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Help with aspect ratio using TMPGEnc

Discussion in 'MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 encoding (AVI to DVD)' started by AdRock925, Jul 19, 2006.

  1. AdRock925

    AdRock925 Regular member

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    I'm trying to convert a mkv file to m2v (mpeg-2) with TMPGEnc, the problem I seem to be having is preserving the aspect ratio of the original mkv. The original video properties of the mkv according to Winows Media Player, FILE> PROPERTIES) are:
    Type: Video
    Size: 720 x 408 (not 480)

    I'm converting to NTSC with these setting:
    video size: 720 x 480
    Aspect Ratio: 4:3
    Source Aspect Ratio: 1:1 (vga)
    Video Arrange Method: Full Screan (keep aspect ratio)

    I've tried several different settings but what isn't just making sense is that the original video size is 720 x 408 (an odd aspect ratio), even when I render @ 720 x 480 NTSC the video gets stretched along the WIDTH, I would expect that it SHOULD get stretched along the heighth, is this because my source aspect ratio is set to 1:1? please help.
     
  2. Headborg

    Headborg Regular member

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    Ok, I'm not 100% sure about this, but:

    720x408 is formated for PC screen not standard NTSC TV screen
    it's using Square Pixels instead of Rectangle

    Also, 1:1 aspect again is a "for Pc" aspect ratio too. Square Pixels.

    The full screen (keep aspect ratio) isn't going to be possible..because you want to encode it to DVD NTSC complient standard which is 720x480 rectangle pixel 525/60 hz...the encoder must stretch the vertical to 480 ( as you antisapated(excuse spelling please:sure could use spell check) but you are also asking it to "preserve aspect ratio 1:1 after converting, to do this it has to add 72 pixels to the width. So yes to your question..it's using the setting for SAR(source aspect ratio)/PAR and trying to keep it 1:1 Also, I'm wondering...the setting for "arrange" is found under the Clipping section? are you clipping/masking your video...If you "uncheck" the clipping option it should encode as wanted , but if you ARE clipping you should select one of the other settings.

    Please use GSPOT and confirm the origional framesize..and the final aspect ratio and don't opt for "keeping aspect ratio"
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2006
  3. AdRock925

    AdRock925 Regular member

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    Thnx for the response headborg. Well what I did was go back to the basics, I figued out that a 720 x 408 res. is nearest to 16:9 aspect Ratio (725 x 408 or 720 x 405). So I set the SAR to 16:9 and the ouput video size to 720 x 416 then changed Video Arrange Method to: Center (keep aspect ratio), I'm not sure by how much exactly this distorted the video, or more importantly the picture within the video (working with a widesrean movie with bars by the way) the movie itself looks good, if there is any distorion it's pretty much undetectable to the eye, but I'm left with a video size that is 720 x 416, will that cause problems when encoding to dvd? All my other output settings were configured for 4:3 ntsc. I'm confused as to why TMPGEnc allows free selection of video size even when a aspect ratio is specified, shouldn't it constrain proportions? isn't that what "keep aspect ratio" is all about?

    I am not trying to clip or mask the video, "Video Arrange Method" is found on the "Advanced" tab of "Mpeg Setting" window in TMPGEnc plus 2.5

    I just downloaded g-spot opened the file (.MKV) how do I check video size? all feilds within g-spot are grayed-out/inactive except for FILE and CONTAINER
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2006
  4. Headborg

    Headborg Regular member

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    Yea, I was wondering about that myself, thinking it was actually 16:9 widescreen that had some letterboxing done to it..But you said it was 4:3, and I didn't want to argue that point. The Arrange Video method is found in both places Advanced and under clipping:

    Basically, when you start playing with the settings "manually" you can reck havec with the encoding..you should select properties for the Source Video that match what the Source is...then select the output to be what you want...Example you said you selected 16:9 for SAR that's great...if your video is in fact 16:9. But to "keep aspect ratios...you're need to select NTSC 16:9 for your output, you can't change it to a 4:3 fullscreen without changing the aspect ratio

    If the source SAR/PAR is 1:1 it's square pixels(vga). SAR and Par use pixels and the DAR is WxH and you need to change that to 720x480 or a lesser by a factor of 16...try selecting center(custom ratio) and imput the desired WxH. If you use DVD_LaB Pro to do the Authoring and you don't have a 720x480 you will see warning flags pop-up, and you will have to select "accept Non-DVD sizes" under the advanced tab in Project Properties...and you will get the "ok, but we can't guarentee it will play in all DVD players" disclaimer.

    The G-Spot works like many other programs click on File...import your video then you can read the properties.

     
  5. AdRock925

    AdRock925 Regular member

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    What I've decided to do, is just burn the m2v file I created in tmpgedit to a dvd-rw and view it on my PC just to asess(?) how much and in what way the video is distorted, (I am anticipating the video will be scrunched to accomodate for the 16:9sar 4:3output ar like you said). Unfortunately, When I first opened tmpgenc for the first time I sort of went crazy with the settings and in the process enabled the "set current project to default" which doesn't seem to be easily reversable at this point, at worst I'll just have to reinstall TMPGEnc to regain default settings so I can start fresh.

    The problem here is that I have no way of knowing what the true aspect ratio of the file is, g-spot doesn't tell me, and all WMP says is 720 x 408, if I could find out what aspect ratio and pixel dimension the video is using this would be much easier.
    [​IMG]

    In the meantime I've also been dealing with subtitle and audio issues, I'm a brand-noob at DVD authoring so I'm pretty much in DVD HELL right now tryng to learn it all at once. Thanx again for the info and keep it commin' I will keep updating this thread as I(hopefully) make progress.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2006
  6. Headborg

    Headborg Regular member

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    Ok,,sorry about that...my bag...I didn't know at the time that.. Guess What GSPOT doesn't support .mkv...sorry.

    Did some asking around...and everyone said YOU'RE SCRE_ED!....Just Kidding. Why in the world did you get messed up with a .mkv on your first date into DVD land. THEY're advice is to try to convert that container to a .VOB since it already contains sub-titles etc. So maybe that should be what You should be looking at First..Some way to convert it direct to a .VOB?
     
  7. Headborg

    Headborg Regular member

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    Ok,,sorry about that...my bag...I didn't know at the time that.. Guess What GSPOT doesn't support .mkv...sorry.

    Did some asking around...and everyone said YOU'RE SCRE_ED!....Just Kidding. Why in the world did you get messed up with a .mkv on your first date into DVD land. THEY're advice is to try to convert that container to a .VOB since it already contains sub-titles etc. So maybe that should be what You should be looking at First..Some way to convert it direct to a .VOB?

    TOOL OPTIONS:
    VirtualDuB MoD
    ConvertXtoDVD

    I have VDM, never used and don't have ConvertXtoDVD

    So anytime anyone else wants to jump IN!

    P.S. friends say if that .mkv has multi-audio tracks...you'll going to have a real fun time getting them to sync. I've never "played" with a .mkv so I'm going to see if I can find one to download just for "sh_ts and giggles"

    what was that title? GhostNthe?2
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2006
  8. AdRock925

    AdRock925 Regular member

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    Thats exactly what I'm doing, First you have to demux the mkv files (with vdubmod) and create mpeg2 (mkv) ac3, srt, etc. then create your vob. I almost have it, it's pretty much just getting the aspect ratio to within an acceptable range which is why I have resorted to trial and error.

    "Why in the world did you get messed up with a .mkv on your first date into DVD land."

    A MKV with two audio tracks and subtitles none the less, the most effective way to learn is the hard way, get in over your head and claw your way out.

    "friends say if that .mkv has multi-audio tracks...you'll going to have a real fun time getting them to sync."

    I'm anticipating this as well.

     
  9. AdRock925

    AdRock925 Regular member

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    ghost in the shell 2
     
  10. Headborg

    Headborg Regular member

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    Ok, I found 2 of that title aval for DL at PirateBay: Here are the specs...anything look familiar?
    VIDEO]
    Codec: XviD 1.02 Final
    Resolution: 712x384 (1.85:1)
    Frame Rate:: 23.976 fps
    Bitrate: ~1701 kb/s

    [AUDIO]
    Track 1 (japanese):
    Codec: AC3 Dolby Laboratories, Inc
    Bitrate: 448 kb/s (5.1 ch) CBR
    Frequency Sample: 48000 Hz
    Track 2 (english):
    Codec: MPEG-1 Layer 3 (MP3)
    Bitrate: ~210 kb/s (Surround 2) VBR
    Frequency Sample: 48000 Hz
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------[OTHERS]
    Time playing: 01:22:49
    Source: DVD R1 (video and english language) and DVD R2 (japanese language)
    Container: Matroska
    Subtitles (softsubs inside mkv): English (rip from dvd) and Polish (fansub by Freeman [thnx])
    Chapters (two languages - english and polish)
    Size: ~1.4GB

    Number 2;
    [VIDEO]
    Codec: XviD 1.02 Final
    Resolution: 640x346 (1.85:1)
    Frame Rate: 23.976 fps
    Bitrate: 1219 kb/s

    [AUDIO]
    Codec: DTS Dolby Laboratories, Inc
    Bitrate: 768 kb/s (5.1 ch)
    Frequency Sample: 48000 Hz

    [OTHERS]
    Time playing: 01:39:06
    Source: DVD9 R2
    Container: Matroska
    Subtitles (softsubs inside mkv): English (Meiko and Nebu) and Polish (Freeman)
    Chapters (two languages - english and polish)
    Size: ~1.4GB
     
  11. AdRock925

    AdRock925 Regular member

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    Here's a link to the torrent I downloadesd, it's actually the first one listed (ghost in the shell 2 dual audio.mkv)The file I have doesn't have polish subs or any chapters.

    http://torrentspy.com/search.asp?h=&query=ghost+in+the+shell+2+innocence&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

    I have submitted to the mighty matroska for the time being, after subpicture problems using srt2sup that dwarf these AR problems and audio complications looming, this could take months. If I'm going to somehow convert this mkv to DVD I want to keep The subtitle and Language/Audio options intact while preserving the high quality of the video and audio. The torrent file I linked to has a flawed english audio stream so I was going to attempt to sync another audio stream that I ripped from a different version. Usually I just buy anime on DVD for these reasons, mkv is the first format that is even worth downloading as far as anime goes. The region 1 version of this dvd S_CKS A_S and has none of these options and horrible subtitles, so I'm opting for buying the region 2 dvd and converting to ntsc.

    If your up to the challenge, by all means, be my guest I would be very interested in finding a way to achieve this because Matroska is getting more and more popular by the minute. I'm just to green to dvd authoring at this point to do it without loosing my mind, and programers have just started toying with mkv. Here are some other links to rersources I was using to help me along, I'm sure you can piece together my plan of action.

    http://www.photosyndikat.de/guides/2COOL/2COOL_MultiAudio_Subs.html

    http://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/169251.php

    http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=129419&highlight=
    here's something more simple, how to you dmux the mkv audio streams into ac3, or are those streams even ac3 at all?

     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2006
  12. Headborg

    Headborg Regular member

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    Well, answer I don't know...the whole .mkv thing has me "hooked" now, as for making a DVD that end is not really a big problem. I've just never dealt with this type of 'container' or format. Once, we/I can 'see' what I'm dealing with and can extract the material and get it in a format I understand...then the rest should go smooth.

    Is the audio AC3(Dolby) I won't know until I get it downloaded...ETA 5-9 weeks. I downloaded the CCCP codec pack to install the needed/recommened Splitter. Don't want to install VLC at this time.

    Might look at using MKVextractor GUI, look into BeHappy, BePipe.

    The MkV container resembles a .vob container without any 'formal' protocols restricting one from Sticking 3dogs, a cat and whatever else inside Then lacing all this together..like chicken pot pie.

    Extracting all the pieces out looks interesting. Could call it the "Forest Gump" container..Mommy always said MKV is like a box of Chocolate...You never know what you're going to Get!"

    Right Now, my plan of attack is alittle different:
    I want to start by trying to get the Video into .avi format
    Then I can use CCE SP with AviSynth..CCE has an advanced setting for Animation which might be handy and the AVISynth should handle the Lame AAC AC3 audio.(so we/ I can keep that)

    I'm still downloading that other copy if the File too( the one with the above specs) as you say the English Audio is Cr_P. Now there's a challenge..to ReMux a audio file from a different video and sync it up to this video. I'll probably use Adobe premiere pro for that..you really need to be able to 'see' the sync.
     
  13. Headborg

    Headborg Regular member

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    Ok, Question:
    You've already used VirtualDubMod...you opened the .mkv, selected *direct stream copy* chosen the audio stream( you can only select one).....and dubbed that to an .avi / and saved it as an .avi? So, why won't GSPOT open that .avi and let you see what you have?
     
  14. AdRock925

    AdRock925 Regular member

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    5-9 weeks! what are you using to download? If your using bit torrent you must not have your ports open. (I use azureus foe a client which uses ports 6881-6889) If tour using emule or edonky I would sugest opening those ports too, I forget off-hand what ports emule uses. You should be able to download a couple gigs overnight, Use peerguardian2 if your concerned about snoopers or bugs.

    I thought of converting the mkv to avi also but wasn't sure how it would effect the quality, that should be simple with vdubmod. I deleted that file but i'll download it again and give it another crack.

    keep in mind I would like to find a way to preserve selectable audio streams and subtitles as well.
     
  15. AdRock925

    AdRock925 Regular member

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    hmmm...that's a good question, I'm having trouble remembering at this point. either there was some reason I couldn't do that or maybe I overlooked something. I may have been under the assumption as I am now that an avi would compress the file too much.
     
  16. Headborg

    Headborg Regular member

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    Well, now the ETA is down to 2 weeks (only 18 seeders aval) And I have 50 downloads in progress/ seeding 25 files ..and this is just Torrent files...I use a random port, with a dynamic IP, PeerGuradian isn't all-that. I also need bandwith for other filesharing applications not to mention web-browsing and IM.

    as for Muxing, You can only mux one audio stream with the mpeg-2, avi, The other "optional" audio tracks you can Use VirtualDubMod again on the same .mkv and save the audio streams seperately as .m2a steams.
     
  17. AdRock925

    AdRock925 Regular member

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    I just demuxed both audio streams from the mkv, vdubmod would only allow me to save tham as wav though.
     
  18. Headborg

    Headborg Regular member

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    hmmm, Here's a beautiful 2 page guide on how to extract AC3 using VDM, as noted in the guide..if the stream isn't really AC3 to start with..then it just gets saved with the false extention .ac3.

    http://www.digital-digest.com/articles/extract_ac3_audio_page1.html

    I'm still shooting in the dark here, as the file hasn't finished downloading.
    I'm thinking, we might need to use MKVextractor to extract the AC3 stream from the 'chicken pot pie'.

    The ideal behind using VDM and "Muxing" at least ONE audio stream with it..either PCM or WAV is so we stand a good chance of having at least 1 audio stream that's in sync with the video.."call it the 'control' in this science experiment. You can always go back and extract/copy seperate video or audio streams in additon..Don't you love "non-destructive" editing.

    Which DVD authoring progam are you going to use? Since you want to keep subs, multi audio, "the works" I'd suggest DVD_LaB+-Pro, or Encore(which I'm still starting to learn My way around)?
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2006
  19. AdRock925

    AdRock925 Regular member

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    Thanx for that link, I was wondering why I couldn't get VDM to export ac3. But like you mentioned its always nice to have wav form, if my audio didn't sync I was planning on maybe finding a solution in adobe After effects, premiere, or Ulead Media Studio. I have much more experience with NLE than DVD authoring and those programs let you render audio/video at different frame rates/2:3 pulldown etc.

    This is the first time I'm hearing of MKVextractor, sounds like an essential tool. (amazing how you can type in every possible combination of related words you can think of into a search engine and still not get what your looking for sometimes)

    DVDLabPro seems to be the most popular choice out there, like the rest of these Muxing/authoring progs I haven't had any previous experiencing with it so I'm trusting the info out there that it's capable of getting the job done.

    Do you have any experience with subtitles?

    I'm re-downloading the file as well, got about 7 hours left though.
     
  20. Headborg

    Headborg Regular member

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    1day 10hrs left on that file, 1week 4days on the one from PB with the Polish, Japaneese, +5.1 surround etc.

    No experience with SoftSubs (only hardsubs) and putting them in a DVD...so this will be a learning lesson too...might come in handy, was thinking about finding Europa, Europa and burning it....Maybe Tora, Tora too! Can't really think of many movies that I would need or want with Subtitles. Am not a big Manga, Anima fan or Transexual Porn fan either. The foreign language can hit the cutting floor too. But, if in the interest of "learning" I will give it a shot and leave them in.

    The matroska webpage has a excellent Guide to converting Mkv to DVD, Using DVD Santa. It's excellent reading...shows the use of the MKVtool kit(which includes the MKVmerge and extractor GUI's) You can find the toolkit available there to download, only I couldn't get the MKVextractor GUI to download. I think my plan of attack will start with using the above tool kit to demux the .mkv. Might have to use VDM to convert the Video to .avi/ Basically, I'm following that guide except Not Using DVD_Santa, instead working toward formating everything toward DVD_Lab_Pro. Which requires .mpeg-2 and since I prefer to use CCE encoder over TMPGenc the "conversion train" has to make a brief stop in .avi country to get there.
     

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