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Lossless conversion of .mkv

Discussion in 'Blu-ray players' started by wigwig7, Feb 5, 2008.

  1. wigwig7

    wigwig7 Member

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    Hi guys, probably heard this over and over and probably over another thousand times however my question is a little different...
    I have a movie which is in HD format (1080p) and is in the form of an mkv file type. It has a file size of 8.2GB approx. I don't have a HD-Player however I have a Pioneer DVD player which supports 1080P and has an HDMI cable but can't read Blu-Ray or HD format DVD's. My player can read XVID DIVX AVI all MPG formats and DVD vob files obviously but not mp4 or mkv. So what I'm after is how to go about converting this file to one of the above formats without loosing the HD quality? This file size is obviously too big for DVD5 so I have some Dual layers handy. I know with ImToo MPEG Encoder you can choose the format to convert to and the frame rates and aspect ratio's etc... Atm with ImToo you can convert to PS3 format (mp4) in HD formats but they haven't got a new version with the inclusion of mkv as one of the video formats. So I hope you can understand where I'm coming from and that someone can enlighten me. Thanks for your help if theres anything you want to ask feel free. Thanks guys wigwig
     
  2. wigwig7

    wigwig7 Member

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    Sorry to double post but does anyone have any idea's?
     
  3. gamename

    gamename Regular member

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    well i was using my pc to play them on my tv to start out with. then the kids kept messing it up so i stopped that, and started burning them to DL media using convertxtodvd.i read where one person was using windows movie maker to burn. then play them on his xbox. i dont know if this works because im running windows xp. u need vista premium or ultimate to have the hd movie maker.sorry i couldnt be more help. maybe someone will come out with software that offers more options in the near future. i sure hope so. something else i would like to see is software that will let u rip an hd or blu-ray movie and then burn it to a DL disc using mpeg4 (main movie only). mpeg4 is alot more effcient than mpeg2. i also have a upconvert dvd player that plays mpeg2 and mpeg4. i would really like to see what that would look like.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2008
  4. wigwig7

    wigwig7 Member

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    When you burn to DL do you notice any quality lost during the conversion. Because to me if my mkv file is under the size of the DL disk (file is 8.2GB and DL capacity is 8.5) then being a smaller file size I would think there would be no quality lost?
     
  5. gamename

    gamename Regular member

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    it does seem to lose a little quality, but if u play it on a good upconvert player its really hard to notice. let me give u one more option. after you convert the file, use dvdrebuilder and cce to compress to a dvd5. doing it this way will save u alot of money and the video and audio is pretty good. let me put it this way, it will look alot better than the traditional avi conversion. in fact most of these look as good as the original dvd (standard def) i purchased. not bad for .20 cents a piece.
     
  6. wigwig7

    wigwig7 Member

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    I understand now. I converted a 1.2GB mkv and it unpacked t about 2.4GB. So when I unpack the 8.2GB file it'll endup around 16GB. Thats fine i'll just burn the small files then. Thanks very much for your help. Very much appreciated.
     
  7. Ryu77

    Ryu77 Regular member

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    What do you mean it unpacked to double the size? That is impossible! The only way that could happen is if you re-encoded it to another format with a higher bitrate therefore increasing final file size.

    Depending on what type of video and audio streams you have inside the Matroska (mkv) container will determine which approach will work best for you. In some cases you will not have to recode at all, you will only need to repack the streams into a compatible container for your player. Other times you may only need to re-encode the video or only the audio. Worst case scenario is you have to re-encode both the video and the audio.

    However, I just took another look at your post. You said you don't have a HD Player but you have one that supports 1080p. Are you referring to an up-converting DVD player? If that is the case the input can only be a maximum of 576p (PAL)/480p (NTSC). The player only re-samples the video and up-converts it but it can not read a source file of 1080p.

    By the way gamename, it is possible to re-encode the main movie of either a Blu-ray (m2ts) or HD-DVD (evo) to fit onto a DVD9/DVD5. There isn't an all in one solution yet. You will need quite a few applications. I have been using various tools with great success. The basic steps are...

    1) Decrpyt the Blu-ray/HD-DVD to your HDD
    2) Demux the video/audio streams
    3) Re-encode video/audio streams as applicable
    4) Remux the desired streams into a container that will work on your player (I have been using m2ts for my PS3, which is also what Blu-ray uses)

    I have been helping quite a few to create PS3 compatible HD media files here... http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809

    wigwig7, if you can provide more information on your DVD player and the stream contents of the Matroska file, I will happily help. :-D
     
  8. wigwig7

    wigwig7 Member

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    Hi Ryu77,
    Well I should probably provide you with a few more details. Scratch the pioneer DVD player, the unit I will be watching the video on is a Samsung 40" LCD TV with max res of 720p. It's hooked up to a 5.1 Surround Sound system and is connected to a standard generic Dick Smith Electronics DVD player which can play almost every DVD i've ever put in there except multisession discs. (Just found it on the net http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/47b266d6098eabd0273fc0a87f9c077b/Product/View/G1928). I have a series of small .mkv files which are of 720p resolution, and one movie with a 1080p resolution.

    The small files details are as follows:
    Codec: avc1
    Res: 1280x720
    Frame Rate:25fps

    Now after conversion of this file using ConvertX the details are as follows:
    Codec: mpg2
    Res: 720x576
    Frame Rate:25fps

    So how do I go about keeping the res the same? It really annoys me. I don't want to have to get a million different programs and wait for hours for it to convert just something simple step by step, would be great. The only reason I thought the 8.5GB file would be 16GB when decoded using ConvertX is because when I converted the small file I talked about above, it almost doubled in file size. Appreciate the help. wigwig
     
  9. Ryu77

    Ryu77 Regular member

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    wigwig7, the DVD player you mentioned only supports standard definition so your only option is to create a standard DVD, which is what you are doing with ConvertX.

    I suggest that you back-up the original Matroska file so that if you upgrade your DVD player, then you can explore some options later to keep it in HD and play it on your new (HD-DVD/Blu-ray) player.

    In regards to your final file size, you will need to go into the settings menu for ConvertX and change the bitrate or output file size suitable for your media. A rough guide is a 90 min movie with mpeg2 and 5.1 Dolby (448kbs) should use a video bitrate of about 6000kbs to fit onto a DVD5 (single layer).
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2008
  10. gamename

    gamename Regular member

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    @ ryu, thanks for the info. i had been reading about something similar at doom9, but then x-mas came and ive been too busy since to try any of it. what i would like to do, is rip my hd or br movies and then burn them to a DL disc (8.5gb red laser). ive noticed that most commercial SD dvds the main movie is not over 6gb. so it only stands to reason that if u copied a hd source and used the whole capacity of a DL disc the quality would be better. im fully aware of the limitations of SD (480), but the way i see it, the better the quality of the disc the better the upconvert player will play as far as picture quality. i would like to try using mpeg4 at the max bitrate possible. i hear thats alot more effcient than mpeg2. i would also want to be able to pick which audio i like (dolby or dts) at the max bitrate possible. it seems to me this would be the best possible quality u could get from the standard definition format. my sony upconvert dvd player says it plays mpeg4 video, dolby digital, and dts (up to six channels). i hope this gives u a good idea of what i want to try to do. i read somewhere that the new slysoft (anydvdhd and clone2) will let u rip hd media and burn it to a SD disc in mpeg2. do u know if this is true? that would be a close second if i cant play the mpeg4 video on my dvd player. well i dont want to take over someone elses thread, so ill give u a pm in a couple of months when i get some free time. keep up the good work, people like u keep evrybody comming back.
     
  11. wigwig7

    wigwig7 Member

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    Ok so i'm sorry to bug you but could you walk me through on how to using ConvertX convert a 50min show at 720p as I talked about earlier to a DVD video with 720p, I can burn the shows to a DL recordable medium size is of no issue. Essentially what I'm wanting to do and now I know how to phrase it properly, I want to keep the show at exactly the same quality sound-wise and picture-wise so really all i want to do is change the format from mkv to dvd vob so that my player will read it.

    then after you've walked me through this I can quiz you about which of my players it will work on. thnx Ryu really really appreciate your help, great to know someone out there understands all of the crazy jargon to do with HD tech! :p
     
  12. Ryu77

    Ryu77 Regular member

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    But... it wont play it! I hope I don't sound rude here but that was exactly what I was saying in my previous post. A standard definition player (including upconverting DVD players) support a source video up to a maximum of 576p (PAL) or 480p (NTSC). If you are still are looking for a way to convert mkv to vob then there is a simple solution called mkv2vob. You can get it here... http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/video_tools/mkv2vob.cfm

    However, I must reiterate again... The player you have now will not play 720p source video of any kind.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2008
  13. Ryu77

    Ryu77 Regular member

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    gamename, your post is a little ironic actually because I started a thread a little while back with exactly the same chain of thought you are on. However, it didn't really get any attention... Hehe! You can check it out here... http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/616364

    The steps I mentioned earlier on this thread can also be used for what you want to achieve. When you say that your DVD player can play mpeg4, I am assuming you are referring to h263/asp level 5, aka: DivX/Xvid? It doesn't support h264/AVC, does it?

    If my assumption is right, then all you need to do after demuxing the streams from the m2ts container from the Blu-ray disc is recode the video to DivX/Xvid. As for the audio you wont be able to use the newer formats (Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD) as SD players don't support these formats. As for regular Dolby/DTS it can depend on your player. SD DVD players have mandatory Dolby Digital support up to 448kbs. Blu-ray players support up to 640kbs. I have heard that most SD players wont have any problem with the higher bitrate. However, I haven't tried! I haven't had the need to try this as my primary goal is to create PS3 compatible HD movie files.
     
  14. wigwig7

    wigwig7 Member

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    Ok fantastic I understand now. Well when I get home from work tonight i'll give you the details of my Pioneer DVD which i'm sure as HD support and upscaling, but i'll check. Been a great help and i'll check out that program mkv2vob, thanks mate.
     
  15. Ryu77

    Ryu77 Regular member

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    wigwig7, I don't mean any disrespect at all but I think you're missing the point. The only players that will support HD source material (720i, 720p, 1080i, 1080p) are Blu-ray or HD-DVD players.
     
  16. Tylers86

    Tylers86 Member

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    What about this:

    I have a xbox 360 I can stream to with my Vista Windows Media Center. I have a .mkv file in 720p and have read its possible to allow my Vista PC to stream movies to my xbox 360 on an HD TV. I think I need to convert the .mkv to a different file type, but will this result in any loss of quality? Can I play the .mkv and stream it to the TV through the xbox 360?
     
  17. Ryu77

    Ryu77 Regular member

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    Yes, you can do that without quality loss. Provided the streams inside the Matroska container are a compatible format. I don't have a 360 so I can't give detailed advice but I think there are many applications capable of streaming to a 360, including WMP 11, Winamp etc.

    You should look through the XBOX 360 section here at Afterdawn... http://forums.afterdawn.com/forum_view.cfm/152

    I am sure you will find your answer there. :-D
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2008
  18. wigwig7

    wigwig7 Member

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  19. Ryu77

    Ryu77 Regular member

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    No!

    Well not a true HD picture anyway. That DVD player can only upconvert to 1080p. As I said 12 posts ago...

    And 10 posts ago...

    And 7 posts ago...

    And 4 posts ago...


    I am sorry if I seem condescending, that is not my intention. I just thought I made it pretty clear for you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2008
  20. wigwig7

    wigwig7 Member

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    Ah now this is clearly where I am not knowledgeable. Sorry to frustrate you. Now I know nothing about upconverting or anything like that so bear with me. To me I thought this DVD player which upconverts to 1080p could surely display 720p.
    Is 720p resolution in an mkv file the same as 720p res in a VOB file? Is it not the resolution of a video which makes the picture HD or not? Therefore if my picture is 720p regardless of the format it should still be HD if my res is 720p? Won't any DVD player play a VOB file and display the video at whatever res the video output is regardless of its size? I'm still trying to understand all of this, sorry if I'm pis*ing you off I truly am.
     

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