Proposed limitation on "Newbie" posts...

the gist is there are some minor issues about how newbies go about getting answers to there problems and where the posts originate.

Is there no little tool at your disposal that you guys can implement that as long as they have the newbie or junior member tag that until they reach the higher levels like 'god' or should i say member status that they can read the posts in all sections but cant actually post in the advanced sections.This solution might infuriate them but it will weed out the ones who just post anywhere and they may then have to search before posting questions.I know that its quanity of posts not quality maybe that should change.

but as i pointed out before i'm just a number it really is up to the site owners and moderators to fix the probs that pop up.


quote:You all have valid posts on how you all see the current situation of this forum, and i guess ultimately its dRD and the moderators who will change the site for the betterment of us.

 

praetor ,

maybe i should of worded it a little bit more carefully along the lines of: for those that the moderators think, warrant it.

Instead of jumping in all gungho.

andmerr

 

Hi All,

From brian100's first post (a later edit)

Dear God, perish the thought!!!
Me a Mod, that would most definately not be acceptable, and I would not accept, for the following reasons:
I am not a people person, I have difficulty understanding and tolerating the vagaries of the human condition.
I am of too contentious a disposition.
I have a tendancy towards the "Dark Side of The Force".
I tend to be a bit of a Control Freak.
I am an inveterate rule-follower.
I have a tendancy to use a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
etc etc
I know my limitations too well, I know I am a flawed human - I am also old enough to know and catch those limitations (most of the time !LOL!).
This makes me extremely well suited to my chosen profession, and extremely unsuited to anything like a Moderator (please, can EVERYONE keep the One Ring To Rule Them All AWAY FROM ME!!!!).

You can breathe easy Brian, no worries mate

[bold]Hunter007:[/bold]
Thanks for joining in, and welcome.

My INITIAL proposal was to limit Newbie & Junior Members starting threads (posting questions, if you will) in the ADVANCED section.

That was subsequently modified in my fourth post to read

The difference being that Junior Members would not be subject to limitation (I realised that the original proposal would have too broad an effect, and should be limited to target those who abuse the rules the most).

Nowhere within my proposal was there any hint that Newbies would not be able to post a question - perhaps you misunderstood

You too have noticed the abuse, the ignoring of rules, the posting of "Help Me!!" type threads etc..

If it is obvious to a Junior Member like yourself, the situation needs to be examined, and dealt with, do you not agree???


[bold]Praetor:[/bold]
Welcome to the debate.
If I may be allowed to deal with some of the points you have raised...

Yes, that MAY happen!!
What you, the other Mods, Admin (basically the authorities of the forum) could do is make some ROUGH calculations on probability and effect:
What probability that such posts would happen? and how often?
What probability the abuse by Newbies will continue? and how often?
What is the probable ratio of Newbies LIABLE to posting a question in the wrong area to "Advanced Lurkers" LIABLE to post a question in the Advanced area?
What is the probable ratio of Newbie posts in the Advanced area that RIGHTFULLY should be moved compared to the probable ratio of "Advanced" questions that SHOULD be moved to the Advanced area?

Those cases are possible, I agree.
BUT: they ARE extreme minority cases, are they not??
I know that society in general is suffering from a malaise that deems that minorities are to be molly-coddled at the expense of the vast majority, but does this forum need to be infected with that illness???

You also missed the change in proposal made in my fourth post...
So the possibility exists that your judgement on me being "wrong" or "not quite wrong" may be in error?

So, two people missed the change.
First was Hunter007, a Junior Member.
Second was Praetor, a Moderator with Formal Debating Experience (surprised I was that YOU missed it)

Please can interested parties take note of the change of proposal.

Well put, I concur wholeheartedly..

I concur - so maybe the Advanced section should be renamed to be "Not NooBs Generic Questions" <just joking to illustrate a point>

It seems that you are slowly coming round to the LOGIC of my proposal, even though on an emotional/social level it may not feel "quite" right (difficult to say exactly what is "wrong" with it, though )

Very well put, though it may not be the ONLY reason, it is undoubtably the MAIN reason for implementing the proposal (or something similar)

Not at all, never did I consider such.
That would smack of Elitism for sure, and surely would be divisive - you won't catch me with that one, sorry. !LOL!.

I am not elitist, and to be truthful, care little for status...

Let us all keep this debate going, and hopefully we can achieve a concensus on improvement.

Have Fun...
_X_X_X_X_X_[small]Life is just more of the same:[/small]

 

What is this? Looks like Praetor and drchips are trying to see who can post the longest reply. I ahve it as a tie so far - we'll just watch and see ;-)

 

Hiya Praetor,

Whoooaa! Dude...
You have my sympathies, and as much slack as you need
It has been over 20 years since I had to do my Masters (Computer Science), and even though I breezed it, I can imagine the sort of strain you are under (I saw many of my compatriots going through the same thing).

I wasn't having a dig (the surprised thing), I was GENUINELY surprised as you have so consistently noticed just that sort of thing in previous posts/threads - my apologies if it caught you wrong (I plead non-knowledge of your situation as mitigation).

If I may address the latter half of your reply:
The quote you made has been taken out of context, and should be read with the preceeding lines in mind:

When taken IN context, it is something completely different, is it not?

Your last two paragraphs seem to be based upon that "out of context" quote, and based upon a false premise - I shall leave it there (cutting slack).

Good Luck on the exams front, matey.
How long have you got to keep up that workload?
When can you relax and get drunk?

Cheers..
_X_X_X_X_X_[small]Life is just more of the same:[/small]

 

Drchips

Sorry for the "moderator" jibe. It was totally out of order and uncalled for. Many apologies. I am pleased you didnt "destroy" me when you replied, although I did hold my breath for the duration of reading the post!!.

I decided to look through the section "DVD-r For Advanced Users" tonight to see how many threads have been initiated by Newbies or Junior members. Yes it was a most boring task, but I thought I would look.

Of the last 100 threads on that section only 4 have been started by users of the status "member" or above. It does seem that very few members, senior members & afterdawnaddicts have any questions to ask. Perhaps they hit "google" to search for answers ?. This is the method I use when I am baffled by a problem.

If Junior members & newbies were not allowed to post in the "Advanced" section the consequences would be obvious. IE we would all be watching "tumble weed" roll across our screen upon entering that section.

Perhaps instead of stopping junior members & newbies from posting on the advanced section we should totally scrap the "advanced section" & just have a section called "DVD-r" ??.

 

[bold]brian100[/bold]:

I disagree with the scrapping of the "advanced" section altogether. I commend you for your obviously, tedious research, but there WILL be advanced questions that need "advanced" attention.

I don't bash long posts, they usually explain a lot, but the ones in this thread just seem to be arguing about who is right and wrong.

I am still a Junior Member, but have been registered on this site for some time now and have noticed that a lot of newbies post ridiculously stupid questions. Some that have been answered just a few lines down, but the point was to keep newbies from posting in advanced sections. While you're at it why not ban them from posting new threads alltogether? As stupid posts are not only in the advanced sections. I think that there should be something implemented that stops the posting of stupid, already answered questions, but what can anyone really do? I mean the site has banners stating to use the search function and to read for their possibly already answered questions. Banning newbies from posting in advanced sections, will result in being futile.

 

quote: but what can anyone really do?(section of hunters last post )

well how about leaving it in the hands of the moderators for know.We have brought it to there attention, let them fix it if it needs to be fixed.

 

andmerr

I disagree...this debate has far reaching implications for this forum as a whole. The more that enter the debate the better.





_X_X_X_X_X_[small]Why are The Samaritans always engaged?[/small]

 

[bold]brian100:[/bold]No worries

I tend to jump on the following types of posts:
Faulty/specious/false etc logic.
Emotional/bleeding heart/politically correct etc.

And, for fun, I also join in on those who have a permanent KICK-ME on their back (bit of a moral duty !LOL!)

Sometimes I get slapped for it (but never hard), stirring things up, that is one of the drawbacks/benefits of playing Devils Advocate!!

Good on yer for going and LOOKING, doing a bit of research, as have I (different results because different criteria) BUT, my results are BROADLY similar to yours...

So, the "DVD±R" idea is a possibility, worthy of consideration by all (note: not a proposal, merely a recommendation for consideration).

[bold]Hunter007:[/bold]

Good, we need ALL the views we can get (for AND against) as those are a prerequisite for INFORMED debate, it is only by examining what we percieve this forum to be and comparing it to how we would like it to be that any constructive changes can be formulated (IF the consensus is that any are needed!!).

sometimes it is necessary to "clear the killing field" before progress can be made - If you re-read the thread in a different frame of mind, you may come to a different conclusion (no implication as to which conclusion is right/wrong/whatever).

The IMPORTANT thing is, you are joining in, taking part in a debate that MIGHT have an influence on our community here.

You commented on the quantity of "Stupid Posts".
As I have said, your views are important, as is the contribution you are making in expressing them.

[bold]andmerr:[/bold]
Can I be so bold as to invite you to join in and contribute?
I don't think we are yet at the point where a Ruling is required, as there is much scope yet for investigation, examination and debate.

[bold]Dela:[/bold]
Welcome, long time no read!!!
Your input as one of the more vocal Mods is especially useful, as the broader the mix in this debate, the more inclusive any subsequent conclusion will tend to be.

Agreed!, and that seems to be the consensus that is being reached.

What seems to be happening is that we are addressing PERCIEVED problems now, trying to define them, and hopefully, kick a few ideas around that may help alleviate those problems.

So, it seems that the Original Proposal, and the subsequent modification to it are, De Facto, redundant..

Good, I have NO problems with that.

I am heartened to see the members of this community taking an active part in examining and discussing this community (hopefully with a view to improving it).

Let's keep this going, it could be of real benefit to everyone.

It would be nice to see some Newbie posts in here too

Have Fun...
_X_X_X_X_X_[small]Life is just more of the same:[/small]

 

Great to see you post again Dela!

drchips:

I suppose you are right in saying that I should read it again, with a different mindset. I did and once again, you were right. When I read it all I saw were people clearing things up.

I'm guessing this thread is now to see what can be done to improve AD? Well since we (or the founders of the thread) have decided that the newbies posting in advanced section is now done, lets move onto another topic that can be improved.

I think that the site is great and that dRd is doing a lot of work to maintain it. The mods are doing an excellent job as well. I've seen a couple of the changes in the AfterDawn site and most of them have been for the better. This is one of the few message boards, that is actually being used for what it was initially meant for: computer and technological needs (I think). Things that can be possibly updated/changed are the member classes. I'm not sure if it has been changed, but the ranks of members(newbie, junior member, member, senior member, AfterDawn Addict etc) For example from what I know it is based on number of posts, as opposed to quality. I know this would mean looking through each post, and that would be tiresome, but there must be something. If someone comes and posts 25 5 or 6 word posts they immediatly go to Junior member.

To me that shouldn't be, just a thought though.

Oh, drchips

Sure this thread isn't too advanced for newbies? Haha I'm just kidding...

 

Hey all,
Wow, that was a lot of reading. Interesting debate with many interesting and valid viewpoints.
Let me start by respectfully disagreeing with the overly broad statement..
There is no damn difference on this forum between people with the "Newbie" status and people with the "Moderator" status!
Not necessarily true. Possibly true for sure, but in terms of skill level, more often than not the "Newbie" is BOTH new to the Forum and new to the technology being discussed. I know because I am one of those people. Our resident newbie moderator Herbsman, clearly knows volumes more on the topic than I...and there's the 'difference'. For the sake of this debate, let's call that a Type A newbie.
Then you have the person who comes along, as Praetor, Dela and others have mentioned, that is quite knowlegeable on the subject, but has newbie status solely due to being newly registered. Perfectly qualified to post in the Advanced Users forum. Lets call that a Type B newbie.
Now, altho I've never been there to see for myself, (why on earth would I go in there yet?), it seems there is a problem with 'Type A' newbies posting in the Advanced forum.
To me it's very simple...there are rules, splashed right in your face before posting, and if you are indeed Type A, then you are ignoring/breaking them. And that really shouldn't be tolerated, or else you might as well through out the entire rulebook.
And it shouldn't take a qualified moderator long (about 2 seconds)to distinguish a typeA newbie from a TypeB.
So, might I suggest some sort of Auto-response to posters who are in the wrong forum...a short and clear statement that could be easily pasted into the offending thread. It need not be harsh, just a gentle reminder that they are in the wrong place and if they take their question to the approprite forum, someone there will try to help. And then close the thread. Period. No exeptions or it will be business as usual. It has to be strictly enforced or it won't work. Make it sound anonymous and automatic...everyone gets the same response , so no one can take it personally... something like..."Auto-Response from the AD Administrators...etc etc etc.

Like I said, I haven't been there myself to see how this problem is being handled now, so if this is already being done, my apologies, lol. But if the Type A's are recieving help in the Advanced forum, they will continue to seek help there, obviously.

And finally, let me say that I STRONGLY support the idea of two separate forums. Advanced users SHOULD have a place of their own, dammit. It's a good idea, and it's how "Da Boss" and whoever set it up and that is the bottom line. Don't let the rule breakers spoil it for the true geeks in this field (and I use that term lovingly).
Just my humble opinions,
Doohickey,
Newbie Extraordinaire (Ha!)

 

Doohickey

Welcome to this debate..

I really think this idea has REAL potential. It's a great idea. Inoffensive and to the point.

 

I think Drchips is winning in the essay contest on this one.

About the topic. I would and did assume that the advance section was for advanced questions and the other for general questions. To me that would make sense, thus if you had a really advanced issue then it could go there. I am not too sure what that would be, maybe reprograming from source or something.
I don`t think that newbies should be cut off or restricted. the number of topics here at Afterdawn, we are all newbies. Good point Dela!!

 

Thanks Brian, and thanks drchips for inviting me here to join in,

Man, can I kill a thread or what! Sure got quiet in here...
Well anyway, I wanted to follow up on my first post. I took a look around inside the advanced DVD forum, (I know, I know, I should have looked before commenting at all), and it didn't take long to realize the flaw of my idea. It is not just a case of TypeA and TypeB newbies. I should have designated the truly advanced user as TypeZ, because there are users (newbie and otherwise) running the gamut from A to Z, in terms of knowlege/skill level, using that forum.
So where do you draw the line? What is your definition of advanced user? Who gets the hook and who doesn't? It could get ugly. I guess the management will have to decide that. There are newbies helping newbies with fairly advanced (to me anyway) advice. And there are (lots) of users who seem to have 'graduated' themselves from the newbie forum into the advanced forum simply because they have succeeded in making a few dvd backups and therefore "I must be an advanced user now", if you know what I mean. One can easily imagine the hurt feelings and obsenity laced reactions to trying to send them back to 'grade school' at this point. You stand to lose valuable contributors to the forum, which of course wouldn't be good...everyone should be allowed to offer help, thats what a community is all about, right?
The key I think, as drchips has suggested from the beginning, is to focus on the starter of the thread. I did see several threads STARTED by obviously TypeA newbies,(ie Sea bisquit & the Lion King, Serious Problem with dvd-r's, and others) that clearly belonged in the DVD-r for newbies forum. They should defineatly get the hook. They are in the wrong forum, violating the rules on posting that are very clearly spelled out..they don't have a leg to stand on if they want to argue about it. Chase them back to the newbie forum and likely more and more of the lesser advanced users will follow, because those are the types of questions that they can help with. Anyway, at the least it should solve the problem of TypeA's starting threads in the wrong forum, although not overnight to be sure. They'll still start them, for awhile, but if their threads get immediately closed (or moved) after the auto-response thingy) .. (sorry mods, I realize this means work for you, but what else have you got to do all day, lol)... sooner or later they'll get the message that the rules on that splash screen will be enforced. They aren't being enforced now.
Or...do nothing and let things continue as is, if that is the consensus. I don't really care either way, it's not my problem (shrug). I'm just here to learn (which I have, Thank You!), and have fun pesterin Scuba Pete.
See ya's around the boards,
Doohickey

 

Doohickey:

That's a good point. If the rules are enforced somehow, then users will start to understand how it is supposed to work around here. I think "chasing" them back is a little harsh though. Sometimes harsh is necessary. I like the Auto-Response idea, but how would it work? For example would it be something along the lines of excluding the word Playstation from all other forums other then the PS2 discussion board? That could work, but there is a problem. If a user is having trouble converting Divx to VCD(which by the way seems really common, even though its been answered a million times) and they have the word Divx, in the S/VCD forum and an Auto-Response stating that the user has the wrong forum. There is faults with this new feauture, but I'm sure it could be worked out.

Lets here some more ideas and try to figure this one out, its seems pretty good.