Neph's POLITE Gun Debate

I'm not getting the AR-15, my uncle is. We live close by and always go to the range together go that's why I said that lol.

I've never used a M1 Garand(except in Call of Duty 2), how is it?

 

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=55
It's one of the more accurate sustained fire weapons available. The reason the military stopped using it was due to weight and in .30-06, it has a noticable kick. It can be purchased in .30-06 or .308 Winchester. The model I like is the M21 in .308. The .308 is usually the caliber of choice for snipers, but they normally use a bolt action rifle.
http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/m24.htm
I'd love to own an HK PSG-1, but it's way out of my price range.
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn14-e.htm

 

I have a question, how is the S&W 5943 9MM? How much should it be worth if it was used but in good condition?

 

When I was a child I grew up in a gun toting family, but for whatever reason it never rubbed off on me. As an adult and musician I traveled across virtually every corner of the continent without a gun, and without ever having needed one. I've seen more bars and taverns than most people can imagine (yes I know that some of you can imagine quite a few)and even under the most severe conditions (brawling bar fights with bodies rolling like a giant ball)I found no use for a firearm. I understand the right of responsible citizens to use and enjoy them, although I've never owned one. A sport is a sport and no group has the right to infringe upon that pursuit of interest, except when that individual has demonstrated that they are irresponsible and pose a danger to others. I say let those who are responsible use their guns, but for those who fail that simple test, let's forbid them from ever using them again.

 

In my opinion if everyone had a Gun crime would go down considerably. Would you want to rob someone if you KNEW they had a gun and would use it on you?

 

Yep! Dead people can't commit crimes. Let's really make it safe, and give everyone in the world a nuclear weapon. We could use a form detente by using the doctrine of mutual destruction. Those of us with more wealth could achieve neighborhood nuclear superiority.

Try this!!

The next time you're walking alone on the streets and you come across a stranger whose eyes don't look quite right. Their gaze seems to be fixed on something the rest of us can't see. Their gaze is upon you like a horizon that can't be seen. You have become transparent and they really don't see you. You're there but there as what? Now imagine that they see the ear buds around your neck, and their right hand has just quickly moved to a bulging jacket pocket. You know that you have your gun and so you reach toward it! You make certain that your movements look natural, you don't want to cause an alarm. The stranger is nervously watching you. There's a sudden look of panic on the strangers face as he watches you. The walkway suddenly turns into a narrow short tunnel and the light glows quickly dimmer. Panic sets in as you become aware that you could be in danger because of this odd stranger. All of a sudden he reacts with a shriek and reaches again for the bulging object in his pocket. You're quick! Your hand reaches for the concealed protection that you keep hidden on your person, and just as his hand is about to come out of his pocket, you fire, and drop him where he stands. You drop him and the dangerous paperback book, the nearly dried sandwich, a hat, who knows.

The point is that we can't predict how people will behave, even if their behavior is non threatening. Nor can they determine if some of our behaviors as benign. Freely arming everyone would result in a bloodbath of apocalyptic proportions. That's why many countries have trained police, trained to protect you. They know when to pull a gun and when not to!

 

Alright maybe not carrying a gun on the streets, but at least in your home. Out of reach from Children of course.

I know I sleep safer because there is a handgun close by me.

 

TO: Sophocles

"That's why many countries have trained police, trained to protect you. They know when to pull a gun and when not to!"

What an ignorant fool you are. A trained police force can only respond to a crime. Not protect you from one. When they do try to protect you from criminals, they are usually sued by the likes of the ACLU.

When the "scum of the earth/or any sentient being, claiming special status" wants to victimize any one else, BS!! A person should be able to shoot first and ask questions later. I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.

And SOPHOCLES, that you hold the title of "AfterDawn Addict" should not make you so sure of your position. I could have attained that title many years ago. I chose not to strive for that "title or status" when I encountered so many children on this site.

Ya'll have a good day. Especially those posting irrelevant comments to achieve a higher "title".

TC

 

In an early 1990's study of the effects of firearms collected from the American Medical Association and the FBI, it was determined that:

An owner of a gun is 43 times more likely to kill a friend or family than they are an assailant.

7 times more likely to be killed by their own gun defending themselves from an assailant than is he assailant.

I think that guns should find their way into responsible hands, but unfortunately their are far more irresponsible and dangerous hands wanting guns. If you are a responsible person than more power to you, but legislating that right measures the worthiness of no one to own one.

 

At least one of us is!!

apparently not including one of us!

I believe that I obviously hold the higher IQ between us as well. Just call me addicted to intelligence. LOL

 

Whoa, where did the title debate come in?

 

I had a few firearms at one time in my home but decided that having children in the same house was NOT going to mix. I've heard to many "horror" stories about guns and kiddies. An old Golf Pro, friend of mine, lost 2 children at an early age; one due to a gun incident and the other to a car crash I think. Both were tragedies to say the least. He had more sadness in his voice with the loss from the handgun than the car crash that it almost brought a tear to your eye.

Anyway I think the individual should be able to make their own decision and hopefully the "trained police force" will be able to be there in our time of need.

...gm

 

So any of you go Hunting? The deer in Florida are pretty small.

 

Sophocles
I've not heard of a rash of strangers being gunned down for brandishing their turkey sandwiches and Harlequin romances. Nuclear weapons? Neighborhood nuclear supremacy? Lets calm down. The problem in the scenario was a person with a mental problem carrying a firearm. The poor stranger would have had a better chance with a Glock than a Quiznos.

You might want to leave off the theatrics and "what if" situations and try to discuss more of "what is". Home invasions, car jackings, and muggings happen. There's people who like to abuse others because they "feel like it" and can. From your words you've covered our land without being accosted by gun toters. An interesting sidenote for you. Most states have laws making it illegal to carry firearms where liquor is served. Bars and honky tonks are among the protected areas. For the crowds that frequent such places, and the amount of alcohol and drugs consumed, I wonder why more violence hasn't occurred. Instead of doing away with guns, do away with musical venues that promote the violent lifestyles.

Here's some "what ifs" from a gun owner's perspective. If the gun toter in the scenario was legally carrying a weapon, he should have discerned whether it was a shoot or no shoot situation. Most states require training for those licensed to carry a firearm. If not licensed, a law was broken. If it's an unjustified shooting, someone needs to go to jail. If gun laws were enforced, there'd be little need for additional ones and a call to take away legally owned firearms. What's funny is that many people against firearms have no idea of what laws are in effect. Most think of what's been in the news in the past. What surprises me most is that people don't discuss owning firearms in a rational manner. Most often the discourse comes from "gut" feelings. Neighborhood nuclear supremacy?

Home defense and sport are the reasons I keep a few firearms. Some guns are a work of art. I've sold my collectibles and keep only a few functional firearms nowadays. Seems guns are a burglar magnet, if word gets out you have a collection. I had to buy a large (heavy) safe to feel comfortable leaving home for a few days. Now it's a repository for items that could be easily carried away in case of a burglary. I don't live on the bad side of town. Interesting thing I noticed though, many theives don't target the bad side of town.

Sophocles... I hope your luck continues. You've lived all these years without becoming a crime statistic. Unfortunately there's a lot who haven't been so lucky. Some poor souls actually get shot down in the streets like the sandwich toter in your story. Maybe a gun would have made some situations worse, but sometimes they wouldn't. I know I'd be less inclined to break into a home if I knew the owner had a gun. In some cities the burglars are protected. If a homeowner or renter shoots a burglar or home invader, they're taken to court and often dealt with more harshly than the real criminal that caused the situation.

If the only motivation was for saving lives, then the anti-gun movement should also be anti-automobile. What's the ratio of deaths on the highway to death by shooting on a daily or weekly average? It's a proven fact that the medical profession kills more people than gun owners. I've not seen a rush to jail doctors. Coming back to reality... let's discuss guns reasonably instead of from gut reactions. One thing is for sure, when legal gun owners can no longer carry firearms, criminals won't feel bad about it.

@abuzar
First off let me say there's a lot of variations in grading guns and pricing them. The 5943 used but in Good condition should run about $300. Above Good grade you have Excellent and New In Box (mint) condition. Highend for one of these is about $550 to $600. You can go online or pick up a copy of Gun Trader for some insight on grading and pricing. Naturally a gun that's closer to Excellent will cost more than one at the bottom of the Good category.

 

I would say it looks close to excellent condition. I picked it up at Gander Mountains for 450. Oh well they gave me a 100 dollars worth of gift cards.

 

Greensman
I think the situation with the lost children goes back to Psych 101. The death from a firearm was probably due to personal negligence. The death in an automobile has become more of an "accidental" situation where many factors come into play and the individual isn't always held as directly accountable. With the gun "it's your fault" and with the car it was an "accident". Naturally the guy is going to feel more remorse for something he caused and could have prevented over a car accident. I'd almost bet the guy doesn't keep guns but uses some form of automotive transportation. Strange how people rationalize things.

Since Sophocles didn't boast about being an Addict, I'll give him a bye on that one. LOL Looks to title... From what's been said I don't think many of us have anything against responsible gun ownership. But like anything else there are going to be the irresponsible situations to deal with. If banning was the solution, we'd all be walking and taking care of our health needs while trying to keep warm in our caves. Fire would be banned because someone got burned.

 

Gander Mtn is a little high, but not too far from fair market values. With the gun being close to excellent conditon and merchandise coupons added in, you didn't get burned.

 

I got my Ruger Mini-30 there for 650 bucks. Beats Ruger's suggested price of 835.

Also is there a good place where I can purchase 9mm ammo.

 

Shop around. I buy a lot of ammo at Wal Mart.