Intel P4 vs AMD

aabbccdd,

Don't look now but the X850 XT is now on sale for $164.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102688. his is good for us but------I can't see the $489 version being worth the difference!

Happy Com[utering,

theonejrs

 

great brobear i feel a little better now i DO have the Radeon edition,makes me afraid to buy that AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ (Dual-Core) at 650 bucks lol when next year it may be half the price i cant justify buying the FX-60 for over a grand. any opinions guys? or maybe the 4400 dual core will do at 499 hummm man to many to choices lol

 

With he Conroe coming out and Amd coming out with new chips. It seems to be a waste of of money to build until 2007. by then the kentsfield will be around and rule the cpus. The conroe will face off with the fx64 or is it 65. but at a way lower price. The conroe may not beat the Amd,but with a 600.00 diference, why go Amd?

 

@aabbccdd

i finally decided to pop into this thread after some urging...LOL, but generally speaking, prices on cpus are usually more favorable if you buy 1 or 2 notches below the "fastest" one available at the time...that's what i have done...i have the AMD 4400+ x2 dual core, i think it's very nice and more than adequate for my needs~

and, also, it's $458, not the $500 price tag u quoted, right now at newegg with FREE shipping and fortunately for YOU, no tax in ur state~

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103546

this will be my first venture in the whole "overclocking" game, as the past dozen systems i've built over the years i have never once "OC'd" any of them, this is due purely on the fact that i don't know how...LOL, i'm a total newbie in this aspect of computers...i can build computers with the best of them, installation is easy as pie, but i have no idea how to overclock any components i use in the build...thankfully, Sophocles has agreed to be my "teacher" of sorts on this whole thing...i'm willing to absorb and learn as much as i can at this point

@brobear

i've read many of the pages in this thread of yours, but i admit i have not read them all...i have noticed that you have the 3.4ghz northwood and are very fond of it...just curious if you would be interested in the RARE socket 478, 3.2ghz or 3.4ghz Extreme Edition, gallatin core - based on the Northwood core w/ the 2mb cache? (not the prescott core lga775 version) i was using both of these in my most recent system builds on my main daily use computers, but feel the need to sell one to recoop the cost of my recent AMD build...let me know if you or someone you know might be interested in the future...naturally, it's "used/system pull" but working perfectly, and as i mentioned earlier, never overclocked because i don't know how. i have tried a few times to sell it on ebay, even as a "best offer" auction, but i am not willing to let it go for the ridiculous prices some people were offering...LOL.

http://www.shentech.com/inpe43exed801.html (retail pricing, though out of stock)

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=p434ee&page=1
(general review and opinions)

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/cpu/article.php/3307281
(one of the better "reviews" about the pentium 4 EE and it's specs)

Overview:

The Pentium 4-3.4 GHz Extreme Edition is a far more standard processor release, and is simply a 200 MHz core speed upgrade to the previous Pentium 4-3.2 GHz EE model. The basic core specification remain intact, including the basic Northwood 8K L1/512K L2 cache levels, and the full 2-MB L3 cache injection found only on Extreme Edition models. This extra L3 cache is what separates the Pentium 4 Extreme Edition from the pack, and it can be quite useful in ramping up 3D gaming and multimedia performance, but is not as impressive when performing basic business tasks.

The base features of the newest Extreme Edition model are unchanged, and the Pentium 4-3.4 GHz EE is still built on the 0.13-micron process technology, uses an 800 MHz front-side bus, supports Hyper-Threading, and uses the Socket 478 package. What has changed is the overall core speed and performance, which we'll put to the test in our benchmarking section.

http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/3.2ee/

anyways, i have since taken the Extreme Edition pic. outta my sig, but thought i'd run it past you if you were even remotely interested~

anyways, i'll go back to lurking now and try to pick up more tips along the way, this thread is very educational for someone like me that knows NOTHING about overclocking whatsoever...

docTY~

 

As for the X2 4800+, it might be wise to wait until late June. There's going to be a "13 to 50 percent price reduction for all AMD X2 processors" this month, and no doubt the price will drop again once the AM2 variants, including the FX-62 appear. Once they're out you could get a 4600+ for a very reasonable price, or even a 4800, since there'll be three CPUs sitting above it.

 

Thanks i was just about to buy 2 X2's one for a computer im building and another for this one which i am going to upgrade but now i will wait a little longer, thanks
P.S
Does Intel still make processors,lol i havent seen them in a bestbuy,circuit city or comp usa sale paper in like 6 months i wonder how they feel about that.......

 

There will always be another cpu around the corner. If you want faster then you have then buy today. If the newer procs are that much better then goody. Time to upgrade again.

You don't have to buy the fastest to get the fastest. A good midrange choice and an overclock will get you the same speed as the top dollar procs. The 1000 dollar processors are for bragging rights only.

 

The 3.4 EE Gallatin proc would be a collectors item but it is way to slow to bring a lot of extra money when you can get much faster for cheaper.
I have may such expensive collectors items in my office. Can't bear to sell them for the nothing that they bring.

 

@64026402

yes, i understand that those socket 478 EE's i have are more of a "collectors item" as you stated, but for any avid "collector" of rare/difficult to find cpus, it's quite a diamond in the rough...and to be one of the few "kids on the block" that have the know-how and capabilities of overclocking it (i certainly would NOT fall under that category), it might prove to be a nice new "project" that would be fairly impressive in today's standard for an older chipset~

there are PLENTY of cpus that will blow my EEs away, that is a fact, but i just figured i would put it out there for brobear as it seems like he is very fond of the Northwood core, Gallatin cores they might be labelled as, but they are based on the Northwood core rather than the Prescott, which incidentally i have found to be running hotter and slower than the Northwoods i have built in the past (my personal opinion of course, i've built plenty of computers in the past, but don't have the know-how to overclock any of them...)

docTY~

 

kivory666

Interesting, but as I stated earlier, even the best of single cores aren't economically feasible when dual cores are priced so reasonably. The Donald pointed that out as well within the past couple of pages.

A couple of years ago in their prime, the Northwoods and Gallatins were king of the hill. I'm fond of the one I have and it was a decent price on the Northwood when I got it. Even at that price ($265), I wouldn't run out and buy another. Here's a link to the CPU you were discussing and this one is the 3.4GHz 2MB L3 Cache version. http://www.starmicro.net/detail.aspx?ID=556 I suspect they're pulls, but they're about half price ($525) of a new retail item. They were priced higher, but they dropped the prices drastically. Guess they couldn't sell many at the higher prices. I wonder how many they'll sell at the current prices. (Poor warranty unless extra is purchased.) The CPU I have is $250 less and for old tech, I don't see the improvement being worth it.

If I didn't point it out, I started out updating an older Dell I have setting around as "the workhorse". It was supposed to be just an upgrade, not a new build. I'm anticipating a dual core build sometime in the not so distant future. (I'm not so anxious to buy in right now.) I went ahead and bought the supporting hardware for the new custom, I don't see those parts changing drastically. All I needed was the mobo to be able to play with the parts and Northwood while waiting for the dual core build. I picked up a Radeon card to keep from robbing another PC. I wish I could have picked up one at the current prices, but even those are PCIe and not the AGP I needed.

As for OC(ing), I wish I'd started doing it sooner. With mild OC(s) it doesn't strain the system and it's an easy way to pick up some extra performance. With mine the memory starts to suffer if I push it too far, so I keep it clocked below the stable upper limits. Full load for hours and it only climbs up to 40C while outperforming the 3.8GHz Prescotts and FX-57 AMDs. To tell the truth, without revisiting the posted benches, The FX-57 wins at Arithmetic and the P4 Nortwood takes Multimedia. So, the Northwood is holding it's own with a mild OC. I still wouldn't buy another one though, unless it was a real deal of course.

I'm curious as to how the Gallatin (with a little OCing) would compare to the Northwood, but not curious enough to lay out any big bucks. So, I'll not insult you with any lowball offers. I've got some overpriced relics laying around that I could never sell for what I invested. So, I think I know a little about how you (and The Donald) feel about parting with some of "the collection".

 

Baltekmi,

What are you smoking, Dude. By the time AMD gets done with Intel in Court, Intel will be paying for most of AMD's R & D. They have a list of Corporate execs a mile long who have made statements about Intel's vindictive policies and they are all going to be subpenaed. The list of legitimate complaints against Intel is very long. The least of which is "Restraint of Trade", Unfair Business Practices, Corporate blackmail and a whole raft of other things. AMDs are going to rule for a long time to come. It's payback time!!!

Happy Computering,
theonejrs

 

theonejrs
Whatcha smokin' Dude? Most of what you'll get from execs that might be damaging would be from disgruntled employees. As the old saying goes, "I know I sure wouldn't bite the hand that feeds me." Lawyers are paid to hang litigation in court so long, maybe the grandkids of the AMD execs will see the dough. I suspect there'll be some rinky dink settlement similar to what Gates was hit with. Maybe big by the working man's standards, but not much in the corporate world, nothing that will really hurt anything. Then I may be wrong, often am. But at this point it's still speculation. We'll know when we see the rulings.

 

sammorris, great info iam leaning towards the 2x4800+ AMD anyway so i can def. wait a couple months

 

theonejrs
If you really think that the lawsuit is going to amount to anything but a slap on the wrist, I will start smoking! there is always going to be amd and intel. I am intel fan and I show it. The the never ending ladder " cpu at the top" will be traded back and forth forever with out any one reaching the clouds. we will always be waiting for that next best. But as soon as we have it, there is a new next best coming out.

 

@brobear

i totally agree with your points and The Donald's as well, the chips i have right now are somewhat of a "relic" by today's standards and i agree that if one were to have "deep pockets," then the extra price paid to have a "collector's item" might be worth it~

but, realistically speaking, when i was trying to sell them a few months back, i was asking very close to the starmicro amount that you had linked~ i am pretty confident that the ones starmicro are listing on their website are definitely "system pulls" or the OEM version which only has the 1-year Intel warranty~ or possibly worse, a 30-day warranty as i've seen some places/online retailers claim mine happens to be retail box version, with the Intel 3-year warranty, not that it would matter all that much to the avg. consumer, but technically we are dealing with 2 different "lines" in Intel's product coding~

anyways, i'm not trying to dump these chips off to anyone and rip them off, basic research on the web will justify the relative "value" and "current market cost" on these chips; i was, at the time, offering them between $500-$600 shipped via Priority Mail w/ full insurance for that price~

i think i will take your advice brobear and juss keep these 2 puppies in my "collection," you can imagine how taken aback i was when ebay members were offering a "best offer" of $300 not too long ago, to ME personally, they are worth much more than that...some ebay dude even offered me $150 shipped since it was "used", i was laughing for about 10 min. straight while holding the chip in my hands~ LOL

if you do a quick search on ebay, most sellers are fairly reasonable about pricing and they are hoping for a bidding war to up the price, for example, this guy...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6867809423&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1

buy it now of $675 and his reserve was not met @$455~

or this guy for a RETAIL NEW 3.2ghz EE

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6866812556&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX

still going up in price very close to the $500 range~

or this guy @$305 right now for a "used" version with 6 days left!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6868495341&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX

well, no need for me to bore you further with my quick ebay searches, i can't personally justify a viable offer of less than $500 for either one of my EEs...i think i'll just store them away safely and rebuild an "old/antique" system later down the road for fun~ ah, the memories of old technology~

have a good one all~

docTY~

 

Baltekmi & Brobear,

Just kidding about the "smoking"! I agree that by the average persons standards the settlement will be huge but by corporate standards it won't amount to much. After all this is the U.S.A., home of the "Best Justice money can buy"! Still with all the ballywho about the Conroe "beating out" the AMD with a hand-picked CPU and MB for Intel and a lame MB for the AMD it seems to me that if Intel had something really "Bad", they would have put it out there and let it speak for itself. That's pretty much what AMD has done.

It's not just disgruntled employees it's execs and CEOs who have seen their market share shrink because of the "blackmail" Intel uses. Far too many people in high places have bitched and leaked things to the press complaining, and now they are going to have to go into court and what? Deny they said the quoted things. I mean, what is HP & Compaq going to do, say they were never offered a million "free" CPUs. What possible excuse could they use to justify that? They even made their own situation worse by accepting the ones that they did take and then turning down the rest of the deal. I think any Judge in his right mind would love to hear the answer to that one!

Look at the Dell/Alienware deal. Do you think Dell is going to bring out a front line "Gamer" with Intel Inside on the cover. Not very likely! I don't know how things are where you all come from but here in So Cal, AMDs rule lan parties and the market is huge! If Dell did go ahead and do that, Alienware would become a tax write-off!

I fully expect Intel to bounce back, but I don't see them ever again being in the position they once were, at least not in market share. Right now AMD has the superior product and you can bet your bippie that they haven't been basking in their glory without new and more sophisticated CPUs waiting in the wings, ready to meet and beat the competition. Let's just hope that they don't make the same dumb mistakes that Intel did!

Happy Computering,
theonejrs

 

Actually you can get a Gallitin for 340 dollars today. Looks like there are plenty.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Extreme-Edition...ryZ80144QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I don't see you getting 500 dollars anytime soon.

 

Theonejrs
Unless they've changed, some of the top gamers are still using Intel. Also, Alienware has a high-end Intel gamer. AMDs are good and they have bragging rights for now, but they're not [bold]THAT[/bold] good. Benches aren't everything.

By the way, I'm not cheering for either side. Both AMD and Intel make a good product. As I've stated before, if I was buying now, it would be either an AMD dual core CPU for a custom or an Intel Duo Core Centrino laptop for those times when I'm away from home. Since I'm not needing a building "fix" immediately, I can wait to see what's on the market later this year. Also, with the duo core laptops, I hate to pay those high prices for the "new product". I'm gonna wait till the prices drop.

kivory666
Leave it to The Donald to google up the best prices. I don't know how he does it sometimes. With my luck, everything on eBay gets jacked up.

 

64026402

If I'd seen something like that before the dual cores, I would have bought at those prices. Now though, it doesn't make sense performance wise.