mass. is another example also ,strict gun laws and high crime rate. it just doesnt work folks and Buik i have my "concealed carry permit" right in my back pocket sir lol
Just a few observations: @Buik: Philadelphia is armed to the teeth and, as mentioned earlier, we are the #1 city in the country for handgun murders. If an armed society is a polite society, we seem to be the exception to the rule ... we've also been given the honor of being the most unfriendly city in the US. @aabbccdd & neph: Naturally gun laws are going to be ineffective when you drive into the next county or state and buy the aresenal of your fantasies! When I have an expensive purchase to make, I go a half hour down the road to delaware to avoid sales taxes...why should guns be any different? How can gun control in DC work when you can go twenty min in any direction to buy (or steal) weapons to your heart's content? I don't know about DC but Philly will give a license to anyone...hell, if you've got a criminal record, just grease the right palm LOL! ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE: I was born in Rhode Island but raised in Quebec. Don't let anyone tell you they don't have guns in Canada! If memory serves, statistics are that, per capita, canadian citizens are better armed that americans...but they don't have the gun problems we have ... not even in their big cities; why is that? Perhaps because Canada doesn't have anything close to the social/societal problems that the US has? Having had a foot in both countries I can say one thing with certainty: canada addresses its social problems (albeit clumsily) while the US ignores them completely and then gripes when they've let it get out of hand. This is not the change of subject that it appears; I think it shows, in a way at least, that the handgun probem is, as Lethal says, not caused by the existance of the handgun but rather the society (be it a functional or dysfunctioal one) which wields them. (Another schitzo response, true enough!) I should post a sidelong pic of my building and the one across the street. In my bldg, you get your license and directly across the street is a gun store that spans for store fronts...sort of comical in an odd sort of way. In the window is a neon sign about shotguns, rifles, handguns, ammo...and they've got pictures of Moose, deer etc. etc....rather ironc; most philadelphia residents wouldn't have a clue what a Moose lookes like...hell, they don't even know the difference between a sheep and a poodle LOL!
Nice post Gerry, you made some great observations. I obviously agree with you that gun laws can be ineffective but for some differing reasons. It boils down to the fact that gun laws that restrict sale or owernship only punish law abiding folks who enjoy them for sport and self defense. Criminals by definition don't give a hoot about laws so what's a new law going to mean to them? Taking guns away from those that use them responsibly is akin to taking away everyones car because of all the drunk drivers killing people. Drunk drivers kill as many if not more people every year than guns so by following the same mentality for banning guns we should be making serious attempts to ban cars and booze but we don't. There's also the fact that it is guaranteed in the Constitution no matter how some folks try to interperet it. The founding fathers felt so strongly about it that they made it #2! Removing an Amendments from the Bill of Rights is an unthinkable act that will set a bad precedent - if they can get rid of one they can get rid of the rest. The minute we allow the government to dice up the Bill of Rights we as Amercans should be ashamed of ourselves for giving up something so sacred. Another reason banning won't work is that there are already millions of guns in our country making it hard to round up even half of them (Canada and Australia are proof). Smugling will keep plenty of guns here too. I live in Phoenix so I can attest to the fact that anything and everything there's a demand for will come across the border in huge quantities. There are and always have been thousands of illegal guns coming across from Mexico. Supply and demand doesn't stop for laws. Blaming guns for crime is a ridiculously simplistic view that will never solve the true problem. To solve the problem we need to start focusing on the person behind the gun. Guns cause crime like alcohol causes drunk drivers. Guns and booze are merely an object in a bigger, very complicated problem. When has banning anything truly solved the problem it was supposed to? Prohibition was a flop that created a lot of very rich criminals and banning drugs hasn't kept them off the street. Another point is there are thousands of folks each year who defend themselves and deter crime because they're armed. Should they be left defenseless to the crime that banning guns is supposed to stop? Guess that's it for now
When you make it a criminal offense to own a gun ... only criminals will have guns ... .. you are so right neph .. again banning something has only created a bunch of rich criminals
Gun crime in the UK has gone through the roof since new laws were introduced a few years back. This was a knee jerk reaction to a tragedy. As most of these laws are rushed through parliament, they rarely make sense. I would love to have guns. Not just to kill a**holes either!
I cannot believe it: Pulsar and aabbccdd are on the same page. Peace in the valley. J/K guys This happened here 2 weeks ago in BR La. A white cop pulls a black guy in nice car over for interrupting funeral procession. The two have words and before long the black guy is trying to kill the cop with the cop's gun. He manages to shoot the cop in the stomach and the fight continues til a white bystander comes out of a store and sees what's happening. He's armed(legal permit to carry) and tells the black guy to get off the cop and put the gun down, fight continues and bystander shoots the black guy and on the four attempt shoots him in the head, he hadn't missed the other 3 times but the guy wouldn't stop. Kills the black guy, the white cop survives and thanks the the bystander. So now we have another race issue to deal with. Grand jury will hear case. The bystander saves the cops life and now will have to go thru all the sh*t that will come. To half the town he's a hero but to the other half he's a racist. Be careful how you use that concealed weapon.
No matter what you do in life, half the people will think you did the right thing while the other half will condemn you ...
If everyone in Philly is armed to the teeth, then it must be only the criminals who have guns. I'm sure it is onerus for the average person to get a permit to even own a pistol, let alone get a concealed carry permit. As for Canada, I seem to remember, a few years back, that while shootings decreased after the outlawing of handguns, what shootings they had were more lethal because long arms were used. Elimiate all fire arms and humans to resort to older weapons. Like spears, knives, cudgeons, swords, branches & "oh no" stones. After all, we are at the top of the food chain because we are tool makers/users. The attitude of vilify the tool but spare the tool user....? Plows are tools. Remeber the old adage, "Those who beat their swords into plowshares will soon work for those who don't". Elimination of any kind of weapon for offensive/defensive means makes no sense. Tell a Grizzly Bear you are a peace loving creature, while it mauls you, & see how far it gets you. A firearm is a tool, like any other. It can be used, misused, abused & so on. Eh, even if I had to revert back to wearing a loincloth (or an animal pelt), I could still find a stone. TC
It was extremely onerous if not overwhelming trying to get a concealed carry permit in California .. But I live in Indiana now and it was the proverbial 'piece of cake' ... background check for felony convictions and the permit fee .. In Indiana the Constitution states that you have the right to carry arms ...
I recall reading something to same effect happened in Australia. The bad guys love knowing with certainty that their victims are unarmed I also recall reading that in the months after Florida started allowing concealed carry the crime rates dropped measurably. Hmmmmmmm.......
@ aabbccdd .. if you aren't a NRA member .. you need to join .. they have a bunch of politician's ears .. besides, if you shoot a lot, members have accidental shooting insurance ...
In the UK, if someone breaks into your house & you sneak up behind them & hit them over the head with a frying pan or baseball bat, you WILL be arrested & probably end up in court on assault charges. Also the burglar will probably sue you for using excessive force & damages. The police can take your fingerprints DNA etc, even if you are not charged with anything. The police can stop & search (for no reason) anyone they wish. The likelihood of you being found guilty is farily minimal, but you still have to go through the court system, which can be quite traumatic to say the least. Over here you are not allowed to protect yourself, your family or your property. Plain & simple. Even if you are run over by someone who steals your car & they are caught, the perps will only get a couple of years at most in jail. It is really f**ked up in the UK, the laws are designed to protect the defendant & screw up the victims. The government resists at all times, calls for the laws to be amended. Persistent burglars, car thieves etc, rarely get sent to jail. They are not allowed to be humiliated for their crimes (it is against their human rights) i.e. having to wear an orange jump suit whilst they conduct their community service orders. In school, teachers cannot discipline the children. The teachers get sworn at, attacked, raped, assaulted on a regular basis. The children are completely out of control. Our record for teenage pregnancies is sky high, alcohol abuse amongst teenagers is rife. On the other side, a child was prosecuted for throwing a snowball at a car! We have taken political correctness to a new extreme. One of the police forces do not consider burglary, theft, car theft a serious crime, but if you call someone gay, or black, you will be arrested. A student was actually charged with calling a police horse gay! That is absolutely true....There was a big furore about it. I hate the police, I hate politicians. They have absolutely no respect from most of the UK population. They pursue the most petty of crimes & leave the most important alone. An 80 year old man (he was an ex holocaust victim) was arrested under the terrorism act for shouting "rubbish" to a politician at the Labour party conference last summer. The government tried to gloss over it, but it was embarassing. We were told that the new act would be used rarely. That proved to be a complete fallacy. It is indeed infuriating.
hehehehe catfreak , i was going to type that BUT i would be in alot of trouble doing so lol you couldnt of said it better, BUT lets NOT get into a politics please guys
@aabbccdd Just after hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans, police and national guard units began confiscating fire arms from private citizens who were still in their unflooded homes protecting their property from looters. One man threatened to shot them (police) if the came into his house. Don't recall what hapened to him. The looters kept their guns because there were insufficient troops on the ground. So there is now a precedent of taking legally owned firearms. The NRA is down here to fight this and trying to get the guns back since they seemed to have disappeared mysteriously.
@Buik....it is very easy to get permits here; they'll give one to anybody. As I mentioned in other posts, I am ambivalent on the issue...I DO understand your points and agreed with you whole heartedly until I got my present job in Philly and saw first hand what was happening; part of my agrees with you yet part of me screams that thousands of innocent people are dying for this supposed right to bear arms...I was nearly one of them on three occasions. Still, as is our way in the U.S., we ignore every single problem until it's out of hand and too late. (Like New Orleans: we knew that was inevitable for decades and did nothing until it happened, then everyone blames everyone else). We're like that in everything. So, in that sense, I guess you guys are right...it's gotten so out of hand that its too late. Regarding the founding fathers: naturally, it was important to them. The brits had outlawed firearms for decades...they knew what was coming I suspect. In the earlier days of the revolution, our armies fought with farm implements until the frenchies saw a perfect opportunity for a little further a$$ kicking in a back and forth mayhem they shared with the Brits for some fifteen hundred years! So far as I know, we don't have any armies to arm in the present day.
If anything the politics is more right wing, not liberal! We are no where near liberal, more conservative. What with the obsession to control people & their actions. Our politics are getting more & more right wing as each term of each government progresses. But, as reasoned & learned discussion about politics is impossible here, I will stop now.
@pulsar...I'm curious to know your take on things though. It seems that the UK, Canada and other countries' definition of "conservative" and ours in the US are vastly different. It seems the UK and Canada's definition of the term are actually left of the american centrist. Not long ago, the last prime minister of canada lamented, "The whole world is going in one direction while the united states goes the opposite." It's not my intention to start a political discussion but I do ask one question out of curiosity: are there any religious groups in the UK so politically powerful that they could literally change the landscape of british law to mirror their beliefs and force their beliefs on the general public? Again, I'm not looking for a political discussion, I'm just curious to know if such groups exist in the UK as they do here in the US? ...also, I'm talking about politically powerful and influential groups...not the small handfuls here and there.
