Intel P4 vs AMD

erm, I can only find it going up to 3.36Ghz. 40% is impressive, but far short of 5G.

 

sorry :my bad: wrong page...

here it is:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2003/12/30/5_ghz_project/
they used liquid nitrogen to cool...

 

sammorris

I read that article at THG, you forgot to mention the fact that they used liquid Nitrogen. When a CPU is super cooled it not only fights heat but it decreases resistance and increases conductivity, things that won't work with standard cooling methods. I'm also betting that they used a CPU with a higher clock multiplier as well. also Tomshardware.com often use enigineer models which have higher standards than commericial model do. I'm not say that theonejrs' CPU can't be overclocked to 3.7 Ghz because of instablility, but it's a possible scenario along with heat and memory as causes. I've built enough systems to see either happen many times over.

 

Like he said. No benchmarks. Recent processors still blow it away for a lot less effort.

 

Sophocles,
He did mention liquid nitrogen further up. Any processor can do the -190 degree OC trick.

 

sammorris

Again... depending on how far he's trying to push it and how low those case temps are. Since the mobo is set to shut down at 70C, it's going to shut down when the CPU gets there. Since the case fan is moving air other than that being moved over the CPU for cooling and considering "air" isn't the best cooling solution, case temps will be less than CPU temps and the CPU is still going to shut down at 70C. Now if he has his case setting in a fridge or a very cold spot, then the ambient temps will have more effect.

It'll be interesting to see how far it actually goes, once he has the new fan installed. I still think he's going to have an unstable system at 3.7GHz with the Prescott. He can let us know when he gets it done and tested. We can speculate until pigs fly. LOL

 

Do the prescotts suffer from instability at high speeds as well as high temps then? I was only aware of the latter being a specific problem worse for that series...

 

The high temps are a symptom of the inadequate architecture of the Prescott CPU. The older Northwoods look like a better design to me. When the CPU is working efficiently, then the temps are lower. That's why the AMDs are running at lower temps than the Intels. The Intel Pentium Ms are now doing better though. Put simply, the Prescott is less efficient, so when pushed, it heats up more easily.

Sophocles or Donald could probably give you a better technical breakdown on design, efficiency, and resulting heat effects.

 

sammorris

All processors reach a point where they become unstable regardless of how much cooling is applied. When Intel first released the Prescott it was thought that they wouldn't max out until 5 Ghz but it wasn't long before they realized that even 4 ghz was pushing it which why Intel has moved to dual core. By super cooling a CPU more current can be applied to it without it burning out because of reduced leakage and because it also increases conductivity it can be pushed further than it was designed to go.

 

Well, does that mean the Prescott is a sieve? LOL

I got the CPU in from StarMicro. Just a couple of items of interest. I don't think they're new and they don't come in Intel packaging. The one I got had a bit of thermal compound left on it. I suspect these are "pulls". If I hadn't inspected it under light and magnification, I would have missed that one of the pins was bent. It wouldn't have fit the ZIF socket and an attempt to "nudge" it in would have ruined the CPU. I straightened it and all is well. I'm on it now and I'll be running tests later. I just think StarMicro should sneak a "Used" in there somewhere; interesting how they use OEM parts. They probably are, pulled off OEM systems. LOL

 

brobear

If it's an OEM then it won't have any thing but plastic bubble rap and a little formed plastic pack. Good thinking about checking for bent pins, I've had a few and I've always been lucky to bend them back just right. Fortunately the pins on the Northwood are still large by todays standards. If it's working then you're going to keep it because you know that if you send it back someone else is going to grab it. Northwood's are still collectible among over clockers. BTW, there are software over clocking methods that work with some systems.

 

The thermal pad came on the heat sink in the retail package if I'm not mistaken, not the CPU itself so you can be sure it is used. And the OEM's came in a tray of several, so when you wanted to purchase one, they just picked one out of the tray and wrapped it up in bubble wrap as Sophocles mentioned, which also could lead to a bent pin or two.

Let us know about your Sandra tests soon if you would.

 

Well, there's good new and there's bad news. The benches show that the 3.4 GHz Northwood outperforms the 3.6 GHz P4E. In fact, the system I have with the Corsair high performance memory out performs a lot of the newer systems. The bad news is that I forgot to buy some limes for the Bloody Caesars to enjoy while I do the tests. LOL Not to worry, good vodka and I have the ingredients in the bar. LOL I'm a happy camper on this one.

 

Brobear

Congratulations on your upgrade success and a toast as well, (raising my girly-man drink Disaronno Amaretto on the rocks with a splash of soda,) may your Sandra Benchmarks meet or exceed your wildest expectations…

The good news for me is that my wife gave the OK to build a new system from the ground up and now I’m hesitant as to which way to go, wait until Vista and the newer CPU’s come out or just jump in head first now.

 

Don't let the hormones get the best of you. Vista and the new high definition requirements along with the new hardware requirements are a lot to think about. Unless you just have to have a new system, wait till late in the year or next year to buy into a new system. If you buy in now, you could be seriously obsolete in a matter of months.

 

Hmm! Sounds good but wouldn't a girly-man drink be Shirley Temples? LOL


I've always had good luck with Corsair that's why I keep so much of it on hand. One of the main setbacks with most commercial systems are that they use lower quality, slower memory, that they buy cheaply in bulk. Why not, they don't let you have the freedom to tweak your system as you'd like because it's unlikely that it will fail at default speeds.

Enjoy the added speed, you've earned it.

 

Sophocles
The only thing I can say is that Intel made a huge mess up when they went with Prescott over Northwood. I did the benches and the 3.4 Northwood does better than the 3.6GHz P4E. It looks like Intel did a giant step backwards. The only thing I can think is that the later CPUs must have been cheaper to produce.

 

brobear

The first P4 extreme edition was a Northwood. All that the Prescott did was add SSE3 and support for DDR2 which has been a real red herring for Intel because AMD's using standard DDR outrun them. The Prescott's' had longer pipes and excessive current leak which caused them run hotter. I've always wondered why Intel didn't port the North to the 90 nm core. that would have allowed for it to exceed 4 Ghz using less current.

 

Toshiba, IBM and Sony has now announced that the Cell Processors will be introduced to PC's, and a bunch technology. (Also in the ps3)

Sorry to be off topic, but what do you guys\girls think about this?
Can you give your oppinions? How do you think they will do? And how do you think this cell processor is going to compete against AMD and INTEL
You don't have to answer if you dont want to.

[bold]Incase you dont know about the cell processor.[/bold]
Ill use the ps3 as an example.
Its a processor with 7 built in SPE's(SPU)
Each SPE (including the core) runs at 3.2ghz
The XDR ram(256mb) runs at 3.2GHZ.

Apperently the first computer on market with the cell is
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3591350722.html
This will have the XDR ram aswell.

I got my resources from searching Cell processor on google news.
http://www-1.ibm.com/businesscenter...featurearticle/gcl_xmlid/8649/nav_id/emerging
From google search

Pls correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

ScubaBud
Well i most likely dont know as much about computers as you do, but i think you should wait for Windows Vista to come out for 3 main reasons.
1)XDR memory. (Comming out this year, 256mb runs at 3.2ghz and will be fastest memory stick on the market)
2)Pentium 5 is comming soon apperently from the articles I have read from google.
According to this website.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11785
[bold](Although this article is dated... it can still be usefull)[/bold]
-P5 will probably hit this year
-The P5 will apperently run at 5GHZ to 7GHZ..[bold]FAST[/bold]
3)New Gpu's on the market this comming April
The Geforce 71 and 8 line.

Although you probably know more than me, i thaught i can give my oppions atleast.