Official PS3 vs. Xbox 360 vs. N. Revolution

whoa, whoa, whoa whoa.... don't mess with my tekken, talk about anything else, but not tekken. you can say what ever you want about me or even my family, but not tekken. that game got a 8 and a 9 without online play, and the levels wasn't like doa. and i think that's pretty amazing. people are getting tired of gta, and did you see tekken 6? my god man, to bad it was a cut scene. but that is in doubt the best 3-d fighting game. virtua fighter has to many unoriginal characters, and doa copied all of it's characters from tekken and virtua fighter. tekken has the most original characters and each character has the at least 60 moves, most have 100! now a fighting game that can do that with over 30 characters, and put the arcade versions of tekken 1, 2, 3, and have a mini game on it all at once, that's some hardcore shit.

but back on subject, 15 million is little because they still must buy evreything again to make more ps3's, eventually they, will or will not run out of money. and the dual shock 2 controller was the original ps controller with 2 analogs!

Sony, i hope for the best but i don't think you goin' make it, not the way you'll be shivering and shaking on the pavement..

i like the front of the ps3, until they showed the rest of it, and people said the 360 looks like some sky box thing in europe. i live in stl though. and people said that the ps3 will be bigger than the 360 and that the 360 will be the size of the ps2! is this true anyone
oh yea almost forgot, rap4life, sports games come out on all systems.
some may have have special features for certain consoles like nba street v3 had the mario bros. on gamecube

does anyone knows when the nr is coming out?????????

 

since i posted a whole bunch of 360 info i thought it would be fair if did the same for the ps3


A Sub 40,000 Yen price has been mooted by Japanese website, Impress PC Watch, indicating that PS3 will be priced at the same level as both PS1 and PS2 at launch.

Both the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 launched at 39,800 Yen (294 Euro at today's conversion rates) when they arrived in the Far East, while the Xbox and the GameCube both launched at lower prices - 34,800 Yen (257 Euro) and 25,000 Yen (185 Euro) respectively.

Now, a report over at Impress PC Watch is indicating that Sony Computer Entertainment has cited a price point of less than 40,000 Yen for the PS3 launch in conversations with its business partners.

That would certainly seem to indicate that the traditional 39,800 Yen price point could be adhered to, and would bring the console in significantly lower than the 50,000 Yen (370 Euro) price point quoted by Japanese newspaper Mainichi Daily News last week.

Sony Computer Entertainment president Ken Kutaragi has revealed the true purpose of PlayStation 3, further explaining the functionality of the console and its place in home entertainment.

Speaking to Impress PC Watch, the SCE boss boldly stated that PS3 "is not a game machine", going on to proclaim that Sony has "never once called it a game machine".

According to Kutaragi, the machine is to be an "entertainment supercomputer" that, unlike other computers, which are invariably built primarily for other purposes, is designed to deliver the best all-round entertainment experience yet seen.

"PCs that are currently available have been created as work tools," Kutaragi explains. "They've begun selling computers with media playback capabilities, such as the Media Center PC, but those just imitate the functions of home electronics. It's not like those machines have been created solely for entertainment.

"On the other hand, PS3 has been created as a computer for entertainment. Entertainment refers to a lot of things, and not just to games. PS3 will be able to provide powerful functions for all forms of entertainment."

Kutaragi also explains that PS3 is the product SCE has been building up to over the years with the release of its previous machines.

"We haven't been creating our PlayStations for the sake of games," he explains. "Our belief, and the motivation behind running our company, has been to [apply] the power of computers to entertainment and enjoyment.

"We equipped the original PlayStation with a 3D graphics chip, and we equipped PS2 with the Emotion Engine. PS3 isn't designed to lean towards games. It's not a computer for children. In the sense that our goal has been [to design] a computer that's meant for entertainment, you could say that the original PlayStation and PlayStation 2 had existed as steps towards PlayStation 3.

"PS3 is the product we have been aiming for since the establishment of SCEI."


Comic book movies and games seem to be big money these days and here we have anouther game that has come out of The Darkness.

Based on the best-selling Top Cow comic book, The Darkness casts players as Jackie Estacado, a fearless Mafia hitman for the Franchetti crime family who is suddenly possessed by the terrifying and spectacular powers of The Darkness. Throughout the game, players must learn to control and harness The Darkness power in order to overthrow the vicious mob boss and fulfill their destiny.

The Darkness features a seamless and unique blend of modern crime drama and supernatural horror through first and third-person, non-linear gameplay. Utilizing the Starbreeze engine for next generation consoles, The Darkness features single and online multi-player action across highly realistic environments.

"We are excited to have secured Starbreeze, a highly talented and respected team, to develop one of our first titles for the next generation of video game consoles," said Jesse Sutton, president of Majesco. "Combining the top-tier development talent and technology of Starbreeze with the compelling content of Top Cow's The Darkness comic book series provides a solid foundation for success."

Union Entertainment, a feature film and video game production company, packaged the deal which includes Paul Jenkins, a seminal writer in The Darkness comic book series, who will provide game story and dialogue.

"The Darkness" live action film, produced by Platinum Studios and Dimension Films, is estimated for release in 2007.

A small preview of the game was shown at E3 on the Xbox360 platform. It featured a very dark backalley city setting along with a demon creature crawling from building to building. Then finally it zoomed onto Jackie Estacado's glowing eyes with the moon shining in the background. Dark indeed

We will have more on The Darkeness as it develops.


While speaking to News.com on the last day of E3, Julian Eggebrecht, president of the San Rafael developer Factor 5, the company responsible for the Rogue Sqaudron series, said his company is now creating games solely for the PlayStation 3.

"I was shocked by how powerful the new consoles are," he told News.com. "They should really free our development." Eggebrecht said the power of the PS3's Cell CPU was the deciding factor, as it will let Factor 5 create games closer to virtual reality.

Eggbrecht's comments come little more than a year after Factor 5, which had developed almost exclusively for the GameCube, announced it would no longer make games for the games console. At the time, he downplayed speculation the studio would abandon Nintendo. "We are extremely excited about both DS and GCNext, so any talk of us abandoning Nintendo platforms altogether is just not true," apparently speaking too soon.

CPU

Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE

* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
GPU

RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Sound

Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell- base processing)
Memory

256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz 256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
System Bandwidth

Main RAM 25.6GB/s
VRAM 22.4GB/s
RSX 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB< 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)
System Floating Point Performance

2 TFLOPS
Storage

Detachable 2.5" HDD slot x 1
I/O

USB Front x 4, Rear x 2 (USB2.0)
Memory Stick standard/Duo, PRO x 1
SD standard/mini x 1
CompactFlash (Type I, II) x 1
Communication

Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x 3 (input x 1 + output x 2)
Wi-Fi IEEE 802.11 b/g
Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)
Controller

Bluetooth (up to 7)
USB 2.0 (wired)
Wi-Fi (PSP)
Network (over IP)

AV Output

Screen size:
480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
HDMI:
HDMI out x 2
Analog:
AV MULTI OUT x 1
Digital Audio:
DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1
Disc Media

CD:
PlayStation CD-ROM, PlayStation 2 CD-ROM, CD-DA, CD-DA (ROM), CD-R, CD-RW, SACD, SACD Hybrid (CD layer), SACD HD, DualDisc, DualDisc (audio side), DualDisc (DVD side)

DVD:
PlayStation 2 DVD-ROM, PlayStation 3 DVD-ROM, DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW

Blu-ray Disc:
PlayStation 3 BD-ROM, BD-Video, BD-ROM, BD-R, BD-RE


The PlayStation 3 Cell Chip


The PS3 Cell

The PlayStation 3's CPU is a revolutionary new chip codenamed "Cell”. It is being developed by an alliance between Sony, Toshiba and IBM. The system will use chip-to-chip interface technology and memory technology from the Rambus group.

Cell's first public demonstration has been announced for the 2005 E³ conference, while the first technical details were released at the February 2005 International Solid-State Circuits Conference (ISSCC). Patent applications have also given us valuable information regarding the Cell chip’s architecture.

The CPU's supposed distributed processing features have lead to speculation that many items in the home, with differing numbers of Cell chips, can pool their power.

Early versions of the chip will be 90-nm, with a change to a 65-nm process, if cost and performance allow. Abstracts from presentations at the ISSCC, show the Cell processor running at 4.6 Ghz.

In December 2004, Nvidia announced that they have made a multi-year agreement with SCEI to develop the PlayStation 3's GPU, which is a custom variant of their next-generation graphics processor. In fact, they had worked for two years on the chip before making the announcement. They were previously responsible for the GPU in the Xbox console.

The 'Cell' chip which will consist of 234 million transistors, and have a die size of 221mm sqaured. A single Cell is theoretically capable of achieving a maximum of 256 billion floating-point operations per second (GFLOPS). This astounding single precision (32bit) floating point performance has been achieved by using a new radical architecture.

The Cell chip uses a highly parallel architecture with a total of 9 cores. These cores consist of a custom general purpose PowerPC processor core which is connected to 8 "synergistic processing elements" or SPE’s for short though a central bus called the element interface bus [EIS].

The PPC core is the brains and the SPE’s are the main workers in this design. Unlike some other parallel processors the Cell can be clocked very high, in fact with voltages ranging from 0.9 to 1.3 volts it can reach clock speeds of 3.2 to 5.2GHz. At 4GHz each SPE can achieve a theoretical maximum of 32GFLOPS.

Some developers have hinted that they would like to make games on the next generation consoles, others have confirmed that they are already under development. i have listed all of these titles below which i believe will be appearing on the PS3 console.

2 days 2 Vegas - Steel Monkeys

Avalon - Climax

An 'NHL' Ice Hockey game - Page 44 Studios

Dark Sector - DigitalExtremes

Demonik -

Elder Scrolls IV - Bethesda Softworks

Fifa Soccer 2006 - EA - Gamespot Article

Fight Night Round 3 -

Gran Turismo 5 - Polyphony

Indiana Jones -

Killzone - Midway

King Kong -

Mortal Kombat 7 - Midway

MotorStorm -

Metal Gear Solid 4 - Konami

Possession - Blitz Games

Quake 4 - Id

S.T.A.L.K.E.R - THQ

Tekken 6 - Namco

Tiger Woods PGA Tour 06 -

The Getaway 3 - Team Bondi

Unknown title - Surreal Software

World Rally Championship - Evolution Studio


http://www.ps3portal.com/?view=article&article=124

 

ummm almost people here are writing to defend the ps3 until the launch, someones without now anything about it.

please read carefully this, and later post your opinions

There are three critical performance aspects of a console:

Central Processing Unit (CPU) performance.

The Xbox 360 CPU architecture has three times the general purpose processing power of the Cell.

Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) performance

The Xbox 360 GPU design is more flexible and it has more processing power than the PS3 GPU.

Memory System Bandwidth

The memory system bandwidth in Xbox 360 exceeds the PS3's by five times.

The Xbox 360's CPU has more general purpose processing power because it has three general purpose cores, and Cell has just one.

Cell's claimed advantage is on streaming floating point work which is done on its seven DSP processors.

The Xbox 360 GPU has more processing power than the PS3's. In addition, its innovated features contribute to overall rendering performance.

Xbox 360 has 278.4 GB/s of memory system bandwidth. The PS3 has less than one-fifth of Xbox 360's (48 GB/s) of total memory system bandwidth.

[bold]DETAILED ANALYSIS OF PERFORMANCE SPECIFICATIONS[/bold]

[bold]CPU[/bold]
The Xbox 360 processor was designed to give game developers the power that they actually need, in an easy to use form. The Cell processor has impressive streaming floating-point power that is of limited use for games.

The majority of game code is a mixture of integer, floating-point, and vector math, with lots of branches and random memory accesses. This code is best handled by a general purpose CPU with a cache, branch predictor, and vector unit.

The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming.

Xbox 360 has three general purpose CPU cores. The Cell processor has only one.

Xbox 360's CPUs has vector processing power on each CPU core. Each Xbox 360 core has 128 vector registers per hardware thread, with a dot product instruction, and a shared 1-MB L2 cache. The Cell processor's vector processing power is mostly on the seven DSPs.

[bold]Dot products are critical to games because they are used in 3D math to calculate vector lengths, projections, transformations, and more. The Xbox 360 CPU has a dot product instruction, where other CPUs such as Cell must emulate dot product using multiple instructions.[/bold]

Cell's streaming floating-point work is done on its seven DSP processors. Since geometry processing is moved to the GPU, the need for streaming floating-point work and other DSP style programming in games has dropped dramatically.

Just like with the PS2's Emotion Engine, with its missing L2 cache, the Cell is designed for a type of game programming that accounts for a minor percentage of processing time.

Sony's CPU is ideal for an environment where 12.5% of the work is general-purpose computing and 87.5% of the work is DSP calculations. That sort of mix makes sense for video playback or networked waveform analysis, but not for games. In fact, when analyzing real games one finds almost the opposite distribution of general purpose computing and DSP calculation requirements. A relatively small percentage of instructions are actually floating point. Of those instructions which are floating-point, very few involve processing continuous streams of numbers. Instead they are used in tasks like AI and path-finding, which require random access to memory and frequent branches, which the DSPs are ill-suited to.

Based on measurements of running next generation games, only ~10-30% of the instructions executed are floating point. The remainders of the instructions are load, store, integer, branch, etc. Even fewer of the instructions executed are streaming floating point—probably ~5-10%. Cell is optimized for streaming floating-point, with 87.5% of its cores good for streaming floating-point and nothing else.





Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.

Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.

[bold]GPU[/bold]

Even ignoring the bandwidth limitations the PS3's GPU is not as powerful as the Xbox 360's GPU.



Below are the specs from Sony's press release regarding the PS3's GPU.

[bold]RSX GPU[/bold]

550 MHz

Independent vertex/pixel shaders

51 billion dot products per second (total system performance)

300M transistors

136 "shader operations" per clock
The interesting ALU performance numbers are 51 billion dot products per second (total system performance), 300M transistors, and more than twice as powerful as the 6800 Ultra.

The 51 billions dot products per cycle were listed on a summary slide of total graphics system performance and are assumed to include the Cell processor. Sony's calculations seem to assume that the Cell can do a dot product per cycle per DSP, despite not having a dot product instruction.

However, using Sony's claim, 7 dot products per cycle * 3.2 GHz = 22.4 billion dot products per second for the CPU. That leaves 51 - 22.4 = 28.6 billion dot products per second that are left over for the GPU. That leaves 28.6 billion dot products per second / 550 MHz = 52 GPU ALU ops per clock.

It is important to note that if the RSX ALUs are similar to the GeForce 6800 ALUs then they work on vector4s, while the Xbox 360 GPU ALUs work on vector5s. The total programmable GPU floating point performance for the PS3 would be 52 ALU ops * 4 floats per op *2 (madd) * 550 MHz = 228.8 GFLOPS which is less than the Xbox 360's 48 ALU ops * 5 floats per op * 2 (madd) * 500 MHz= 240 GFLOPS.

With the number of transistors being slightly larger on the Xbox 360 GPU (330M) it's not surprising that the total programmable GFLOPs number is very close.



The PS3 does have the additional 7 DSPs on the Cell to add more floating point ops for graphics rendering, but the Xbox 360's three general purpose cores with custom D3D and dot product instructions are more customized for true graphics related calculations.

The 6800 Ultra has 16 pixel pipes, 6 vertex pipes, and runs at 400 MHz. Given the RSX's 2x better than a 6800 Ultra number and the higher frequency of the RSX, one can roughly estimate that it will have 24 pixel shading pipes and 4 vertex shading pipes (fewer vertex shading pipes since the Cell DSPs will do some vertex shading). If the PS3 GPU keeps the 6800 pixel shader pipe co-issue architecture which is hinted at in Sony's press release, this again gives it 24 pixel pipes* 2 issued per pipe + 4 vertex pipes = 52 dot products per clock in the GPU.

If the RSX follows the 6800 Ultra route, it will have 24 texture samplers, but when in use they take up an ALU slot, making the PS3 GPU in practice even less impressive. Even if it does manage to decouple texture fetching from ALU co-issue, it won't have enough bandwidth to fetch the textures anyways.

For shader operations per clock, Sony is most likely counting each pixel pipe as four ALU operations (co-issued vector+scalar) and a texture operation per pixel pipe and 4 scalar operations for each vector pipe, for a total of 24 * (4 + 1) + (4*4) = 136 operations per cycle or 136 * 550 = 74.8 GOps per second.

Given the Xbox 360 GPU's multithreading and balanced design, you really can't compare the two systems in terms of shading operations per clock. However, the Xbox 360's GPU can do 48 ALU operations (each can do a vector4 and scalar op per clock), 16 texture fetches, 32 control flow operations, and 16 programmable vertex fetch operations with tessellation per clock for a total of 48*2 + 16 + 32 + 16 = 160 operations per cycle or 160 * 500 = 80 GOps per second.



Overall, the automatic shader load balancing, memory export features, programmable vertex fetching, programmable triangle tesselator, full rate texture fetching in the vertex shader, and other "well beyond shader model 3.0" features of the Xbox 360 GPU should also contribute to overall rendering performance.

[bold]Bandwidth[/bold]

The PS3 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and 25.6 GB/s of RDRAM bandwidth for a total system bandwidth of 48 GB/s.

The Xbox 360 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and a 256 GB/s of EDRAM bandwidth for a total of 278.4 GB/s total system bandwidth.



Why does the Xbox 360 have such an extreme amount of bandwidth? Even the simplest calculations show that a large amount of bandwidth is consumed by the frame buffer. For example, with simple color rendering and Z testing at 550 MHz the frame buffer alone requires 52.8 GB/s at 8 pixels per clock. The PS3's memory bandwidth is insufficient to maintain its GPU's peak rendering speed, even without texture and vertex fetches.

The PS3 uses Z and color compression to try to compensate for the lack of memory bandwidth. The problem with Z and color compression is that the compression breaks down quickly when rendering complex next-generation 3D scenes.

HDR, alpha-blending, and anti-aliasing require even more memory bandwidth. This is why Xbox 360 has 256 GB/s bandwidth reserved just for the frame buffer. This allows the Xbox 360 GPU to do Z testing, HDR, and alpha blended color rendering with 4X MSAA at full rate and still have the entire main bus bandwidth of 22.4 GB/s left over for textures and vertices.

[bold]CONCLUSION[/bold]
When you break down the numbers, Xbox 360 has provably more performance than PS3. Keep in mind that Sony has a track record of over promising and under delivering on technical performance. The truth is that both systems pack a lot of power for high definition games and entertainment.

However, hardware performance, while important, is only a third of the puzzle. Xbox 360 is a fusion of hardware, software and services. Without the software and services to power it, even the most powerful hardware becomes inconsequential. Xbox 360 games—by leveraging cutting-edge hardware, software, and services—will outperform the PlayStation 3.

Lastly, we were sent updated spec numbers on the Xbox's numbers, and we spoke with Microsoft's Vice President of hardware, Todd Holmdahl, about the Xbox 360's final transistor count.

Another bit of information sent our way is the final transistor count for Xbox 360's graphics subset. The GPU totals 332 million transistors, which is spit between the two separate dies that make up the part. The parent die is the "main" piece of the GPU, handling the large bulk of the graphics rendering, and is comprised of 232 million transistors. The daughter die contains the system's 10MB of embedded DRAM and its logic chip, which is capable of some additional 3D math. The daughter die totals an even 100 million transistors, bringing the total transistor count for the GPU to 232 million.


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thanks

 

not bad info you guys, keep it up I love it.

Peace out!

 

i'm not defending the ps3, i'm getting the 360 and the ps3, it's that earlier i posted a lot of info about the 360 up, so i decided to do the same for the ps3, i'm just being fair. so don't think i'm a ms fan boy or a sony fan boy. i'm not. and don't think i'm a ms or sony hater either. i still believe that the 360 is the better system for now, and since it's coming out around christmas, how can u not but love it. and when they said that the ps3 was coming out in spring 2006, they weren't lying. it is *coughs ( in japan ) coughs*.
the ps3 is coming out summer 2006 in the u.s. so for you sony fan boys and sony lovers, it's time to face the truth, sony had you all going. and don't worry ms lovers and fb's, i'll something negative about the 360 as well.

see, me, i'm just reporting the facts and in the end, i'll sit back and see who will win. at first i was with sony for a little while, then i shifted over to ms for a quite some time, now, i'm in between.

and if you wanna know where i got the ps3 japan spring thing, just ask me and i'll give you the link, better yet..... here http://ps3.ign.com/articles/618/618698p1.html

and dammsaint, i thought someone had already posted all that stuff, or maybe it was on a different site

 

Here the Deal, Strait up I am an Xbox man, it was the first system,in my opinion in recent memory to truly get me away from P.C.games and to tell you the truth I haven't played a complete PC game since,(Altough I keep buying em!)I just feel clostrophobic sitting over my pc,not to mention I have never been able to get a good control system down, I have even tried keyboard mapping joysticks like the Suncom SFX2 anyways, my game plan for this next gen wars is like this, right now I am going to be loding up on xbox titles; i.e. forza, burnout 4, the suffering 2, fable, jade empire ect. this should allow me to cruize through Xbox 360 launch (And winter) without jonesing to much, as I see it they won't be able to keep the launch price going for much of next year, as everyone who has to have one will get one by January 06, and it is my opinion along with launching Halo3 they will also lower the price at least 50-100 bucks to get momentem rolling again just before PS3's launch, the only thing that can screw up my plans is if Sony delays thier launch because they aren't ready, in that case microsoft won't see any need to lower thier price.Also my perdictions, the PS3 will ditch the blu-ray and use a regular dvd player, because they gotta use the expensive Cell they designed and also the expensive GPU, the only place they can relisticlly cut corners to lower the price is on Blu-Ray also because of the price of the Cell CPU and GPU they won't have a hard-drive.and they still will have to sell at a huge loss,Any thoughts?

 

I'm going to throw my .02 in.
Did anyone notice that all of the PS3's screen shots were prerendered on an computer? THey also did not release any in game vids. M$ also showed the "power" of their system by showing in game vids on get this.... an apple G5!!! The only in game modeling done was by the ATI booth showing the power of the new grahpics chip going into the 360. It was the only partially working console of the bunch. I think just by screen shots M$ has this one. The PS3 screens look too PS2-like.... ie. cheap and cloudy. Free online sounds like it will be the name of the game.

Also I am going to laugh my ass off if blu-ray is not the industry standard, and sony gets the shaft.

 

"dammsaint" dude you just copied and pasted the same info than "thefact" guy. Look at page nine on this post and you will read the same post you just added. There are mistakes on some of the info and I have steted them like 2-3 times (look back). The big performance issue on the article or argument is (concerning the cpu) based on the fact that the spe's (cores) that the 7 spe's have no cache memory. When in reality the fact is that each has spe have 256k of l2 cache per in adition 512k on top of that. Therefore all that cpu info is completely wrong. Read again the article and then closely read and analize the ps3 specs. All the questions and arguments have been answered here several times in this post, so please if you are joining late read whats been written before.

later

 

i'm looking foward to heavenly sword for the ps3 and gears of war for the 360. you can't resist to play games like those. and true crimes 2 is coming out. dissapointingly, no for the 360 but for the regular xbox, go to http://www.truecrime2005.com/ they said some stuff about it at ign. i just can't wait 'till tekken 6 comes out, that's really why i want the ps3. i must have it.

I AM THE KING OF THE IRON FIST TOURNAMENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

FintheA, thats because the xbox have basically ported most of there games until recently. The thing is guys and any possible girls, is that its not only about power, sure its a big part. But when you think about it ultimately it comes down to games!. So far its been sonys ball park. Sure xbox had some e.g halo1,2, jade empire and then it starts going down hill. From there on games seem to either come from ps2 or pc.

Now im not saying you guys are lying, but it seems unbelievable that sony only has 15million. When you think theres sony music, sony appliances, and then sony playstation. But please feel free to correct me.

Do you really think they would use it or even suggest they were using it if they hadn't had it all ok'd?

Come on guys just a bit of common-sense is all i ask.

(And 00Gravity, you do sound a lot like Zinn, and i've been following this thread from the start.)

 

One last thing bout how you guys think the xbox controller is so good. Don't know bout you, but to me it looks like an adaptation of the dual shock controller. Must jus be me

 

It looks like a smaller original xbox controller to me. and i don't know if sony only does 15 million left, i just read it in the paper. maybe they only have 15 million to spend on the ps3, who knows, i just read it. and sony does have better games well exclusive games anyway.

I'm the tekken king I tell you, the kiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnggggggg!!!!!!


ps: I DON'T SOUND LIKE ZINN HE DOESN'T EVEN APPRECIATES THE THINGS SONY HAS DONE! STOP SAYING I SOUND LIKE HIM!!!!! PLEASE I BEG OF YOU! Plus, he's a tekken hater. DOWN WITH ZINN!!!

 

Grunt14:
"Do you really think they would use it or even suggest they were using it if they hadn't had it all ok'd? " Actually, yes. Both they and Toshiba are planning on doing just that. Without a common standard (Blue Ray or HD) both intend to move forward with their respective formats and effectively start a format war. I would fully expect Sony to use it especially if there is a format war because it means that they get their technology out there in peoples homes (with the expectation that if they have it, they will use it) and gain dominance with that particular format.

velascoj2:
While I agree that people failed to mention the 256K, it acts more like a L1 cache instead of L2 and not really even like that. While it is cache, it's not really L2 in that sense.

Now for a question that I haven't seen yet. Can anyone tell me how the hell Sony figures that the RSX is capable of 1.8 teraflops? Going through the specs (particularly the 2 Tflp rating) it seems that the cell is capable of 240 Gigaflops or something like that, while the RSX is listed at 1800 gigaflops... Now I'm not a GPU engineer, but if memory serves, the G70 that the RSX is based on is suppose to manage around 250 gflps based on the proposed hardware. I really don't get how the 1800 number came about and hoping that someone out there could clarify it...

 

But base on pc vs. console technology goes. the console version of those video cards are usually more advanced because they are custom for the particular consoles objectivity ( there is also a yearly cycle but I/m not going to elaborate). Kutaragi stated that what sony wanted out of ps3 was to be as close to a super computer on tflops performance due to that it would give the console an unprecedented amount of shader rendering capability that not even the xbox 360 can match. Thats why the cell was design mainly with one purpose comparing the multipurpose of xbox. if we follow that same logic when designing the rsx gpu then we should come to a conclusion that the rsx internal design will be very different that the home incarnation. It was stated several times that that special gpu was specificaly made to use the full performance of the cell chip and that to enhance the teraflops shader capacit( which is not the of Killzone 2 can be in fact a reality due to the shader rendering power that the ps3 was mainly design for ( but until all specs are fully disclosed I will have not have a dam clue as to how they get those numbers) main focus of the xbox) Think of it as that the video quality y. And since sony refused to fully detail the rsx specs it will be very difficult to have a valid the pc version assuming that it is eloper friendly as possible

 

Damn velascoj2, can you do my homework coz you my friend are hardcore. Where the hell do you come up with these facts?

Well in that case, i think it's a good plan. To strive to be different. And imagine the possible games to come out with 54gigs of space to work with!

 

velascoj2 as i see you read carefully the article, but someguys are wrong about the cell procesor, the cell has 7 spe, those are like the pentium 3 hypertreading technology that has 2, the cell is not 7 processors runing at the shame time as everybody think, the xbox has 3 phisicaly procesors, lets stop this fight about it, anyone of us are no playing with ps3 or xbox 360, a lot of people gonna buy both consoles (i will).

some reason with i will buy both consoles:

1- im the owner of a games & computers store on my country (dominican republic)
2- a future ninja gaiden, dead or alive, halo, forza motorsport.
3- devil may cry, gran turismo,metal gear

actuallity i love the xbox, but i dont now about the future until i get the 360 or ps3.

excuse me for my bad english, my native language is spanish.

 

Cell V's x86

This looks like a battle no one can win. x86 has won all of it's battles because when Intel and AMD pushed the x86 architecture they managed to produce very high performance processors and in their volumes they could sell them for low prices. When x86 came up against faster RISC competitors it was able to use the very same RISC technologies to close the speed gap to the point where there was no significant advantage going with RISC.

Three of what were once important RISC families have also been dispatched to the great Fab in the sky. Even Intel's own Itanium has been beaten out of the low / mid server space by the Opteron. Sun have been burned as well, they cancelled the next in the UltraSPARC line, bought in radical new designs and now sell the Opteron which threatened to eclipse their low end. Only POWER seems to be holding it's own but that's because IBM has the resources to pour into it to keep it competitive and it's in the high end market which x86 has never managed to penetrate and may not scale to.

To Intel and AMD's processors Cell presents a completely different kind of competition to what has gone before. The speed difference is so great that nothing short of a complete overhaul of the x86 architecture will be able to bring it even close performance wise. Changes are not unheard of in x86 land but neither Intel or AMD appear to be planning a change even nearly radical enough to catch up. That said Intel recently gained access to many of Nvidia's patents [Intel+Nvidia] and are talking about having dozens of cores per chip so who knows what Santa Clara are brewing. [Project Z]

Multicore processors are coming to the x86 world soon from both Intel and AMD [MultiCore], but high speed x86 CPUs typically have high power requirements. In order to have 2 Opterons on a single core AMD have had to reduce their clock rate in order to keep them from requiring over a hundred watts, Intel are doing the same for the Pentium 4. The Pentium-M however is a (mostly) high performance low power part and this will go into multi-core devices much easier than the P4, expect to see chips with 2 cores arriving followed by 4 & 8 core designs over the next few years.

Cell will accelerate many commonly used applications by ludicrous proportions compared to PCs. Intel could put 10 cores on a chip and they'll match neither it's performance or price. The APUs are dedicated vector processors, x86 are not. The x86 cores will no doubt include the SSE vector units but these are no match for even a single APU.

Then there's the parallel nature of Cell. If you want more computing power simply add another Cell, the OS will take care of distributing the software Cells to the second or third etc processor. Try that on a PC, yes many OSs will support multiple processors but many applications do not and will need to be modified accordingly - a process which will take many, many years. Cell applications will be written to be scalable from the very beginning as that's how the system works.

Cell may be vastly more powerful than existing x86 processors but history has shown the PC's ability to overcome even vastly better systems. Being faster alone is not enough to topple the PC.

Cell V's Software

The main problem with competing with the PC is not the CPU, it's the software. A new CPU no matter how powerful, is no use without software. The PC has always won because it's always had plenty of software and this has allowed it to see off it's competitors no matter how powerful they were or the advantages they had at the time. The market for high performance systems is very limited, it's the low end systems which sell.

Cell has the power and it will be cheap. But can it challenge the PC without software? The answer to this question would have been simple once, but PC market has changed over time and for a number of reasons Cell is now a threat:

The first reason is Linux. Linux has shown that alternative operating systems can break into the PC software market against Windows, the big difference with Linux though is that it is cross platform. If the software you need runs on linux, switching hardware platforms is no problem as much of the software will still run on different CPUs.

The second reason is cost, other platforms have often used expensive custom components and have been made in smaller numbers. This has put their cost above that of PCs, putting them at immediate disadvantage. Cell may be expensive initially but once Sony and Toshiba's fabs ramp up it will be manufactured in massive volumes forcing the prices down, the fact it's going into the PS3 and TVs is an obvious help for getting the massive volumes that will be required. IBM will also be making Cells and many companies use IBM's silicon process technologies, if truly vast numbers of Cells were required Samsung, Chartered, Infineon and even AMD could manufacture them (provided they had a license of course).

The third reason is power, the vast majority of PCs these don't need the power they provide, Cell will only accentuate this because it will be able to off load most of the intensive stuff to the APUs. What this means is that if you do need to run a specific piece of software you can emulate it. This would have been impossibly slow once but most PC CPUs are already more than enough and with today's advanced JIT based emulators you might not even notice the difference.

The reason many high end PCs are purchased is to accelerate many of the very tasks the Cell will accelerate. You'll also find these power users are more interested in the tools and not the platform, apart from Games these are not areas over which Microsoft has any hold. Given the sheer amount of acceleration a Cell (or set of Cells) can deliver I can see many power users being happy to jump platforms if the software they want is ported or can be emulated.

Cell is going to be cheap, powerful, run many of the same operating systems and if all else fails it can emulate a PC will little noticeable difference, software and price will not be a problem. Availability will also not be a problem, you can buy playstations anywhere. This time round the traditional advantages the PC has held over other systems will not be present, they will have no advantage in performance, software or price. That is not to say that the Cell will walk in and just take over, it's not that simple.

 

Kutaragi and his team set out to create a different future, well we see how ell it's going,
but anyway music, movies, communication, and gaming all in one. and here we are complaining. looking for behind the scenes. directors cut. extra footage.

but back on subject, i think that sony was showing all cgi during e3 because, sony and ms both used the unreal engine 3, ms has more memory, but sony has better graphics. bullshit. the 360 showed a cut scene from gears of war. and it looked like "real time" on the ps3.
I'm not trying to bring down the ps3, but i just find it hard to believe that the ps3's real time looks like the 360's cgi's. it's unbelievable. straight up outrageous.

What's up with sony and ducks. I thought it was quite funny when they showed the ducks though. but they had a little to many. does sony have a fetish for yellow ducks?

what was the reason of square enix going over to ms anyway. so this whole think we're discussing is basically about graphics. and who knows what the 360's graphics are capable of. they have a custom gpu. ms may come out with a game later next year with brain tearing graphics. or they may keep the same graphics.
who knows.

Last week, the Mainichi Daily News quoted Sony Computer Entertainment officials as saying the PlayStation 3 would be priced at under 50,000 yen ($465.58). Now it appears that the console may be even cheaper when it goes on sale next year.

Today, Japanese Web site Impress PC Watch reported that SCE has told its business partners that the PS3 will be under 40,000 yen ($370) at launch. The news has spurred speculation that the company might launch the machine with the same price it set for the PlayStation and PlayStation 2. Both machines were priced at 39,800 yen ($368) when they launched in 1994 and 2000, respectively.

Sony's PS3 will be competing with Microsoft's Xbox 360 and Nintendo's Revolution in the next-generation console wars. When it launched in Japan in 2002, Microsoft's current-generation Xbox was priced at 34,800 yen ($322). The company has been shaving down the console's cost since then, and it currently sells at 17,640 yen ($163).

 

Whats a teraflop?