Intel P4 vs AMD

Yes but just as it's good manners to not use abusive language, which you have obeyed, it's also good manners to keep threads on topic. none of us are particularly shining examples, but psychology really is left for the thoughts forum. I don't have to read it, but I did. It is polite to post something that relates to this topic. Consequently, If I read unrelated information in this post, someone isn't being polite.
I'm not telling you off, I'm not moaning, it's not my place to, but all we respectfully ask is keep this particular thread to Intel vs AMD.

 

I understand, I should have kept what I stated more closely to the point rather than the analogy I gave. Like a lot of other people in psychology I do have a shortcoming of being too expressive. But, I in no way think that what anyone said here is not valid or that anyone here is not intelligent. Back when I was younger I strove towards concretism, so you can see actually one can never deny internaly because i have to be if i am stating it even if it is about the other. I have learned a lot from this experience and yeah I have to admit that if kept it shorter and not drawn the issue too far it may not have caused the ruckuss that it did.

 

Off topic for a moment...

There is a saying, "Ask him the time, and he tells you how to build a watch!"

Unfortunately, one doesn't have to do with the other.

I do hope this thread is back on topic now, Intel P4 vs AMD.

Thanks

 

AMD has a lot to be proud of. Hypertransport, the memory on die their awesome temps too!!!! My desktop never went over 57C! the temps really improved after the Barton core. Their putting 3 different lines of cpus on one board too is great and saves money for the customer who wants to upgrade a cpu but not the board. The stability and the speed and performance as well are great. I love being able to have multiple apps open and click on others and have them react smoothly and with minimal latency. One thing like my extraverbility- I cant stand having to wait, having to click ona shortcut and then wondering if i did or not because the latency is so long, all of the AMD cpus i have used 2400+ thoroughbred, 3000+ Barton oem 3200+ winchester 939, 3500+ venice all are great cpus and AMD did great with teh winchester. The Barton is still good today but it didnt overclock good at all and I had an Asus motherboard that I oc'd it with. But the performance and stability is great on all of them and they are all still running smooth today! I can't say enough how it just makes sense to have efficiency rather than speed. I think that is going to be a major point in AMd's direction that 67W is better than using 110W and yet get better performance to boot. Obviously the SOI and DSL processes from AMD really work great in keeping temps down. AMD's customer service is good too, I called them askign a couple questions on a couple of occasions and they are very willing to talk. Some companies are a little more 'standoffish' even to customers and AMD's cooperative willingness as well was refreshing.

 

mrpsych
Glad you evaluated the situation and saw the error in what you were doing in staying off topic and inundating us with the superfluous psych spiel and attempt at banter. Your personal evaluation and preference for AMD is noteworthy.

My take on the current market is somewhat different. Intel has for the longest been part of the platforms that have successfully sold to the consumer market. With all the talk of overheating, I've still to see a stock Intel system boil water and/or fry eggs. Granted Intel runs warmer, but they are still part of viable PC systems that consumers buy in vast quantities. Given the long reign without serious competition has allowed Intel to become the industry leader as far as market share goes. Take into account that the edge that AMD enjoys is only minute in actual visible performance to comparable Intel units and you see why the general public hasn't been wooed away from "Intel Inside".

AMD is a good product, and it is the favorite of the custom market. Custom users can OC the AMD more readily and the on-die memory is superior to the Intel system. I'm happy to see a company competing with Intel on the R&D level and taking them to task. It's bringing about some excellent products for the consumer. Sophocles added an interesting sidenote in one of our conversations. It appears that the ongoing competition between Intel and AMD has led to the two effectively building a gap between their collective technological breakthroughs and the rest of the industry.

We sometimes forget that the average consumer doesn't care about the cutting edge technology, except that it gets the job done. So, if Intel builds a viable PC, they already have the market share and visibility. Just three years ago, AMD didn't enjoy the technological lead they do today (which isn't really a staggering one)when I purchased the Intel system I now own. Were I doing it today, I'd build my own AMD. (I have the skills and knowledge to put the system together and several college hours on usage and theory.) At the time, I had no parts inventory to work with and money was in short supply. So an "off the shelf" system was more budget friendly at the time. That's how most consumers purchase a PC, by how it fits into the budget; not everyone buys bragging rights. The custom builder is also a niche market as far as the consumer market is concerned as a whole.

If companies using AMD do a better job with sales, then there shouldn't be a problem with AMD getting a larger share in the PC market. It won't happen overnight and they're going against years of advertising indoctrination. If it's just left to niche markets, then AMD will suffer, though they have a viable product (at this time the better of the 2 top offerings on the market; AMD and Intel).

To sum it up, currently Intel systems are good, AMD has a slight edge, and I hope the competition continues as it brings us, the consumers, better equipment. Go AMD and Intel, I don't think either would be as good right now without the other pushing them.

 

It all hooks into the 'incentive program' by Intel and that is huge reason why. Read teh lawsuit and other articles. That is precisely a big factor in it.

 

How bout that Centrino Duo Core Anandtech was testing, which was only just released.

sammorris
The refurbishing project is on hold awaiting parts. I'll post the results when I get the parts installed. It'll be interesting to see how much it helps an older PC to pick up 600MHz and an extra GB (2GB total) of RAM. I'll bench the upgrade CPU difference with the old RAM installed and then put in the C2 matched performance RAM and do the benches again. That will give a more complete picture of the upgrade and which components added the most. I'll also do some real world testing with encoding to see how things work in the real world.

 

mrpsych

Old news. I've already read it. There is an interesting aspect to the situation though. Intel had already garnered the tremendous market share they enjoy before AMD became a decent competitor in the PC market. The 'incentive program' was already there, if not as expanded as the current one. There was a lot of advertising dollars shared by Intel and builders with "Intel Inside". I'm not saying Intel is innocent, but there is the appearance of AMD being the new kid on the block and crying foul because they can't compete at the same level. When I mention compete, I mean commercially, not technologically (we know AMD has a good product). AMD has been in business since about 1969. Only with their advent into PC sales with their competitive processors (over just the past few years) do we see the lawsuits. We heard little from AMD before they had a technological edge they could exploit in the marketplace. Just that realization shows AMD isn't being altruistic.

 

Hey guys.. Is the intel chips better, But they are being bottlenecked?
I dont remember by what but just asking...

 

AMD is the only one with on-die memory. That gives AMD the edge over Intel, which relied on sheer speed. To put that how it can be seen simply, AMD has a data packet in memory on the processor, it can access it there without going out into the PC mainboard and having to deal with the bus and controllers. That's quicker and more efficient with the AMD architecture. Intel, though faster has to go outside the processor to pick up its data packets. So, the AMD architecture is more efficient. With the new Duo Core Pentium M just released for laptop use, we see Intel making a noticable change in how they handle memory with their smart cache system. There's a lot of info in that Anandtech article Donald mentioned. The info has been available for a while, but this is one of the early practical applications.

 

did you read the lawsuit that was filed by AMD that i left the link for? HP turned down 1,000,000 free cpus. Gateway sttaed they were retaliated against in the loss of the money. This is a huge aspect becaues Intel has the Teir 1 companies not dealing with them but only to a ratio. AMD could cretae their own OEM and build their own computers that may be a reasonable way but contracts are what they are. itnel and hp partnered with the itanium and intel dindt give them the 25 million rebate due to their numbers of sold AMD cpus. if Teir 1 companies like Hp and Gateway cant have the backbone what do you expect any other smaller company to do? As you have noticed now you go to Alienware and you noticed they are now selling more Intel machines than AMD.

Hypertransport or lightning data transfer is for reducing bottlenecks due to the 'direct connect arhectecture'.

 

mrpsych
LOL

What did I say? I just left out the fancy names so it could be more easily understood. The words are technical sounding, but don't explain the task and why. Nice timing though, now we know the names given by AMD to the function.

I've read the articles and I know about the refused processors. I was just wondering where the courts were when AMD was trying to [bold]bribe[/bold] it's way into the market. Gateway is crying over spilled milk. Ever notice they were losing sales to Dell, even though the only differences appeared to be the Cow box. Both have Intel chipsets with Intel processors along with similar drives and configurations. Intel may have gone a bit too far with incentives, but the companies were going along until they thought they could get by without it. Gateway more or less thought they could make more selling AMDs as compared to savings from using the Intel CPUs. Turned out they were wrong and are now upset. Had Gateway made the bundle anticipated, I doubt we would be hearing from them. None of these companies are squeaky clean and some are hoping to benefit from court rulings. I'm sure AMD wants to see Intel hobbled and Gateway would love to see it's biggest competitor, Dell, get into trouble.

As I said, old news. It'll play out, but the concern here is with the equipment, not litigation and the psychological aspects of commerce and technology. If you want to continue that train of thought, take a hint and go to General Discussion.

 

I understtand your point. However, it is an aspect that when going through market that one cant get rid of. It is a crucial aspect to be able to block entry. However, one important statistic that would be the greatest to get a hold of would be this. What are the percentages to ratio of problems that were present for Gateway and Hp and Alienware? Now of course there are other variables to knock off, but if AMD has a better track record to ratio of processor and yet they still as well as being less expensive (huge point here, instead of needing several motherboards you can put 3 lines of cpus on one board that is huge money saving rather than Intel's chipset bound) why is it they dont offer it? As well, when you recieve fliers from hp and from others you dont see AMD's computers being listed even though they are being sold by them. These are huge aspects because many peole out there dont even know who Intel is. As Trump states 'branding' is important because Intel has done that, they have made their name known to people who dont even have a computer, it is huge. So wghen someone goes to get a computer they often go to where they have heard or know and hearing repeatedly Intel's blue man group and that ding at the end it is something you remember. That is why again after Watson had his affair witha student he went and made money where? Advertising, psychology is crucial to advertising and that is probably why Watson went htere after he had to resign even though he was the founder of behaviorism. You get into markets and you help shape markets via the use of psychology, the sound of the ting at the end of Intel's commercial is an conditioning principle. YOu create a 'need' and you market for it. Clock speed Intel usees that why? Because it is easy to logically look at and judge, 3.2ghz faster than 2.2ghz is logical and the uneducated or noncomputer literature person is more apt to believe that 3.2ghz will beat a 2.2ghz. That is why OEMs need to stay away from branding by processor becaues a computer is more than a processor, branding by performance as a whole is better because then the Teir 1's could step away from Intel brnading and sell so many more AMD cpus to the people that just dont care and want a good computer and dont need to be distracted by a piece from the whole. Personally, I think the chipest is more important if i ewre to look at the most important piece from teh whole. I upgraded with my barton 3000+ on via chipset, so i had the barton on i think it was K8something i forgot, then i went to KT800 same brand and there was a big difference in speed, that told me that chipset has a lot to do wtih it because the 3000+ was teh same and teh VIA chipset brand was but just another model.

The processor with the most advertising thta gets seen will often get chosen because of lack of information and popularity. Intel is a household name and therefore a lot of people root for it specifically because that which is popular gets sold even if it may not be faster and have problems. The market implications and in some instances explicit mediating between AMD and Intel put AMD as the underdog and not everybody goes for teh smaller guy. Look at Apple did their efforts really work? One article I read stated which i believe Apple sells lifestyle, but it works. AMD needs to do a better job advertising, i have seen their advertisement using Lance Armstropng on their site and it is good and backing up the Armstrong foundation is huge and is good. It is analogous- Lance Srong performer wins-AMD strong performer wins- it is about making the potential customers out there make links- so when they think of AMD they will think of Armstrong. When you think of Blue Man Group the idea of Intel comes to mind, if oyu hear the ding that is unique Intel comes to mind. That is why advertising is so important becaues you are creating associations- there are many associations to Lance Armstrong that one can bring to AMD- strong- (rumor or truth i am not sure but i was told that Lance Armstrong has a bigger heart in comparison to his body and that allows for more oxygen, well that is another parellel AMD does more work per clock cycle therefore is more efficient. You as well think AMD Cancer fighting, wow, if I buy an AMD machine I will help fight cancer? Cancer is the number one killer in AMerica today, dont think it is a coincidence that a corporation is going to fund foundations on it, why? Because so many Americans have had people in their lives undergo cancer, die from cancer, and survive it and they themselves, so when you are sponsoring Lance Armstrong a huge figure and you are funding cancer foundations this will bring great fruit to AMD if they can put this out there even more like putting it on Television for everyone to see. Now, of course a lot of this you levae implicit you dont want the p ublic to thikmn you are only backing up such for such but that is beside the point the point is they are helping. Gates, he has given a lot of money to charity and I think he has probably given much more than Jobbs so why is it that Apple is such good guys? Why dont Jobs or Apple give the same ratio of money to scholarships and the like? So, microsoft may have their faults but they have done good as well

Dell they make a crap load of money key point advertising. and you notice how Dell does it but you dotn explicitly. They orient their advertising for a specific population even their receipts state such. They repeatedly will use terms ' rock solid' this is by no mistake. Their commercials are adolescent and college student oriented for no coincidence. it is research into who is your customer base and then finding out their likes and the way and their lifestyle and then you market towards it, so then the people wont realize this and then say yeah that is what i want, they dont realize they were researched prior. YOu can have the best cpu in the galaxy if you dont hae marketing and you dotn have it out there for people to be aware of and you dont pooint it you are not going to sell it. It will be one of those stories of a great product that just didnt sell. It is by no coincidence that Dell is huge and rich other than their direct sales and Intel's incentive program to back up advertising it is the money maker. Why do you think that the majority of the advertising out there is so adolescent? You come up with a theme ande you repeat it and repeat it and then the person will come to believe it. If AMD decides to repeatedly make tv advertising like Intel and keep the association of 'cancer fighting and AMD' "icon Lance armstrong and AMD performance' they will increase. Informing the public that their technology is being used on Apple's cpu that Ibm and them partnered up this is all kinds of information that creates awareness and as well association to performance and excellence. People think IBM is a joke? no they have been awarded more patents than anyone else just a year ago. YOu can read the newsweek online article about samsung and how they got into the cell phone market, they stated which backs up my view-marketing constant marketing over and over and over again it seeps into people. You wont elitism you will have an elitist crowd and we know that elitists are not the amjority so therefore you can see the importance of advertising to the comman person and is why Helping fight cancer is huge, Nixon waged war on cancer, Cancer is the first number one killer today in our country next to heart disease. AMD can take care of two things at once, 1) help common issue in mortality-cancer 2) link to an icon a global icon an American dream of recovery, someone who has against the odds survived cancer and then to break a record of wins int he tour de france becaues America loves its sports and symbols of resilience, AMD has the ability to do this with their present marketing scheme and if they make it reach to every television set over and over and over again they will gain marketshare, if i were a billionaire and if i had control over AMD you bet your ass I woujdl have commercials on television running and yes I woujld have AMD signs at teh football stadium, yes i woujld have AMD signs at the baseball parks, yes I woujdl have a baseball or sports stadium named AMD Performance Sports Stadium-something of that nature. Think about it, the team wins superbowl or championship and it is AMD stadium they play at at home there is another great analogy-champiionship win famous never forgetting game played at AMD Stadium! The possibilies are endless, and yes AMD should definitely get their logo in sports arenas. Heck, buying a franchize would be a great idea a football team or baseball team and imagine what kind of greatness would happen if their team won championships? Link to Performance-To American's desires and hobbies-advertise over and over and over again, persistance persistance and persistance. Intel has done it and it has worked.

 

There a couple of Intels chips. You said that the light version of this program does not support 64bit processors so is this bencmark correct?

 

@Triock,

Very hard to swim in this sea called "Intel vs AMD"? Your question seems to have gotten lost in the pointless psycho-analysis of silicon.

If you really want to know the answer to that question, experience will show you the way. Right now, until Intel submits it's new upcoming architecture to the world, AMD is leading the way into the future. Granted, each chip has it's strong/weak points.

When it comes down to it, "real world" performance is what you need to look for when buying a CPU. What the CPU is capable of doing with your everyday tasks. "If" benchmarks conclude that AMD wipes Intel in all but two software titles, you still need to ask yourself...'am I using those two software titles?'

 

Morph416
Well put, but I did address Triock's question and in this thread I've stated that the real world differences most users will see are negligible. Most will agree on that if being objective. What we have is a problem with political and philosophical thoughts on the matter. We've been trying to get the thread back on topic, but a certain member wants to keep inserting his thoughts on philosophy and psychology. Difinitely not the pursuit of a professional in the field may I add.

mrpsychman
Read the amended title of this thread. It was made more specific in your honor. This was a tech thread in a tech forum. Most of the members have stated they would like you to take your spiel elsewhere because your sophomoric meanderings have little to do with the hardware.

 

I appreciate people's views as well as your own. Your views are good. I can see from my defect that as well it can be an asset too, and advertising I think is something that I probably could excel at, after all, I am a little too 'superflous-too much detail-exclude unecessary though", but that is works. Intel is changing their name they are droping their E of the pentium processor, i forget where I read it but Pentium is going to change I think to Core or somethign and the E is getting dropped.

 

http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=2663
Had you seen the opening page of the article Donald pointed out, you would have seen the change. The logo goes from "Intel" to "Intel, Leap Ahead". With the dual core you will see the "Intel Core Duo Inside" sticker. These companies, AMD and Intel, have been changing processor designations, so dropping the E should be nothing to merit a lot of interest. Of interest is the way Intel is starting to handle CPU architecture and memory.

 

Distorded
Now that you have the capture and screenshots down, give us the CPU-Z screenshots. If you're wondering what I'm talking about, go back and review Sophocles posts where he posted his data. Since you have the X2 3800+ some more of the comparable Intel processors would have made a better comparison. Here is an example of the stock 3800+ in comparison. Just goes to show how the benches can skew a perspective according to the examples used. I like to get in the higher and lower offerings to give an overall picture. My version of Sandra has the stock bench for your CPU.

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