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Image Creating and Burning

Discussion in 'Audio' started by labtec99, Sep 7, 2010.

  1. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    I would think so. I was too fixed on Nero to see past that. It would be a good guess your new burner is not very good.
     
  2. labtec99

    labtec99 Member

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    I have performed the test you mentioned by using dBpoweramp to convert to flac, then use Burrrn to burn an Audio CD, I haven't had time to listen to it in full as it's an hour long compilation, but I will give it a complete listen on Friday, and I will let you know.

    Regarding the burner, if it hadn't been for the failed speed tests I may well have just performed ripped burns from CD like mentioned here, but I think I will take the burner back tomorrow and see if they will exchange it for me.

    Performing the burn like this takes longer, but if I am guaranteed an error free burn then it's worth it.

    Thankfully my copy of dBpoweramp is unlimited, and if it does error free burns then I would use it more often rather than mediamonkey, although I do use MediaMonkey for mp3 files.

    Regarding the speeds on my writer, I tried going for the 8 speed on the Burrrn program, but it still copied it at x16, so I think the burners lowest possible speed is x16.

    When we think about it, I suppose Nero does the same thing when it's asked to copy a disc, it's just that we don't see it working internally, I mean in relation to converting.

    By the way, did you know that when burning flac files using Burrrn that it needs to decode the Flac files first to Wave before it starts to burn, and it's the Wave files that it,s burning, so in essence the music is being converted twice prior to being burned, some may say the more music is converted the more chance of sound quality loss, although I would very much need to see proof on that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  3. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    You will not be able to hear any problems. I will guarantee that. You can even burn from HiFi mp3s and not hear any difference. The human ear is not very good. If you want a chuckle read the audio myths in the top sticky of this forum.

    You can rip to wave files if you intend to delete them right after. You are correct in that the flacs will be converted but so will the waves. CDs have their own lossless format. By not using an earlier format the later technology did not have to pay royalties. I am sure making their own was much cheaper. Lossless to a different lossless format is always perfect. It is when you convert lossy information to any other format that things start to blur. It really takes many conversions with HiFi lossy but LoFi lossy goes down hill rapidly.

    Reading from magnetic media is fast and reliable. It is reading from an optical disk that is a problem. The disks are pressed in such a way it makes them hard to read. You can check the damaged disk sticky for that info. So if you are ripping with dbpoweramp it will either be perfect or it will let you know that it was not. Since you got no errors it is perfect. Because the music was never compressed you should not have any artifacts. I have never seen a complaint about dbpoweramp introducing any artifact on its own. That is not true of all high quality converters. When they are working right there are no artifacts.
     
  4. labtec99

    labtec99 Member

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    Yeah, but it's not so much the ripping but the actual writing to the CD-R that I believe to be the problem as in this case.

    The original image that I created a couple of days ago, when I burnt the CD for it I assumed it was error free as I hadn't played it in full, and I then deleted the image, but if I had known there was a sound error glitch I would have burned the same image to a new CD-R media, and if that was error free then it would prove without doubt that the problem is the writer only
     
  5. labtec99

    labtec99 Member

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    Please don't forget though that I only have version 10 of dBPowerAMP, therefore no matter how much I attempt to activate the accurate rip function it just will not activate, so do you think that will be a problem for me?

    I wish someone could send me a copy of the up to date version dBpoweramp Music Converter R13.5, as it covers most systems including mine which is windows 98.

    http://www.dbpoweramp.com/cd-ripper.htm
     
  6. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    Could it still be in your trash can?

    What were your steps? Rip, make an image with burrrn then burn it? Or was this the old disk? I can tell you with videos I get a 25-30% coaster rate with Nero but using imgburn with the same image less than 5% coaster rate on the same image Nero choked on. Nero creates 5-6 time the coaster. Nero did not make the image. I really hate that app. It does do laser scribe labels. I do like that feature. Some times I screw up and burn with Nero then I have to cross my fingers will it die?
     
  7. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    No I do not think that will help at all. dbPA is subscription based. It doesn't die on your side it dies on the website when you request services. It is quite clever how they do it. However accurip is not a paid for subscription right now. I suspect you can't get the 30 day version since you already have it installed.

    Also your CD must be in the accurip database for it to work. I may say "not in the accurip database". It will add yours check sums to its database. I don't know how many matching sessions it needs before it will not give the error message.
     
  8. k00ka

    k00ka Regular member

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    labtec99 wrote,
    Yes they are decoded/decompressed, but they are NOT being converted...There will be NO further quality loss...If you un-zip a word doc, is it not decompressed to it's original bit for bit format?..Same thing with flac, that's why it's well--lossless
    All burning apps decode to wav first and then burn..Burrrn does it on-the-fly..

    As for your burning issue(s), if you stick to using EAC or dBpoweramp for ripping, coupled with a reliable burner and equally reliable media, then you'll have better error-free burns..I for one never burn at the slowest rated speed of the disc(s)..I use Pioneer and Optiarc drives and am very pleased with the results, and as stated b-fore, can't remember last time I had a coaster, err freesbie..
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  9. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    I hate to be a stickler, but lossless to lossless really is a conversion. Saying there is no conversion is an over simplification. You being an expert, will be quoted. How many times have you heard CDs store the music in wave files? That is not true and can muddy the waters. The CD format is a primitive lossless format like the wave file but it is not a wave file. There is even a conversion when you burn a wave file to a CD. I believe dbPA can actually rip to a CD format file. I think the format name is CDA (Compact Disc Audio). They are less primitive than a wave file because they hold check sums needed for optical reads which are not in wave files. I don't know why anyone would rip to CDAs. I don't think they are usable for anything. I don't think they are usable even in a normal audio burn process. I grimace saying all this because someone may try to be cool and build their on CD with CDA files which will probably not work because there is probably a bit more to an audio CD than just CDA files.

    Same data but a different format. Think of the process like converting from one database table to another database of a different format. You just move the data from one shell to another. You do not expect a loss of data when you do that.

    Sorry for getting so picky.
     
  10. k00ka

    k00ka Regular member

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    Not picky at all..A case of semantics perhaps(in my case)..In my response I was simply addressing the OP's concern regarding quality loss..As you well know my friend, lossless is just that, lossless..So converting/transcoding from lossless> <lossless will result in no quality loss..And of course no loss when decoding/decompressing a lossless file back to wav prior to burning..
    BTW, thanks for the compliment, I'm hardly an expert, but just love music and video stuff..I belong to a couple of other V/A forums, and unfortunately AD will not let me change my user-name w/o losing all my post count..
    And from time to time, most if not all experts, will learn something everyday my friend..
    Cheers!!..
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  11. labtec99

    labtec99 Member

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    My version of Dbpoweramp version 10 only rips to wave plus others like flac, but it doesn't rip to .CDA (Compact Disc Audio)

    Also like I say I can't have accurate rip enabled, does that mean I get rips but not as good as accurate rip?
     
  12. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    No, you are an expert here make no doubt about that. As you know this forum is a very small pond. What is nice about it is morons like the one that wants to be able to play a play list without the music can post here and not get thrown off because there is no anti-moron clause like with the serious audio forums. The bad part is we do not have the experts like those forums they have to settle for what we have. Still, I have not seen much that wasn't handled well in many years even without varnull.

    No one asks very technical questions here. She would handle them with ease.

    Only dead and stupid persons do not learn. That reminds me of an old Chinese saying dear to my heart. Wise men learn more from fools than fools learn from wise men.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  13. labtec99

    labtec99 Member

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    I have another writer now, and just thought to post the speed test, this time it went through without any errors.

    By the way this new writer lets me burn at x4 and x8 which the LG didn't.

    Does the test look not too bad?

    [​IMG]

    DAE Quality
    Quality 10
    Accurate Stream Yes

    Seek Times
    Random 83 ms
    1/3 92 ms
    Full 170 ms

    CPU Usage
    1X 1 %
    2X 2 %
    4X 4 %
    8X 7 %

    Interface
    Burst Rate 18249 KB/sec

    Spin Up/Down Times
    Spin Up Time 1.77 sec
    Spin Down Time 1.94 sec

    Load/Eject Times
    Load Time 1.07 sec
    Eject Time 1.68 sec
    Recognition Time 9.98 sec

    Log
    Time Elapsed Action
    [17:05:27] Starting Transfer Rate Test
    [17:08:12] 2:44 Speed:5-39 X CAV (29.48 X average)
    [17:08:12] Starting DAE Quality Test
    [17:08:17] Total errors: 0 (0.000 %)
    [17:08:17] DAE Quality: 10
    [17:08:32] 0:21 Accurate Stream: Yes
    [17:08:32] Starting Seek Times Test
    [17:08:41] Random Seek: 83 ms
    [17:08:50] 1/3 Seek: 92 ms
    [17:09:07] 0:35 Full Seek: 170 ms
    [17:09:07] Starting CPU Usage Test
    [17:09:22] CPU usage at 1X: 1 %
    [17:09:37] CPU usage at 2X: 2 %
    [17:09:52] CPU usage at 4X: 4 %
    [17:10:07] 1:00 CPU usage at 8X: 7 %
    [17:10:07] Starting Burst Rate Test
    [17:10:09] 0:02 Interface burst rate: 18 MB/sec (18249 KB/sec)
    [17:10:09] Starting Spin-Up/Down Test
    [17:10:15] Spin-up time: 1.77 seconds
    [17:10:26] 0:16 Spin-down time: 1.94 seconds
    [17:10:26] Starting Load/Eject Test
    [17:10:27] Eject time: 1.68 seconds
    [17:10:28] Load time: 1.07 seconds
    [17:10:38] 0:13 Recognition time: 9.98 seconds
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  14. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    Somehow I missed this.

    Check dbpa codec central

    Note CDA comes with dbPA by default. Maybe you are confused.

    dbPA allows you to add up to about 30 some encoders from its web site. They warn against overloading with codecs you do not need. I have had dbPA for 5 yrs from maybe V7. You could always add as many codecs as they had while your subscription was good. I stopped paying because I am very poor right now and I have ripped all my CDs so I may rip a dozen or 2 a year now. No need to pay for a subscription. EAC is fine for my needs. I have discovered my subscription still works. Maybe after 5 yrs they give you one yr for free. I get error messages but I still get the metadata. Maybe it is coming from freedb but it is pointing to the paid for subscription. It allows you to use many sources to metadata and many codecs.

    Accurip merely compares your CRC checks to the mean stored in their database as it adds your data to theirs. dbpa uses burst mode unless, which is quick and dirty unless accurip detects and error then it will cycle through various modes till it gets it right. If it can't use accurip it is inferior to EAC. I have needed to use EAC for something that was not in accurip and didn't come out right. The default mode for EAC is secure which is slower but more accurate. Normally that level of error checking is not necessary. Still for a test, dbpa should be pretty good even without accurip.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  15. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    We seem to be writing at the same time.

    I have no idea why Nero is letting you alter the speed. I really doubt if anyone in that company knows how the speeds are picked. They used to have some smart guys but they left a long time ago.

    The main reason I hate Nero is I got int a fight with the development manager about the speed issue. He blamed the speed choices on everything but Nero. I say if you want to burn at 1X you must have your reasons. He claimed the drive wouldn't let you. Except I had to burn apps that alowed you to pick any speed up to the max allowed by the blank. It is your computer and your blanks.

    I will not use a burning app that tells me what my burn speed is.

    Any reason you decided not to try imgburn. It is the most careful burn app on the market although it is shareware.

    I do not pretend to be an expert to tell you if it is good. I have burned many thousand disks and I know what works for me. I guess if I had burner problems I might educate myself in that area.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  16. labtec99

    labtec99 Member

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    Nero has always let the user change the speed settings just prior to the burn, but sometimes Nero only gives out certain speeds, but it obviously detects the info from the burner, the LG burner has from 16 to 48, this new Samsung writer allows even as low as x1 speed.

    Reason I don't use imgburn is I am not too happy with shareware products, freeware but never shareware, I can't be bothered with the limitations.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  17. Mez

    Mez Active member

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    It is the burner app of choice not because it is free but because it is the best and free. I have donated money to the cause. Money wasn't an issue then.

    Try it before you say you don't like it.
     

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