Neph's POLITE Gun Debate

@neph...thanks guy...venting my pet peeve LOL! Ah, glad I got that off my chest LOL! I'm told they're very easy to get on the street and very expensive. Maybe I should go into business with BlivetNC's cousin! j/k.

 

@LOCO...so did I! I didn't use the sort on the Y frame thought but rather, a pouch on two leather straps that you swirl above your head and let the front strap go. My cousin Joey was remarkably good ... I was simply dangerous lol! My cousin Joe is a taxidermist and got into it when he was just a kid. He started with the slig shot not to mark what he would later and rather grusomly stuff! He later progressed to a bow and arrow, then crossbow at which he is rather remarkable ... I can at least release the arrow in the right direction which is more than I could do with the stone in the sling shot!

When we were kids, we'd use unripened grapes in the sling shots and aim at this one particularly large hornets nest in the orchard...Joe was a rather remarkable shot but I never claimed that either of us were very bright LOL!

 

The people that should NOT have guns and hard drugs, have all they want; the ones who should have guns and hard drugs have all the obstacles!!

Isn't that how our Government works. Nothing new there.


Edit: I had a rather nice bow and arrow, and bb gun by 10.

 

True enough garmoon...true enough!

 

Me thinks it is time to start a thread here titled,
"The stupidest thing I ever did as a kid/teenager" Ex wives don't count..

 

Sounds good to me!

 

Sounds like it could be really funny!

 

          Here's a picture of LOCOENG with his pop-gun . . .

      

 

Here goes (By the way, this is all coming from an American point of view):
On the day of my Eighteenth birthday (which was only 3 days ago), I went out and purchased a rifle, mainly because I like guns: shooting them, hunting with them, and maintaining them.
However, there were a few other reasons also, and I'll write them down for you all (I'm so nice) .
1. I believe it to be not only a privelege, but a necessity to own a gun, mainly for self defense.
and 2. Because I was given a right by my forefathers to own one (and I like to exercise my rights).

Now, with these basics layed out, I can express my feelings on gun control, and (even worse) gun laws.

Here is my 2 cents: The second amendment was instituted into the Declartion to keep the people safe from the government, not the other way around. Our forefathers implemented it so that if our government ever turned sour, we would not only be able to defend ourselves, but would be able to overthrow the tyrants and reinstate Democracy.

Even the restrictions upon what guns you can, and can not own are a complete joke. What don't people understand about "...shall not be infringed"?

Besides, the law, no...not law, the absolute finality of the second amendment meant to protect us from the military (which of course would be at the disposal of the corrupted government). How are we supposed to do that if we've got inferior weapons?

Now, here's an example of a conversation between a friend of mine (who happens to want guns banned), and myself:
Friend- "But, if all guns were illegal, there'd be no where near as much crime as there is."
Me-"Not true, because the people who are doing all the killing, robbing, and other such things will STILL be able to get their hands on them...I mean, what's one more broken law to a criminal? Then what would normal, law-abiding people do, with no self protection?"
F-"Not if the police took them all, and buried them, or burned them, or whatever they do with them."
M-"I'll tell you exactly what they do, they KEEP them. So there would be a handful of people with all the power of the populice...not smart.

It goes on, but into rather boring details.

Well, I hope I didn't offend anyone, if I did, I apologize.
Regards,
S.A.A.P

 

NO need to apologize your right on the money. new gun control laws are dead with the way things are today. the american public wouldn't have it

 

Nice, I'm glad there are people who share my point of view (Who are outside of the family).
Let's just say I've got a family that's 3/4 FOR gun control (about 15 people), and the rest of us own enough guns to arm a small militia XD

 

I live in the UK & the gun laws are incredibly tight. If you have a criminal record (violent crime etc) you have no chance of owning a gun. You need land to shoot on, have a good reason for owning a gun (main reason is vermin control for a rifle, clay pigeon & vermin control for a shotgun). You then have to apply for each calibre & type of weapon, i.e. bolt action or SLR. The forms to fill in are quite extensive, you need 2 referees to confirm who you are & your competency. If you have depression you cannot own a gun.
After all that you then have an interview with the local firearms officer. This is to get a general feel of you as a person & to see how much you know about firearms, ballistics, ricochet problems etc! He speaks to you for about an hour, he then lets you know if you are OK to own firearms.
The reason I know this, is because I was OK'd last week to own a shotgun, a .22 SLR & a .223 bolt action. I was refused a .243 as I have too little experience (if I get some experience & re-apply in 6 months or so he said I should be OK).
I installed my gun cabinet last week. just waiting for him to come round, inspect my cabinet & give me my certificates!
You are not allowed handguns or fully automatic rifles (so no AK47s or M-16s!). You are also limited as to the amount of ammunition you can buy & possess. Conversely, you are allowed as many shotgun cartridges as you wish & you can keep them under your bed!
This is all due to a couple of incidents where innocent people (one incident saw many school children die) died & tighter gun control legislation was rushed through Parliament. As always, it was the innocent & law abiding gun owner that suffered.
Laws are required, otherwise any bonehead could get hold of a weapon, but I feel the laws are too tight.

 

@pulsar ... personally, I think you should count your blessings; had we had the sense to do that here long ago, we wouldn't have the same problems we have now. Many here say that if that were the case, only criminals would have handguns ... the UK and Canada prove that, for the large part, that argument is without merit.

A handgun is the perfect weapon for the would-be thief ... theft and robbery without a fight. It is a multiple daily occurance here in Philadelphia to simply shoot and kill the innocent pedestrian and go through his pockets. Now over 250 killed with handguns in seven months; eleven last weekend alone. I myself have come close twice: once in a drive by shooting where I owe my life to a concrete trash can on the street and a second time where I failed to become a dead hostage by having the good fortune of leaving the bank five or ten mins before the incident. (That gave me the most bizarre feeling...like having accidentally missed being on a flight that crashed). We've had a number of murders because some "stole" what another considered "his" parking space on the street. In Philly, you don't want to wear expensive clothes because people have been murdered for their learther jackets and even fancy sneakers. My friends 21 year old grandson got killed about three weeks ago for being in the wrong place at the wrong time ... the same as my two close calls only fate didn't look upon him quite as kindly.

Philadelphia is only the fifth largest city in the US but but has the highest handgun murder rate of the big five. As I write these words there is a petition being circulated in the city and advertised on TV to take hand gun control laws our of the hands of the capital and into the hands of area residents. You can bet I signed it! I think they're on the verge of doing something now; they've moved state police into the city streets and there is a lot of talk about activating national guard troops. You know, the real shame is that no one cared that Philadelphia hoods were preying on the innocent residents because most of the city is dirt poor; it raised eyebrows though when the wealthy suburban business commuters and tourists started to fall victim as well ... I guess killing them can hurt the bottom line. After all, kill all you want....just don't kill those that matter. Regarless of democrat or republican, no one cares about the little guy and bows to the power of the wealthy and big interests. The NRA has far more money than community groups and while I doubt that members of the NRA have been lost to gun violence, they literally make national policy while community groups that have lost so many accomplish mothing. Both political parties in the US have bowed to this and if I can credit the republican party with one thing, its at least honest in its public relations that they just don't give a sh** while our other political party simply "pretends" to care.

 

Gerry, with utmost respect I have a couple statistics to point out...

About 100,000 people die each year due to medical mistakes versus 10,000 due to gun accidents and homicides.

There were 16,694 alcohol-related fatalities in 2004 – 39 percent of the total traffic fatalities for the year.

SO should we make medical practice illegal? Or driving cars? Or alcohol? What about tobacco?

I feel your pain living in Philly. "The City of Brotherly Love" is the greatest oxymoron in America. I lived in LA for a while, and I am familiar with the street violence you live with. However, it is not the guns that instill the violent tendancies, nor is it the guns that commit the murders and/or violent crimes. I have several guns and I have never killed anyone, nor have I ever commited a violent crime (well aside from fistfights as a kid). These people weilding the guns with disdain for human life would simply weild another weapon if they could not get their hands on a gun.

In 2002 FBI statistics show that 1/2 (7,136) of all murders were commited by handgun, with less then 1000 by rifle, shotgun, or other firearm.Knives or cutting instruments, Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.), Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.), Poison, Explosives, Fire, Narcotics, Drowning, Strangulation, Asphyxiation, and Other weapons or weapons not stated being the other methods. The bottom line is, if they want to kill, they will do it, and many times over do kill with or without the gun.

I only wish I could find a statistic on how many crimes were averted by firearm... I am willing to bet it is a hell of alot more then the 2002 murder rate.

 

@sandt38...as an ex-marine, I'm familiar with weapons (somewhat at least) as well as their use, the need for them and their function in society; I do not deny they have a useful function ... I'm hardly a pacifist. If I may introduce a theological principal (as you did without reazlizing it)....the very essence of "temptation" issues from the fact that for everything good, there is an evil use of equal proportion. While not a terribly religious person (as "religious" is defined by most), there is a great deal of wisom in that precept: in fact, I would go so far as to say that the truth of it is self-evident. Medicine, the example you used, is a good example indeed: it saves so many (not to mention it has saved my life on a handful of occasions) and, indeed, it kills many but (in this country and similar ones)"death" was not the objective although medicine can indeed be used to kill in very insidious ways. But for the sake of the general public, we control medicine and its practitioners ... sure, lots of doctors get rich on unnecessary operations etc., but the control standard work quite well more often than not...we try to control the circumstances by which people become "victims" of medicine and while more progress is necessary, we do it with a good deal of success all the same. There is debate as to whether marijuana has a medical use but it had many uses for many years from making rope to use as a natural insect repellant when planted amidst other crops. Someone recently said that alcohol (booze) had no practical medical purpose but nothing could be further from the truth; it has been used medically since before recorded history ... as an anesthetic, tribal desert people use a week alcohol solution in their water as it lowers body temperature, Europeans went so far as to turn it into an art-form, but from initially fully practical purposed ... but we do have controls in place to protect the public from getting sick from poorly made alcohol, we restrict who can buy it and, like medicine, it can kill and mame and does so with an unfortunate regularity, but that it is not the objective of its use (or abuse) but the consequence unlike firearms which have but one purpose ... which can also be a good purpose, or an evil one but unlike medicine and other things, we make no attempt to promote the good use while controling the evil.

I disagree with you (to some degree) about how people would just find another way to kill. People go for the easy route ... the route with the least possible consequences. Someone with a knife, a club, a garotte or whatever cannot hide behind a bush and blow my brains out from fifteen feet away before taking the five bucks from my wallet or the sneakers from my feet; people think differently when there is a fight that will ensue ... the criminal and the junkie are self serving and prefer to stay nice and safe. In a different thread, we spoke of a disabled Iraq Vet and his wife who got mugged...its because he's an easy target; your common junkie, mugger, petty thief generally fear danger...the go for the disabled, the elderly etc. for that purpose. A gun makes it all moot.

"Self-preservation" is probably the strongest of all human emotion and reaction and it is indeed self-preservation which is behind both sides of the same arguement; I think that's what makes discussion of this subject so interesting. To the one, self-preservation is a very strong influence in wanting the ability to possess a handgun while to the other, it is that selfame sense of self-preservation that makes him opposed to them. Its a matter of what best serves that sense of personal safety which is the one thing we certainly all have in common. That want of personal safety is evident amoung the police. There aren't many big city cops who don't PRAY for stricter gun control laws.

 

Gerry1 you have very valid points. I'm very much for the rights to own hand guns, rifles etc. The major problem is there's no enforcement of the laws onthe books both federal and state where the stricter of the two is supposed to be inforced. The judges and lawyers that let these scumbags off with light sentences to do the crime over and over again is ridiculous.Michigan supposedly has a law three strikes and your out, I have yet to see any enforcement. The stooges get sent to prison for 5 to 15 years and are out on parole in 2 1/2 years within 6 months are busted are sent back another 10 months. and come back out again.If the enforcement was there Detroit wouldn't have the gun related crime rate it has today.the disrespect allowed in our society adds to the breeding ground. Sorry for this bag of wind ., but I enjoy the sport of shooting and reloading. Some how our streets have to be taken back and employment and economy enriched.My 2 cents and Neph if I over stepped the rules I appologize . Chris This was in no way meant as a flame at Gerry1 or any one else just how I see things.