would other people notice this? ...I don't know.

So if your primary use is for movies and effects, I'd go small if you want to save space. If for both video and music it depends on how critical a listener you are; it will still sound great with music but there will be little odds things that are out of place. Also, here is a crutchfield article about room size, speaker size and so on:

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/home/ht_speakers.html

I'm rather surprised that you didn't find the Polks, they are one of the most popular makes. The polks you were planning to buy are fine in a smaller room because you're looking at receivers which will control their output...but have you heard these polks you were talking about yet or were they a recommendation from someone? To me, choosing speakers is probably the most difficult part of the process. It so very subjective and has so much to do with personal taste.

 

@dukhnt & JVC...thought I'd post a link to some of the best speakers I've ever heard. They're odd looking things but awesome! ...and VERY $$$$$$$ LOL. Click on "current products"

http://www.ohmacoustics.com/1/Ohm-Acoustics.html

 

Nice looking speakers. I've never heard of them before. Is this what's in your house, gerry? )

Here are my favorites.....http://www.allisonacoustics.com
I have the older AL-115's for my fronts. They are about 12-13 yrs. old now. When I got them, they cost me $400 pr.

The new version of mine (same speaker according to Allison), is the PB 8.2's. I read somewhere that they cost over $1300 pr. now. Those floor standing Allison One's cost over $5300 pr. I wish I could get a whole set of Allisons. But I sure can't afford those babies now! Mine still sound fabulous.

If you have a dealer near you, you should go listen. I don't have one near me anymore. One day I hope to hear some new ones........ )