Intel P4 vs AMD

crowy,

I went to the link you posted and checked it out. I read all the reviews and then went to Newegg to check out all of their motherboards. One thing I noticed was that Newegg has a lot, and I mean a lot of "refurbished" DFI MBs. I've read refrences to "newbies" and their difficulties with NF-4 MBs. That doesn't make any sense as most newbies wouldn't consider a MB this expensive in the first place. Many newbies are very young and don't have a lot of money so I don't see them spending $30 to $40 more for the MB when that money could go towards more memory or a better video card. There are a great many quality motherboards available for a lot less money. Of the 20 motherboards newegg lists for DFI, 7 of them are refurbished. That means that too many have been returned. This makes me more than a little "gun-shy"

I also rarely ever hear anything about DFI MBs in this forum. I hear Asus, Abit, MSI and Gigabyte but nothing about DFI. Makes me even a little more "gun-shy". Several members have done recent builds. None of them used DFI motherboards. These are very knowlegable people. Seems to me that if this MB was that good, someone would have mentioned it!

After carefull consideration, the winner is:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131540 I noticed that a number of people who bought this motherboard, also had an A8N32. It's obvious from the reviews that this is the better motherboard!

Happy Computering,
theonejrs

 

Theonejrs
Looks like you're willing to spend a few dollars for a high end mobo. I like the choice. However, look at all you can add for about $30 more with the A8N32, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131568 . I especially like the fanless cooling system on this one with the copper tube and all the fins. Just think how well a Zalman will work on that. Plus, there's that impressive list of extra features. Check the list and compare.

 

theonejrs,
I noticed out of 42 ASUS boards there are 22 refurbished ones for sale.
Thats over 50% refurbished.
Out of 19 DFI boards(not 20) there are 6(not 7) refurbished ones for sale.
Thats less than a third
I never did like guns.

 

Neoseeker Review

Below is a synopsis of the full Neoseeker Review.

DFI LanParty UT nF4 Ultra-D
Feb 22, 05
The DFI LanParty UT nF4-Ultra-D is going to make some major waves. The board design is top notch - putting the memory above the processor socket is a good idea as there is arguably more airflow there than on the far side of the board. DFI makes a concerted effort to get most of the cabling in a single spot. For those who put value into the aesthetics of their case and boards, the nF4 has a slick color theme that is not overly flashy until the blacklight is turned on at which point all the plastics start to glow. We liked the fact that a PCIe 4x slot was included along with two x16 and a single x1 which provides more flexibility when PCIe expansion cards hit the market en masse. Dual Xpress Graphics is a nice option for those that are not looking for SLI.

Another core strength of DFI's engineering prowess is the BIOS and the options available on the nF4 Ultra-D should make any enthusiast salivate. Those that like to tweak their memory in particular will have a field day. The number of memory adjustment options available is almost overwhelming. Voltage adjustments for the CPU is pretty unique. Besides the standard 0.0125 voltage stepping, DFI also has something an additional fine tuner if you will - a multiplier can be applied to the base voltage to fine tune the actual voltage fed to the CPU in even smaller increments. Here's a summary of some of the available BIOS settings:

FSB Bus Speed 200-456 Mhz in 1 Mhz increments
HyperTransport Ratio 1-3 in 0.5 steppings 3-5 in integer steppings
HyperTransport Bandwith 8/8, 16/8, 8/16, 16/16
CPU Multiplier Ratios 4 to CPU Max in 0.5 steppings
PCI Express Frequency 100-145Mhz in 1 Mhz steppings
CPU Voltage 0.800-1.550 in 0.0125v steppings; voltage multiplier settings 1.00, 1.04, 1.10, 1.13, 1.23, 1.26, 1.33, 1.36
HyperTransport Voltage 1.20v to 1.50v in 0.1v steppings
Chipset Voltage 1.5v to 1.8v in 0.1v steppings
DRAM Voltage 2.5v to 4.9v in 0.1v steppings
Memory Divider 1:2, 3:5, 2:3, 7:10, 3:4, 5:6, 9:10, 1:1
Command Per Clock On/Off
CAS Latency Control (TCL) 1.0-4.5 in 0.5 steppings
RAS Latency Control (TCL) 0-7 Bus Clocks
Min RAS active time (Tras) 0-15 Bus Clocks
Row Precharge Time (Trp) 0-7 Bus Clocks
le time (Trc) 7-22 Bus Clocks
Row Refresh Cycle Time (Trfc) 9-24 Bus Clocks
Row to Row Delay (Trrd) 0-7 Bus Clocks
Write Recover Time (Twr) 2-3 Bus Clocks
Write to Read Delay (Twtr) 1-2 Bus Clocks
Read to Write Delay (Trwt) 1-8 Bus Clocks
Refresh Period (Tref) 16-4708 Cycles; varied stepping size
Write CAS Latency (Twcl) 1-8 Bus Clocks
DRAM Bank Interleave On/Off
DQS Skew Control Increase/Decrease Skew
DQS Skew Value 0-255
DRAM Drive Strength Level 2-8
DRAM Data Drive Strength Level 1-4
Max Async Latency 1-15ns
Read Preamble Time 2-9.5ns in 0.5 ns steppings
Idle Cycle Limit 0-256 Cycles; stepping increments are double the previous value
Dynamic Counter Enable/Disable
R/W Queue Bypass 0,4,8,16
Bypass Max 0-7
32 Byte Granularity 4 or 8 Bursts

Fast, stable, great looks and phenomenal overclocking abilities (stable 365Mhz FSB on our review sample) are highlights of the LanParty UT nF4 Ultra-D. It is hard to highlight all the positives about an excellent product without sounding too gushy but the nF4 Ultra-D is just that good. Definitely a must have for anyone serious about overclocking.

For more information, or to view the full review article, go to:
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/dfinf4ultralp/


Product Details

LANPARTY UT Ultra-D exclusive features

* DXG(Dual Xpress Graphics) supported
* Karajan Audio(Theater like7.1 /8ch supported)
* Dual Gigabit LAN
* nVIDIA nVRAID
* nVIDIA nTune(embedded overclocking solution)
* nVIDIA ActiveArmor (Embedded hardware firewall & network solution)
* nF4 chipset supported Serial ATA(3Gb/s)
* 100% Japanese Capacitors
* UV sensitive slots
* EZ-on / EZ-touch onboard switch button
* CMOS reloaded
* All New Genie BIOS


Specifications

CPU

* AMD Athlon 64 FX / Athlon 64 / Sempron
* Socket 939

Chipset

* NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra

Front Side Bus

* 2000MT/s HyperTransport interface

Memory

* Four 184-pin DDR SDRAM DIMM sockets
* Supports dual channel (128-bit wide) memory interface
* Supports up to 4GB system memory
* Supports DDR266, DDR333 and DDR400 DDR SDRAM DIMM

BIOS

* Award BIOS
* CMOS Reloaded
* CPU/DRAM overclocking
* CPU/DRAM/Chipset overvoltage
* 4Mbit flash memory

Power Management

* Supports ACPI STR (Suspend to RAM) function
* Wake-On-Events include:
o Wake-On-PS/2 Keyboard/Mouse
o Wake-On-USB Keyboard/Mouse
o Wake-On-LAN
o RTC timer to power-on the system
* AC power failure recovery

Hardware Monitor

* Monitors CPU/system/chipset temperature
* Monitors 12V/5V/3.3V/Vcore/Vbat/5Vsb/Vchipset/Vdram voltages
* Monitors the speed of the CPU fan, Fan 2 and chipset fan
* CPU Overheat Protection function monitors CPU temperature during system boot-up

Audio

* Karajan audio module
o - Realtek ALC850 8-channel audio CODEC
o - 6 audio jacks
o - 1 CD-in connector
o - 1 front audio connector
* S/PDIF-in/out interface

LAN

* Dual Gigabit LAN - Vitesse VSC8201 Gigabit Phy and Marvell 88E8001 Gigabit PCI
* Fully compliant to IEEE 802.3 (10BASE-T), 802.3u (100BASE-TX) and
* 802.3ab (1000BASE-T) standards

IDE

* Two IDE connectors that allows connecting up to four UltraDMA 133Mbps hard drives
* NVIDIA RAID allows RAID arrays spanning across Serial ATA and Parallel ATA
* RAID 0 and RAID 1

Serial ATA with RAID

* Four Serial ATA ports
* SATA speed up to 3Gb/s
* RAID 0 and RAID 1
* NVIDIA RAID allows RAID arrays spanning across Serial ATA and Parallel ATA

IEEE 1394

* VIA VT6307
* Supports two 100/200/400 Mb/sec ports

Rear Panel I/O Ports

* 1 mini-DIN-6 PS/2 mouse port
* 1 mini-DIN-6 PS/2 keyboard port
* 2 S/PDIF RCA jacks (S/PDIF-in and S/PDIF-out)
* Karajan audio module (6 audio jacks)
* 1 IEEE 1394 port
* 2 RJ45 LAN ports
* 6 USB 2.0/1.1 ports

I/O Connectors

* 2 connectors for 4 additional external USB 2.0/1.1 ports
* 1 connector for 1 external IEEE 1394 port
* 1 connector for 1 external serial port
* 1 front audio connector for external line-out and mic-in jacks (on the Karajan audio module)
* 1 CD-in internal audio connector (on the Karajan audio module)
* 1 S/PDIF connector for optical cable connection
* 1 IR connector
* 4 Serial ATA connectors
* 2 IDE connectors
* 1 floppy connector
* 1 24-pin ATX power connector
* 1 4-pin ATX 12V power connector
* 2 4-pin 5V/12V power connectors (FDD-type and HDD type)
* 1 front panel connector
* 5 fan connectors
* 4 diagnostic LEDs
* EZ touch switches (power switch and reset switch)

Expansion Slots

* 2 PCI Express x16 slots
* 1 PCI Express x1 slot
* 1 PCI Express x4 slot
* 2 PCI slots

PCB

* ATX form factor
* 24cm (9.45") x 30.5cm (12")

 

brobear,
the A8N32 had a lot of complaints concerning heat in it's reviews. Part of the reason I made the choice I made was the across the board 10C cooler running of this MB. Many reviewers bought the A8N SLI Premium after owning an A8N32. It should run quite a bit cooler than my present computer. I'll be using the same case and fan layout as I have now, as well as most of the same components. I suspect that the 92mm Thermatake fan in the front will not be needed with this MB. I added this a few months ago and it does help drop the temps a small amount. With the AMD Opteron 175 running much cooler than the Intel Prescott, the passive chipset cooling and the Zalman 9500, it should run very cool. And very fast!!!

I've got 3 paydays in June and everything will come together by mid-June. The plan is to order an Opteron 175 or a Athlon 64x2 4400+ at the end of may/beginning of June and the MB in mid-June. I'll still have a few odds and ends to purchase such as a video card but I'll have more than enough to cover it thanks to the extra payday!

crowy,
Maybe the number of refurbished motherboards was not a fair comparisum to make. Since we have no idea of the actual number of returns per model, it's redundant. Poor choice on my part! There is no doubt that the DFI board is feature laden but I have to doubt the usefullnes for my purposes. I don't game so most of it is window dressing to me. I want the A8N SLI Premium because a. It's an Asus and I've had great success with them. b. It has passive cooling for the chipset and runs considerably cooler than previous SLI models. It should be a lot quieter than a MB with 7 fans. d. It's the board Sophocles uses and his smokes!



Happy Computering,
theonejrs

 

I particularly like this,
Fast, stable, great looks and phenomenal overclocking abilities (stable 365Mhz FSB on our review sample) are highlights of the LanParty UT nF4 Ultra-D. It is hard to highlight all the positives about an excellent product without sounding too gushy but the nF4 Ultra-D is just that good. Definitely a must have for anyone serious about overclocking.

 

Sorry double post:-(

 

I've owned 2 Asus board and I've loved them. Especially this one. Like you said, the Asus A8N-SLI has a crapload of features. If you wanted, you could have a total of 8 hard drives running on this mother board. 2 IDE, 6 SATA Ports = 8 Hard Drives. Not to mention a crapload of USB Ports for External Hard Drives, its insane. Gigabyte LAN is a plus too. THe board itself doesnt seem to run hot. Everything is super cool from my standpoint and you can't beat the features. It also has Firewire Port, but I don't know what the hell that is so I disabled it.

Anyways don't be worried about Asus in terms of quality. I agree with the last post that a lot of people buy Asus who don't know much and screw up their build. Hell, when I built my first computer I was nervous as hell too.

I'm probably the only guy you know who builds a new computer from scratch completely naked because I'm paranoid of Static Electricity frying something, lol.

But seriously, Asus rocks.

 

sorry guys havent been around for a few days my IE got highjacked and it took me 3 nights to get it worked out ,man it was a mess thought i was going to have to reformat but i was able to fix it in safe mode with spysweeper theres an option in there to reset your IE and it seemed to work from there i cleaned the system totaly out and iam back it business lol. anyway sammorris have you heard what kind of price drop AMD is going to have in June iam opting for the AMD Opteron 175 Denmark mid june also, maybe we can OC together theonejrs and see how we come out iam set on everything else system wise maybe a different fan setup

 

@theonejrs

I think you are making a wise choice of M/B's with that one!

 

Theonejrs

I chose the A8N-SLI premium over the A8N32-SLI for a number of reasons.

1. I would never see any benefits of 2X16 PCIe over 2X8PCIe and I will probably stick with just one card but if not two will be more than enough on the premium.

2. The two PCIe express blocks two of the PCI slots leaving only one open (I'm already filling two PCI slots on my premium).

3. No need to spend the extra money.

As far as chipset over heating is concerened the two are about the same, they both rely on your CPU fan for part of their cooling.

 

The DFI is a decent board for those without the setup skill necessary to make a higher end board work. But personal experience has shown me that years after the DFI has worn out and died the Asus will still run fine. Even with the same chipset. Been there done that many times.

 

As far as RAM goes, do you guys recommend 1GB's or 2GB's. I have a 1GB of PC2700 in my current POS. I've been told that DDR can outperform DDR2 under most circumstances, is that true? For my next rig, it'll 1GB or 2GB. Also is there say a huge difference in performance between mid level quality RAM like crucial.com and high level RAM like OCZ? I currently have 2X512MB's, one PNY Tech, the other crucial.com, so no cheap stuff there. What do you guys think? Thanks for the info.

 

Though both the A8N-SLi Premium and the A8N32-SLi deluxe are out of my reach, I'd go for the Premium as it only needs one chipset, rather than two. With two passively cooled chipsets, you need a good airflow round them to stop things getting pretty warm. I can add an Akasa 23dB LED chipset cooler to my build for £3, and I think installed with Arctic Silver V. In addition, the standard KN8 one is probably noiser than 23dB, so there's another benefit. I don't need SLi, External S-ATA, 8-drive RAID or any of those features, and whilst UV reactivity would be nice, I don't need that either. A UV reactive PSU braid will do just fine.

I had this longstanding impression that DFI boards were good quality, partly due to their expense and their UV reactivity, but you're right, I rarely see people using them. How odd.

vspede: LOL! Glad you don't work in a repair shop on show!

Tokijin: There's no quality issue about Crucial, but you're best bet is Corsair Value Select. Cheap, reliable, high performance and fantastically overclockable. 1GB is fine for now, but you'll need 2GB eventually as games get bigger and Vista rears its ugly head.

 

@sammorris, Hey I just wanted to thank you for steering me toward the dual cores,as you can see(link below) it is running great,cool and stable.Truly the best pc upgrade for me to date.
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/130/235934

 

You're very welcome, they're fabulous Processors. You've pretty much got a 38 running like a 48 with that little overclock, and I bet it wasn't hard. Tom's Hardware got an FX-60, essentially a very similar design to reach 3.0Ghz. Astonishing speed, truly. Beats the Pentium 4 D965 overclocked to 4233mhz!

 

Thanks for the info. I'm avoiding VISTA like the black plague, at least until the DRM crap is hacked, I'll happily go with a Linux Box until then. Crucial.com is good memory, and there customer service is fantastic. I thought Corsair was rather pricy, that's not the case?

 

Tokijin
If you're going to OC the system, go with the better RAM. Though budget RAM will work, the performance RAM works better. As a personal preference I use XMS Corsair, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145574 . You may want to check out the DDR 433 as well. OCZ is another favorite as far as performance RAM goes. There's a good 2X1GB set at newegg for about the same price as the XMS. With RAM, you usually get what you pay for.

As for amount of RAM, if a person can afford it, go ahead and get 2GB. The system I'm using has 2. It's a loaded up XP with apps running in the background. Sometimes I'm using about 1GB of RAM. If I had only 1GB, I'd be slowing the system down at times. With my older system with 1GB, I'd sometimes try to open a new window and have to wait till the system allocated resources. Now there's no such problems.

You keep saying so and so said this or that. "So and so" has led you down the garden path on some things. Who are these people that have been telling you all these things?

 

@brobear

while i can not answer that question FOR tokijin, i believe that some BASIC information has been obtained from me as well as other people contributing in my Taiyo Yuden thread...

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/296925

we've since gone off topic and after my most recent AMD build that Sophocles helped me with the settings on (thank you again btw Soph), people are asking about memory, drives, processors, etc... i mentioned both you and Sophocles by name as being 2 guys with a WEALTH of knowledge and i let people know i PERSONALLY trust both your advice/suggestions; i'm not downplaying anyone else here in this thread as many know MUCH MUCH more than me regarding computers, but i have posted MY OWN SUGGESTIONS as to what i have used in the past or currently use on my various systems (whether it be my Intel Extreme Edition- Northwood/Gallatin core as well as my new AMD 4400+ x2 dual core)

as your thread has seen, there are many posts that "prefer" one company over others and have valid reasons to back up their claims (through various articles however biased they may or may not be), something similar is happening at this point in my thread too, people have their own "favorites" or whatnot and PREFER this over that, while some posts MAY or MAY NOT be completely accurate, most people that ask in my thread are concerned about the "basics" of components, not the details which have been discussed here...

please feel free to contribute or CORRECT ME if i am wrong about something that i say, i always welcome knowledgeable experience and recommendations; as i mentioned before here in your thread, i am completely new to the OC aspect of things, but thanks to Sophocles, i have gotten my feet wet and am still learning more with each passing day.

docTY~

 

See for yourself,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145579
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145568

Much though I hate to disagree with brobear, I don't think you necessarily get what you pay for with RAM. Good value RAM at £60/GB in the UK may do almost as well as £100/GB extreme performance stuff, yet other £60/GB RAM can be absolutely terrible. Elixir stuff used to be cheap to justify its poorness, but now its no cheaper than Crucial or Corsair stuff. What the deuce??

Teach and learn!

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