Intel P4 vs AMD

Sophocles
I forgot to mention, both the Donald and I agreed that P4s are pretty much history. I don't need to be reminded. The P4 I have is good enough to hold me over till the better dual cores come out and some of the prices drop.

 

Trouble is, the more that's available, the higher we want to go!
A stretch to a 4400 once the AM2 platform is out will be tempting but I have to resist!

 

brobear

Of course you need to be reminded, how else am I going to yank your chain. LOL

The transistor count of the Northwood Xeons, Galatin cores, and Northwood cores at all speeds are exactly the same. How Intel and AMD determine the speeds during early production is by stress testing every single chip to see how fast they will run. If they pass all the tests perfectly then they rise to the top of the line but if they demonstrate some difficulty then they fill the lower niches based on individual performance. This is called "Binning."

After a time the manufacturing process usually becomes stable and all CPU's start to pass all tests but in order to maintain the lower price points, chip manufacturers still lower the clock multipliers so that they can still sell low end CPUs. This is where the saavy oveclocking enthusiasts reap the rewards. If you strip away the Cache on the Galatin and replace it with that of the standard Northwood, that's what you it will become just a standard Northwood.

 

Which of course means that the first to buy a new processor will find overclocking difficult.

 

That depends on the processor. Sometimes they get it right before using customers as test subjects.

Sophocles
On the transistor count for the EE and regualar version of the Northwood, I was going by the Intel count. I understand binning. Now who was that masked man who suggested I should get a board with adjustments to tweak my P4? I think his name begins and ends with S (S-o-p-h-o-c-l-e-s). What are those little blocks on the pin side of the P4 CPU?

 

aabbccdd,

I missed a post of yours a couple of days ago when you asked what AMD I would go with. The "smart" money would be an Opteron 175 or an Athlon64x2 4400+. The money difference between these two is less than $40. With the Athlons, the 4600+ costs more for a minimal gain in performance and has a smaller cache. The 4800+ while having twice the cache, costs even more and doesn't have as much "user friendly" headroom for overclocking. It's a great chip but like most chip makers top chips it's pretty well topped out stock. There just isn't enough advantage unless you have to have that absolute little bit more performance. It's just not worth the price difference. At least not to me! Also there's the Opteron 180, but at $200 or so more I don't think it's worth the money just to be "KIng of the Hill".

I will probably wind up with something similar to what Sophocles has! A 175 Denmark in an Asus A8N-SLI motherboard. Why SLI? You never know what's around the bend, video wise. You can't use it if you don't have it. Besides, it works just fine with one video card and if someone comes out with a radical new video card that blows away everything before it, I'm ready! Sophocles benchmarks are awsome with his setup and his "real-world" performance is outstanding. I've got 1 GB of Corsair XMS cas2 memory and I'll add another GB for 2 GB total.

One of the advantages of being old (I'm 61) is you learn patience! Like I have said in previous posts, "this time I've done my homework",so I'll do it right this time. It should be "Bad"!!! and it will definatly rock!

Happy Computering,
theonejrs

 

Hi guys,
Hey I thought Sophocles has dual-core Opteron (Denmark)?

LoL :^) Touchy!
They are still powerful and fine (just not looking into 2007...)
New!
http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2736
Anand Lal Shimpi has tested the new D-805 against other entry-level CPUs, single and dual (A64 x2, Opteron 144 and 165, D-820 and D-920).
Results very interesting!
I love (and use) the Opteron 144. But the damn cheap little D-805 is better with dual-threaded stuff like Quake4... even on the old 533FSB.
Note: the Opteron uses less watts @ full load than the D-805 at idle :^) LoL
So save yer $$ on the cheap Intel dual CPU (but don't forget the 600w powersupply).
Regards

 

The_OGS,

He does. did I mislead someone with my post? I was under the impression that the 175 Opteron was a dual core CPU. Did I miss something important? Aren't all 175s dual core?

theonejrs

 

Yep indeedy!

 

Never mind - it was 64026402 talking about Sophocles and his Venice core (and then Sophocles himself) so evidently his entry-level A64 was a Venice single...
L8R

 

By the By,

Here's the screenshot from Spy Kids 3 2D I was talking about.



Sweet!

theonejrs

 

Lol that's about as clear as you get!

 

theonejrs, good info i was leaning towards the AMD 4200+ also seems to be the most bang for the buck but if prices drop in june as sammorris posted i may go with the AMD 4800+ we well wait and see ,iam in no big hurry either being patience is def. worth it. the top end CPU (FX-60) are for bragging rights only as said and i cant justify spending 1000 dollars plus.

brobear which AMD Dual-core are you leaning towards?

 

And of course you can overclock pretty much any of the X2 series to get to the 2600mhz clock speed to make an FX-60. Admittedly less cache with the 3800, 4200 and 4600, but nothing a few more mhz wouldn't put right eh?
From what I hear, a 4200 can easily be overclocked to 2500mhz (essentially a 4800+) so might as well go low, with good memory. I don't see that as wasting the extra saved by a lower CPU because good RAM is a must for stability anyway.

 

aabbccdd,

The 4400+ is the far better choice because of it's broader overhead. If I remember rightly, Sophocles said the the multiplier is better so it's much more user friendly when it comes to over-clocking. Me, I will more than likely get the Opteron 175 Denmark which appears to be the same core design family. For $40 difference it's worth it to get the Opteron. Either the 4400+ or the 175 Denmark give you the most bang for the buck, and then some. I've heard the both of them can be clocked higher than the 4800+ or the Opteron 180. The 4800+ is $170 more than the 4400+ and the 180 Opteron is about $200 or so higher than the 175. Since their headroom is much smaller, I'm inclined to believe that these are ramped up 4400+ Toledos and 175 Denmarks that just run at a higher clock speed. The Opteron family has better silicone and are been binned but the price/performance ratio is just not good enough to justify the $200 price difference for the 180! I'm not cheap but I have learned to be smarter when I buy. I'm less impulsive now and pay attention to the people who know about these things in this forum. Ask Sophocles and see what he has to say. His benchmarks are staggering!!!

By the way, Opterons were designed for servers so they are designed to run 24/7 which is another thing to think about. Athlon64x2 4400+ Toledo $468, Opteron 175 Denmark $506. To me it's a no-brainer. I'll pay the extra $38! Just my opinion and 2 cents worth, of course.

Happy Computering,
theonejrs

 

Sam

I don't see "on-chip" cache as being that much more important than that of 512K per-core, on most of todays chips!! BY!!! CPU performance can only work when the gates are all open and there's a place for data to run. It's What I like to call it! The "Cool Use" and not determined by CPU bandwidth alone!!!! Fiction/truth! LOL.

 

aabbccdd
My leanings are toward the Opterons, better binning. Bang for the buck, it's the 175. If I had the $200 extra to waste, I might consider the 180. The 185 borders on insanity. I'll never pay that much for bragging rights over the units just below it.

 

iam taking your advice guys and will probably go with the Opteron 175 Denmark also maybe there will be a price drop coming.ok now which motherboard am i going to need ,i know the one i have in my sig is not going to work.

looks like its run 504.00 at newegg also

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103584

and this is my best bet for ram right guys?

Corsair XMS DDR 400 2 gigs
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145486

 

sammorris
Are you saying that ages of empires3 will tax my system at full?
I play that without it moving above 48c.

 

brobear
so you are a democrat... I know we had somthing in commom. It seems nobody is addressing the issue of the kentsfield 4core design, with 4 gig cash.