Intel vs. AMD

Sam,

All the ones I've seen have an alligator clip on the end, and you do clip it to the case. It has nothing to do with the mains ground at all. It's an isolation thing where any static electricity is dissipated into the case rather than discharging into a component. The ground for the MB to the case is through the MB screws! When wearing the wrist strap there is no static electricity at all as there's no build up to begin with!

Russ

 

PacMan777,

I agree with you 100%! That's why I was so surprised when this information came from the manager of Arctic Silver, Colin! At first I thought I misunderstood him, but his exact words were: "actually I don't recommend using Arctic Silver 5 for CPU coolers" and went on to explain about people calling up and complaining that the AS5 had damaged their MB. Nice that they blame Arctic Silver instead of their "idiot self" for not using the product properly.

I did some extensive testing between the AS5 and the Ceramique about 6-7 months ago on a P-4 Prescot and my D-940 using a Zalman 9500, the Arctic Freezer Pro and a Freezer 4 and the AS5 worked better, but by a very small margin. True, it was an awful lot of work but I wanted the answers and I had the time. I've been using it ever since as it's easy to use and you can't hurt anything if you use too much. Colin told me to ignore all the tips on applying it that you find on the net and to just put a gob of it on the center of the CPU and mount the cooler. He also said not to apply any to the cooler itself.

Best Regards,
Russ

 

i would of imagined it being the other way around. as the cpu is more isolated and the chipsets are not.

 

marsey99,

Apparently not as I just looked at the chipset on a spare MB I have and there are no connections showing around the chipset chips, they are all below the board section of the chip. I guess it would depend on how much you use. I've been using Arctic Silver for years and have never had a problem. Then again I don't apply it like toothpaste either. I do it in the accepted manner. I also see that some CPU sockets have all sorts of connections surrounding it so I guess if you are an idiot and go way overboard, you can hurt something! You know the mentality. If a little is good, then a lot is better! LOL!

Best Regards,
Russ

 

yep that is a common thought process.

i guess the advice you were given is more of a way to make the aplication as uncomplicated (read idiot proof, not aimed at you dont get me wrong) as possible.

on mine it has them on the top around the nb chip itself. not a good picture (blame my phone) but you can just about see them.

 

Theonejrs
How do you explain your findings in relation to the specifications Arctic Silver posts for the products?

 

They're odd, but specs are specs, we all know real experience often differs. Such as Thermaltake's range of fans that all happen to produce the same noise level, 21dB. Oh wait, mine's 36, how did that happen?

 

The only problem is that most people who have used both products notice similarities between the specs and the performance of the products. Theonejrs' findings are opposed to what everyone else is getting. The ceramique is safer, but it's not the better conductor.

 

PacMan777,

Very simple! The particle size is smaller so there's more particles for a given area, more tightly packed in the same amount of space. While the heat transfer of the particles is lower, the higher density because of the smaller particles transfers almost as much heat as the AS5.

That's what Arctic Silver used to say on their site!

Best Regards,
Russ

 

Yes, but you're dealing with a greater conduction factor of over 30%. It just doesn't seem to work out for most people the way you claim. If ceramique was that good, why aren't most of the performance builders using it instead of the Arctic Silver 5?

 

PacMan777,

I learned from experience that the directions that most people use that they get on the internet are wrong. Some show the use of a plastic bag to spread it around around on both the heat sink and CPU are wrong as it creates air pockets. By experimenting, I discovered that I do it the same way Colin told me to. Just put a big gob of it on the CPU, apply AS5 to the heat sink and wipe it all off with a paper towel and stick it down. Wipe off the excess Ceramique that will squish out between the heat sink and the CPU and you're done The AS5 on the heat sink is to fill in all the tiny imperfections in the surface. Colin called it "dressing the heat sink"! Just doing that alone lowers the temps a couple of degrees. Using a good sized gob of the Ceramique insures that there are no air pockets whatsoever. In this case, more is better! A bit messy and sticky, but it works! Arctic's findings agree with mine as well, according to Colin. He says that the difference is about 2C if done this way!

My computer has been on over 6 hours and is idling at 30-31C with a MB temp of 32-33C in a 25C room. I'm OC'd to 3.71GHz with an Arctic Freezer 7 Pro. It will hit about 42C while encoding with RB/CCE. Running OCCT for 12 hours will get it up to 48C. AS5 would probably drop that about 2C after it had a while to cure. As I pointed out when I did the testing, a lot depends on the airflow of the case. I'm sure that the fan that I added to the side cover also helps keep the temps lower too. It runs very cool for a Presler overclocked 500MHz!

Best Regards
Russ

 

From the same guy who says AS5 isn't for CPUs. Is that before or after a few hundred hours of curing? The conduction is over 1/3 better for the AS5, irregardless of "molecular fitting" of the ceramique. The figures are from the measurements of a given area of the material. Naturally Arctic Silver is going to say how a product is good. They promote the AS5 as well as the ceramique. As I said before, my findings are more in line with what the specs indicate for the 2 products. Has anyone else around here had similar findings to yours? You have a habit of coming up with theories and findings that go against physics and technical reviews of hardware as supplied by sites such as Tomshardware, Anandtech and PC World just to name a few, not to mention some of the more respected builders here at AD. Then you tenaciously defend those findings with no support other than what someone said.

To do the tests right you would have to have identical test boards running under identical conditions with the only difference being the thermal compound. Then you would have a fair chance of getting decent test comparisons. You're trying to sound scientific without even following sound test procedures.

 

i had some issues with my last mobo and my x-fi card, i found that setting it to 128 fixxed the issues i was having with it.

edit

silver and ceramique sux. artic mx-1 ftw lol

edit 2

pacman i think he used the same mobo, same cpu and same cooler so the only variable was the paste as im sure his ac kept the room temp the same.

 

PacMan,
baltekmi is right I did all the testing on 2 motherboards. 1 set of tests for the P5P800SE and 1 set for the P4P800SE with both the Freezer 7 pro on the P5P and the 9500 and the Freezer 4 on the P4P. I'm not saying that the science is 100% exact as I just didn't have the resources to have 2 of each motherboard and set-up. This was in no way a scientific test and wasn't claimed to be. I was able to control the ambient temp and the cases used were identical on both machines. All this time and testing was strictly for my own personal satisfaction and was posted on DVD Hounds, on a "this is what I got with these particular set-ups" basis. I wasn't making any claims, but just reporting the results I got in these tests. If I was doing extreme overclocking to the max, I would absolutely use the AS5. For all of the applications I've used the Ceramique for, the results have been very good and I do recommend it!

Funny thing, Colin from Arctic Silver just called me a few minutes ago and he agrees that there is a couple of degrees difference between the AS5 and the Ceramique if applied properly and if you are not overclocking to the max. I figure he should know, perhaps better than anyone as he manages the company and should know what he is talking about. He is sending me 2 tubes of AS5 as a gift for my time and feedback. I will be using the Ceramique applied as described in my previous post on my E4300/P5N-E build within the next 2 weeks and I'm sure that at my target speed of 3.0, the results will be as Good as Gina's if not better as her's had a stock Intel cooler while mine will have an Arctic Freezer Pro! I have no desire or need to go faster with it. A 66.67% speed improvement is more than enough for me and my needs and I don't like to stress everything out to the max anyway.

No! Colin said that he "doesn't recommend it for CPU coolers"!

Sincerely,
Russ

 

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the same guy who says AS5 isn't for CPUs.
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No! Colin said that he "doesn't recommend it for CPU coolers"!

LOL I think if I said cold you'd say hot. LOL Being as how the thermal compound goes between the CPU and CPU cooler, what is the difference, AS5 not for CPUs and not for CPU coolers?

As for Arctic Silver, I'm sure they like having happy customers. Most of their customers are, except those not bright enough to keep conductive materials out of the circuits. However, I doubt them really needing your, my, or our collective home studies. They have their own R&D that can handle the job much better than we can.

We're basically saying the same thing, the only difference is I'm saying a person more readily sees improvements from the AS5 sooner. The website still says pretty much what you said earlier, only they added time factors, which coincide with the quicker curing I attributed to the AS5 earlier. You could have easily quoted the Arctic Silver website. Your findings add nothing to what is already there. You'll have to excuse me if I don't go along with your phone pal Colin. I'll continue to use AS5 for CPU/FHS installations.

Arctic Silver 5 is definitely The New Reference
I tend to agree with the AS website. LOL

 

if as5 (or the ceramique, take your pick) is the best, why do they put mx-1 on their own premium range coolers?

 

Two separate shipments. The Thermaltake Toughpower arrived today.

It is now in the system and running smooth. Pretty quiet and very nice quality

I'm expecting my HDD, Core 2 Duo and 8800GTX tomorrow!!!!

 

Estuansis,

those components are going to make you a very nice n fast rig. I am curious tho as to why you chose to go with DDR2 667 ram over DDR2 800.

 

i think you may have two completely separate companies confused as being the same...

for the thermal compounds, it's Arctic Silver Inc....a United States based company here in California...as for the coolers, it's Arctic Cooling Company, a Swiss based company that has no affiliates with Arctic Silver Inc.

from what i know about AS, they ONLY produce thermal compounds and the like (unless they have recently released heatsink/coolers that i am not aware of), but Arctic Cooling makes HSF (ie. Freezer Pro, Freezer 7, Accelero for vid. cards, fans, cases, etc.) along with their own brand of thermal compound.

2 different companies, 2 different products.

docTY

p.s. much like Pacman, i prefer the newest Zalman ZM-STG1, it's much easier to apply than AS-5 and i have found it performs just as good upon full load with an easier application procedure (i personally use the brush to apply on both the cpu and the heatsink)