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Is HD-DVD on life support?

Discussion in 'HD DVD discussion' started by BAMFstang, Jan 7, 2008.

  1. BAMFstang

    BAMFstang Member

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    Actually HD-DVD has already dropped prices pretty low given the short life of the formats. They sold a ton of players over the holidays at entry level pricing, about $100. The market penetration is there.

    I can routinely find a HD-DVD player for under $200 with free movies to even further make it an affordable purchase.

    The cheapest blu ray player I've seen is about $300 and doesn't even support the latest firmware. If you want one that does add at least another $100 to the cost of the player.

    Just seems kinda crazy to me. It all boils down to greed and nothing else.

    If Blu-Ray does indeed win, expect to pay higher prices and have crippled players.

    Hd-DVD has combo discs. HD on 1 side, SD on the other. You can actually use the disc in a standard player if you are in your bedroom, over a friends etc. Blu Ray has not and will not offer that option because they want to sell 2 discs rather than one. You always have the option of buying a BLu Ray player for every room that you have SD players
     
  2. OreoMini

    OreoMini Guest

    WOW... the first guy to say " ... not to start a flame war or anything..." in my opinion after that people have just been arguing omg lets keep it down
     
  3. varnull

    varnull Guest

    I can't believe that people think warners are actually big players in a global sense.. I'm waiting to see which way the bollywood studios go.. I will put money on it being a region free format.

    Let China kick in with the $100 hd players and the $10 films, and watch sony and warner change track pretty quick.

    I remember a fair few years ago sony stating pretty clearly in press releases how they were going to migrate their entire media catalog onto minidisk and umd.. At the moment warners are just trying to convince shareholders they are on a winner with the increased orders from distributors.. note.. not actual shop sales.. caused by the price reduction and seasonal buying of the ps3.
    We sell ps3 games and dvd's.. but have never yet been asked for a b/r film title.
     
  4. misfit410

    misfit410 Member

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    I don't recall discussing success, I recall disputing the fact that someone is trying to claim HD-DVD is inferior to Blu-Ray. We are seeing flawless 1080P with lossless audio on 30G discs, I don't see where space comes into play any further. I mean even a 2.5 hour movie like Troy on HD-DVD is where it SHOULD be. For the most part up until this point Blu-Ray picture quality has lagged behind HD-DVD, at best it's finally MATCHED, but in every other department Blu-Ray falls behind severely.

    this post sums it's up pretty well from the CES showfloor

    HD-DVD did all the amazing things it does (Dual Stream Decoding, Even the online features)stock on every player, it's universal and can be fully supported across the board. With Blu-Ray PS3 is the only system that is going to benefit from the ability of upgrades. the Movie industry is not going to focus on a gaming console and screw the people who purchased standalone players (mainly because PS3 is failing to impress with system sales as both a gaming console and a Blu-Ray player). You will get upgrades, yay..what does that have to do with the fact that Blu-Ray is currently inferior to HD-DVD? that it currently stands as nothing more than a Standard DVD player that happens to play in 1080p while HD-DVD stands as a true evolution with new features that are actually worthy of exploring? I'll be happy that I gave up my picture in picture and fantastic extras when I have my godzilla ringdown.

    This was a dispute against someone calling HD-DVD inferior in the thread not a relation to the topic, yes HD-DVD is on life support I don't even think it's a dispute.. it's just sad because it's the one that deserves not to be, cheaper with more features and identicle quality..

    The fact I finally had a full retail product that was region free was a godsend.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  5. Ryu77

    Ryu77 Regular member

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    Wow... This thread is certainly getting heated. I am guessing that most of the people putting blu-ray down own a XBOX 360? (joke ;-))

    Either way when you guys are quoting a quote from a quote from a quote... It's almost like my Aunties, Cousin, Brothers, Neighbors Dog said so.... :)

    Anyway, I'm just stoking the fire here... lol!

    As far as the "floating menu" goes. I know blu-ray offers that. Whether it is a new addition or not I am not sure but the fact is that it is there.

    Also, at the end of the day PS3 units and games MUST be taken into the equation here as we are talking about which MEDIA format will win, not which MOVIE format will win.

    Now I'm about to quote... Well, at least it's only one person!...

    [​IMG]
    Source=Wikipedia,Link= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_high_definition_optical_disc_formats

    Also, what do you mean by region free format? That doesn't apply to the media type being used that is technology that refers to where the disc (in the World) can be played.

    As far as video codec support goes according to Wiki once again, it clearly states that both formats have exactly the same video codec support. Please refer to the above link.

    Now here's the sales data...

    [​IMG]
    Also sourced from the above link at Wikipedia.

    I think the writing is on the wall. I don't like to say this in fear of starting even more flames, but I predicted blu-ray to win from the start mainly because of Sony's strong marketing power. Although it is not technically over, HD-DVD have a lot of ground to make up if they hope to stay in the game.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  6. goodswipe

    goodswipe Guest

    Region free format, meaning that a disk can be played in any HD-DVD player that comes from any country/region. Blu-Ray doesn't offer that feature. Also, HD-DVD is in my opinion, way ahead of Blu-Ray as far as technology is concerned. I suggest that before you come into this thread and start more Blu-Ray propaganda, you first have an idea of what your talking about.
     
  7. eatsushi

    eatsushi Regular member

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    Bollywood has already chosen a high-def format. It's HD VMD:

    http://www.nmeinc.com/
    http://www.nmeinc.com/Library.aspx

    China has a few competing high-def formats:

    CH-DVD (China High Definition DVD)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CH-DVD

    EVD (Enhanced Versatile Disc)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Versatile_Disc

    FVD (Forward Versatile DIsc)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_Versatile_Disc
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  8. Ryu77

    Ryu77 Regular member

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    Excuse me goodswipe but that's exactly what I am talking about. Do you need to get so heated and be so confronting? It wasn't even your post that I quoted. I obviously misunderstood him. I don't see how region encoding has much of an impact. I think I posted enough material to show that I DO KNOW what I am talking about. If you read my post with an open mind like I had when I was posting it, you would see that I just stated facts and clearly quoted references. I didn't say that HD-DVD was inferior or dead. I guess I should have expected this sort of response posting in a HD-DVD thread. Can we be a little more political about the words we choose? Are we adults or little kids?

    If you could also include some facts to substantiate your opinion I would happily take that in with an open mind. If in this format war I saw that HD-DVD was in a dominant market position, as a Home Theater enthusiast isn't it obvious that I would support that format? I can tell you right now, I didn't buy all my Home Theater equipment to go without HD movies. I think the best thing that we can do now is ride this out and see what happens in the end.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  9. laddyboy

    laddyboy Regular member

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    Region coding comes into play when a DVD is released in one part of the world and not another. There are several titles being released in Europe on HD-DVD that are only available in BD here in the U.S. There are also some HD-DVD titles being released earlier in Europe than the U.S. These Euro-disks are playable in any HD-DVD player because there is no region protection. BDs have region coding so out of region disks won't play in BD players.
     
  10. Mik3h

    Mik3h Regular member

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    Seems like the end result of this war is going to be similar to ye old Betamax vs. VHS.

    I think I began to refuse to support Sony after the whole rootkit episode. Sony just seem to be getting worse and worse.
     
  11. CaLiMaCk

    CaLiMaCk Member

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    a little bypassable rootkit from sony stops you from supporting their products, yet all the injustices MS have took part in/laws they have broken/lives, companies they have ruined doesnt stop you from supporting their design flawed console(they have admitted this themselves). i love that logic!

    360 is a good console if you are american, but being a PC gamer i just cant support MS after all the horrible things they have done and plan to do. i cant believe more people dont know about their vista roadmap, you wont be able to upgrade jack without their horrible vista OS. im sticking with my pirated XP for as long as i possibly can!
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  12. misfit410

    misfit410 Member

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    What does the Xbox 360 have to do with disliking a more expensive and inferior format?

    I personally watch mostly digital video from a server and don't mess with discs much. I chose HD-DVD for one reason only... I was about to buy and upscaling DVD player for $100, when I came across the HD-A2 for $98.. I get upscaling AND HD-DVD for the same price? hells yes... after using it a lot, as well as experiencing Blu-Ray via friends I honestly am so happy I went the route I did..and in the end if it does fail at worse I paid less money for an amazing upscaling player that happens to play HD-DVD's... but what makes me sad is.. this thing was a true evolution, it did new and exciting things.. Blu-Ray does nothing compelling outside of watching a movie in high Def.

    I can't say I want a PS3 because of the following

    1) using a gaming console to push a movie format is lame
    2) Seeing nintendos new controller and running home real fast to rip it off poorly last minute is twice as lame
    3) I like good games, PS3 has none.. I'm safe..

    PC is also my format of choice, are you aware MS loses money when you buy an Xbox? so how would pirating XP be any different on a support scale?


    Now mind you my region coding comment was stating what is more attractive to a consumer, having a wife who comes from China makes it attractive to me. Especially considering CH-DVD is china's official HD disc format, that is a hell of a market to be HD exclusive and had not been tapped yet.

    If it fails, I'll just pick up all my HD movies from China when I visit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  13. goodswipe

    goodswipe Guest

    LOL, how many times do you have to re-read your post and edit it? Include some facts to back up my opinion? What, the fact that HD-DVD is by far more advanced then Blu-Ray as far as technology goes? Ok, BD profile 1.1 was released to try and keep up with HD-DVD's ever evolving technology. Oh wait, you have an older player that can't update via an ethernet port? Sorry you must purchase a newer player for that support. PIP, oh wait, Blu-Ray doesn't support that either. I can go on more but, I think you get the idea. Here is a something you should read, if you haven't already.
    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12746915&postcount=1

    Those statements were made by a Blu-Ray backer and compare the two formats perfectly as far as the technology side goes.
     
  14. chorros

    chorros Member

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    why can't they make hd players that boot up faster instead of forcing users to go make a sandwich, make popcorn and then wait another few minutes to start??

    From what I've been reading on these forums, it seems that blu-ray players have longer load times after powering on than with hd dvd players. But it sucks to be in a Catch 22 situation: either go with a regular dvd player without any load times but have sucky quality or go with an hd player with super high-end quality but have to wait long load times
     
  15. goodswipe

    goodswipe Guest

    Due to the fact that there basically a computer. They contain a hard drive, an OS, and memory. All that stuff needs to load up in order for the player to start working.
     
  16. Ryu77

    Ryu77 Regular member

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    Goodswipe, I am going to say this at the risk of being banned. You are a tool! I tried to be nice and diplomatic with my post. I re-edited a few times because I was worried that your baby mind might take offence. Now I don't care about that anymore.

    Hey, weren't you the one that said Sony only makes 720p LCD's in this thread http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/609881

    So who really doesn't know what they are talking about? Why didn't you have something to say there? Instead you come here, reply to a post that wasn't even quoted from your post and get all heated and have a go at me. You don't even know who you're talking to.

    I suggest you take a chill pill calm down and start acting like a man. Can I ask, how old are you?

    I mean at the end of the day, the original thread is "Is HD on life support?" My post attempted to get back to that theme. It really doesn't matter about opinions of which format is better. The only thing that really matters to THIS thread is cold hard sales facts.
     
  17. CaLiMaCk

    CaLiMaCk Member

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    i wasnt posting to you i was posting to the guy above me, but i will answer you anyways.

    more expensive and inferior? maybe more expensive but i looked in the ads and all i saw was 30$ hd dvd movies and 25$ blu ray movies, because hd dvd has the dvd version on one side and high def movie on the other, consumers dont know this though and they think its actually the more expensive format. inferior, it definitely is not, they already are using 50gigs so the uncompressed sound, etc they want to put on has the space to fit. maybe not a lot of people will use the uncompressed sound but then again not a lot of people use the online features of hd dvd either, which is the only advantage at this point they have in terms of inferiority, yet this is coming to blu ray anyways in the next update. true old blu ray owners wont be able to take advantage of them, but early adopters always get screwed, and what matters is the most popular high def player on the market(ps3) is updatable and this has been shown recently.

    its going to be harder for hd dvd fix the space issue than it is for blu ray to fix the profile. 3 layer hd dvd movies with a dvd on the other side = major problems. 2 seperate discs = not cost effective. oh what am i bothering with you for you still think blu ray doesnt use vc 1 dont you? where have you been the past year or so? i want high def picture and next gen sound too, the online features can wait.

    i just bought a ps3, i can upconvert dvds and play the winning format, then again i got a big discount on it. oh and contrary to your idiotic belief it does have games, 3 just recently came out, ratchet, UT3, and drakes which has a 90% gamerankings average. before that came warhawk and heavenly sword, etc. not even talking about the multiplats, i just got COD4 and its amazing and its nice that its the superior version(according to the devs) as well. im glad i waited a year, before this fall ps3 wasnt appealing to me at all but now i cant find enough money to play all the good games.

    1. using a console to push a overpriced online service is not lame? now they are trying to charge us pc owners for that crap, for what to play the crap game shadowrun with 360 owners? no thanks. i can go on with how much MS is trying to force down our throats but i wont bother.

    2. and MS ripping off basically everthing sony did is not lame? HDMI is a gimmick, they add it not too long later, you will not need anymore than 20gb for your 360 ever, then comes the elite and the overpriced first party HDDs. MS says 1080p is a gimmick, again they added this in an update, need i say more?

    3. i already disproved this above.

    do you know no company except nintendo makes profit on their console? nintendo even made money on gamecube, amazing considering what a horrible failure it was. MS was making money for a while on 360, a very short while, until RROD warranties hit, they had to drop 360 price, etc. they dont know how to make the division profitable and it has never been profitable for more than a few months in the past 6 years or so and lost record money for them. also they dont expect the division to get on its feet for another 2-3 years, MS just dont know how to run a business if they cant monopolize it, they have tried but thankfully nintendo handed them their ass and sony is on it's way up again.

    just because they arent making money on it doesnt mean you arent supporting them, considering they rape you on add ons(wifi, HDD, faceplates, themes, etc, etc, etc) and they do make money on software, where all console makers make money. considering their strong software sales i find it appalling they cant keep the division on its legs but again, they dont know how to run a gaming business and considering recent departures of bioware, bungie and bizarre and the closing of fasa they also dont know how to keep developers happy.

    thats nice about your wife from china and all, but china is not a major market yet, and it really wont help hd dvd, cus its their own format and its all pirated to hell anyways. in the end you would just be sucking more sales away from hd dvd if you got your movies from china. also i heard the blu ray association is working with chinese officials to try to get china some input on the format, which is very appealing to them, they would love to have a steak in the winning format especially after the recent warner move.
     
  18. misfit410

    misfit410 Member

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    Firstly COD4 is a PC franchise that is vastly superior on the PC

    "1. using a console to push a overpriced online service is not lame? now they are trying to charge us pc owners for that crap, for what to play the crap game shadowrun with 360 owners? no thanks. i can go on with how much MS is trying to force down our throats but i wont bother. "

    Uhm, Games for Windows is a failure, heard of a little thing called steam where you can buy any game and have it at your fingertips? instantly join a game or chat with friends in the best only setup that exists all for free? Shadowrun and Halo2 are the only games for it, and PC games bought into Neither, GFW is a flop, Steam killed it.

    "2. and MS ripping off basically everthing sony did is not lame? HDMI is a gimmick, they add it not too long later, you will not need anymore than 20gb for your 360 ever, then comes the elite and the overpriced first party HDDs. MS says 1080p is a gimmick, again they added this in an update, need i say more? "

    Neither were mainstream when the 360 launched, had they another year to work things out I am sure things would have been different.. adding support to industry standards does not compare to stealing new technology the second you see it. To my knowledge PS3 did not pioneer 1080p nor HDMI.

    "3. i already disproved this above.

    do you know no company except nintendo makes profit on their console? nintendo even made money on gamecube, amazing considering what a horrible failure it was. MS was making money for a while on 360, a very short while, until RROD warranties hit, they had to drop 360 price, etc. they dont know how to make the division profitable and it has never been profitable for more than a few months in the past 6 years or so and lost record money for them. also they dont expect the division to get on its feet for another 2-3 years, MS just dont know how to run a business if they cant monopolize it, they have tried but thankfully nintendo handed them their ass and sony is on it's way up again. "

    I do know this except the lie at the end where you claim Sony is on the way up again. It's sales flatlined yet again, yes the PS3 is higher at this point in its life than the 360 was but in looking at the same data you have to take into consideration the huge jump 360 got after it's first year.. how can you claim PS3 is even competing because of that data because then you are ignoring the FACT that 360 is outselling PS3 EVERY month since the PS3 was released, not once did the PS3 outsell the Xbox 360 in any region except Japan.

    The PS2 is outselling the PS3 in ever region currently, for the majority of the year the gameboy advance and gamecube were still outselling the PS3. It is a failure, because it is losing the most money of all the consoles, it costs by a large margin the most to develope for and the sales of software have remained so abysmal that third parties are really hesitant to support it in any exclusive format without a huge payout from Sony for them to do so.

    Glad COD4 came out decent on the system but you have to also acknowledge it was the first multiplatform game on the system that was not by far the worst version. How are you enjoying the almost unplayable Orange box?


    China is a very big market actually, the Chinese Movie industry is becoming the worlds biggest outside of our own, Korea who also has HD as the standard is also growing to be very strong(if you have not sat down and enjoyed a Chan-wook Park film you are missing out).

    I mean I am realistic, just stating the US is not the only market that determines the life of a product, and it's not uncommon for Europe or Asia to accept a whole other standard than we do here. So it is not out of the question that US will be Blu-Ray and Asia will be HD-DVD(in which that region free status will be handy for those of us with HD-DVD players in that we can play them from anywhere on earth). I think things look grim and it's not going to be easy for Toshiba but they do still stand a chance.

    Word is Microsoft has signed a lot of deal with Disney, MGM, CBS, NBC etc for Live marketplace downloads..In the breifing MD commented they will not stop backing HD-DVD until Toshiba is completely out of business..could be a sign of them taking their support role more seriously and it COULD (mind you it's only stating would COULD be happening)result in shifting things slightly.

    I think Movie companies are complete babies, Call of Duty 4 is a good example of that..a Company like activision makes something as complex as a game, then they have to make a version for 3-4 different platforms that all require seperate teams and funding, they even did a DS version.. did they complain about it? no.. it's more money for them!!.. Yet we stand behind these movie studios when they act like it's so horrible to have to COPY to another disc format? It's beyond me, the way I saw it ending up was hydbrid players becoming the norm and studios just pressing the one that has the best feature set(oh wait, that's HD-DVD)

    but back to the Chinese two things to know about them
    1) they try to cut out foreign movies for the most part, they want their own movie market, they want Chinese people to buy Chinese movies, so the government dictates what American movies can come into the country, how many and when. If a big Chinese movie is going to be playing all US releases that week will be restricted from being shown for at least a month.

    2) dirty secret, they have a real chip on their shoulder when it comes to the Japanese, they take very seriously the fact that Japan wants to sweet under the rug past war crimes and the Chinese really hold it against them. CH-DVD is China's own format, it is not made by Toshiba but by Chinese Companies.. it is compatible with HD-DVD players but is it's own format for the most part(has more copy protection to help fight the piracy in china). They would not be allowed to do this with Blu-Ray , they would be beholden to Sony and that is not going to happen.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2008
  19. Ryu77

    Ryu77 Regular member

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    Hey, come on guys. Let's all be friends... :)

    The original post simply asked is HD-DVD on life support? The simple answer is yes. That doesn't mean it is dead. If you think about the meaning of the term "life support", that means somebody is in critical condition but still has some hope of reviving.

    Ever since the second post (only second to the original post) this has become a flame war. My post attempted to revert back to market position and sales facts which also resulted in someone taking it personal and flaming back at me. Please can everyone chill a little. Everyone is right here. The great thing about this World is that we are all different and as such we will all have different opinions. Can't we just accept that fact and agree to disagree?
     
  20. goodswipe

    goodswipe Guest

    LMAO, wow, sorry to make you cry man! First off, I never said that ALL Sony LCD's output at 720p, I was referring to that particular model newb. How bout you go read my post again in that thread 100 times like you did your past post. If you care to continue on crying like a little kid pm me instead of dragging this on here. I will be more then happy to discuss things with you there.
     

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