Discussion in 'Xbox - Games' started by blue_fire, Dec 31, 2006.
I heard somewear you can play games from ps2 on xbox if you have a mosd chip.
Can't be done.
i think so
Yup.. It's total crap again.. Even the pc ps2 emulators don't work properly yet.. There will never be a ps2 emulator for the xbox.. It isn't physically possible with the hardware available.
And plus, emulators run from software only. So you would need a system more than 2x as powerful to run it. (maybe even more.)
lol; just to go into some basic raw numbers here....
The PS1 was (I believe) about 33Mhz(I could be wrong, but I know for a fact it's less than 90), and a system of 300Mhz was required by most emulators to even run it at the original specs. In order to run it higher, it was suggested to have at LEAST 500mhz, but more around 700-1000Mhz for good support. So, basic math, you needed a pc literally about ten times faster to emulate it just on a basic level. There were a couple games that were exceptionally easy to emulate, due to simplistic engines, etc. But the were something of an 'exception to the rule'.
The N64 was 90Mhz(This I know, and I know it was faster than the ps1). It was barely workable on my old 200mhz, OC'd to 300Mhz with 384Mb of ram, and a starfighter video card(Awesome at the time), n64 emulation now just *starts* to be tolerable on 700mhz systems, and even then, it's rather limited for most games, unless they have simple engines(A lot of the racing titles did, which made them great for emulation).
Now, there is the commonly known fact that Window's overhead memory and cpu use can severely hinder resources specifically for things like emulators. So, the real test is to put an emulator onto something with less overhead usage, like, say a game system.
The xbox has emulators for ps1 and n64 that are fairly well developed, and the programmers have a decent understanding of the hardware they're working with. It has little overhead in comparison to a windows pc.
The xbox can run MOST ps1 games decently on original settings, but still has problems with some. Moving on to n64 emulation; if you go through a lot of trouble to get the settings down as close to the original as possible, you'll be able to run about 60% of the games to a degree, and about 30% of them at full speed, and it's not exactly the best group of titles, it's the low detail, easy-to-run titles.
The N64 was 90Mhz, and had 8mb internal ram, and an optional 4mb memory expansion(Which IMO was mostly useless).
The XBox was 733Mhz, with 64mb ram.
The XBox which is a little over 8x faster, with 8x the basic memory; cannot only run a few titles above original settings, and just around half of them on original settings. It suffers even more when you try to run an expansion pack game(I tried DK64.... Shudder).
It would seem that even on a system with little to no overhead usage, you still need a system with about 10x the power to emulate decently. And the XBox is nowhere near that good compared to the ps2, it's just around 2x. Not happening. Ever.
Maybe on the 360, in fact, somewhat rather likely when homebrew becomes popular on it; but even that's a way off.
It is possible but when ever you do it its very risky. If you put it in wrong it will try to read xbox game and it will not read anything any more many people have tried to do that and it did exactly that. you would have to take everything apart of your xbox and to do it right you really cant take apart everything if you could it would end up costing $780.00 dollers for everthing[color=blue[/color]
read the posts above, its not possible
I normally refrain from calling out newbies, but you're a special case.
Either you're having fun with your little bs run there; or you really have no concept of how a computer actually even works.
The bios contains the basic instruction set, which then loads the background OS, commonly referred to as the dashboard. The xbox uses a very slightly modified Pentium III Celeron chip; which has actually been put into some computers. It has been flashed with M$' own bios with different instruction sets. Most of these instruction sets are not directly compatible with what we use on PCs, which is why the Linux community had a hard time cracking the system at first, but later are able to do SO MUCH with it.
The PS2 contains a custom chip, made by sony, with completely foreign architecture, that uses language incomparable to a pc or an xbox. In fact, many programmers have complained (Especially since the ps3) that Sony's language is difficult, because it doesn't make the most sense, unless you've been working with it for a LONG time(See: Original PSX, lol.)
The two consoles have completely different flashes, completely different hardware, and completely different languages on both the basic flash, and the graphics code. It is physically impossible for an xbox to run a ps2 game, unless you were to open the xbox, open a ps2, rip out the guts of the xbox, and mod the ps2 parts to fit into the xbox. And quaite frankly, there's no earthly reason to do that.
daddygama, I suggest that if you enjoy spreading completely baseless rumors, you keep it off this forum, there are others like myself who will shoot your attempts down every time. And if you really believed what you were typing, you should probably have read the whole thread before replying, you would have already seen why it's impossible.
Have a nice day.
I see a need for some ice, cause you just got burnt!
Ooooh! Sick burn! Straight up served lol. Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
wow OWNED! that was seriously a lot of facts......nice work
Thank you. I try to know what I'm talking about. (Usually I succeed. lol.)
Here we are.. The full ps1 specs.
The Playstation was released in 1994 and enjoyed great success, mainly because of the company's strong financial back enabling it to market the PS widely and its ability to get hundreds of developers to license games for the console. Playstation sales figures were concrete proof that Sega and Nintendo had to be on their guards and start worrying about their latest and most dangerous competitor.
The Playstation retailed for $299 and has sold over 50 million units worldwide. Its library contains almost 1000 games! In 1999, Sony released an updated version of the PS dubbed the PSOne that was both cheaper and smaller.
CPU: 32-bit RISC (33.9MHz)
RAM: 2MB, 1MB Video RAM
Graphics: 3D Geometry Engine, with 2D rotation, scaling, transparency and fading and 3D texture mapping and shading
Colors: 16.7 million
Polygons: 360,000 per second
Sound: 16-bit 24 channel PCM
Playstation 2 Specs
CPU: 128 Bit "Emotion Engine"
System Clock: 300 MHz
System Memory: 32 MB Direct Rambus
Memory Bus Bandwidth: 3.2 GB per second
Co-Processor: FPU (Floating Point Multiply Accumulator x 1, Floating Point Divider x 1)
Vector Units: VU0 and VU1 (Floating Point Multiply Accumulator x 9, Floating Point Divider x 1)
Floating Point Performance: 6.2 GFLOPS
Compressed Image Decoder: MPEG2
Clock Frequency: 150MHz
DRAM Bus bandwidth: 48 GB Per Second
DRAM Bus width: 2560 bits
Pixel Configuration: RGB:Alpha:Z Buffer (24:8:32)
Maximum Polygon Rate: 75 Million Polygons Per Second
3D CG Geometric Transformation: 66 million Polygons Per Second
Number of voices: ADPCM: 48 channel on SPU2 plus definable by software
Sampling Frequency: 44.1 KHz or 48 KHz (selectable)
CPU Core: Current PlayStation CPU
Clock Frequency: 33.8 MHz or 37.5 MHz (selectable)
Sub Bus: 32 Bit
Interface Types: IEEE1394, Universal Serial Bus (USB)
Communication: via PC-Card PCMCIA
Disc Media: DVD-ROM (CD-ROM compatible)
CPU: 733 MHz chip crafted by Intel
Graphics Processor: 250MHz custom chip named XGPU, developed by Microsoft and nVIDIA
Total Memory: The RAM in the Xbox will be supplied by Micron, it will be 64 MB running at 200MHz DDR (Double-Data-Rate)
Memory Bandwidth: 6.4 GB/sec
Polygon Performance: 125 M/sec
Sustained Polygon Performance: 100+ M/sec (transformed and lit polygons per second)
Micropolygons/particles per second: 125 M/sec
Particle Performance: 125 M/sec
Simultaneous Textures: 4
Pixel Fill Rate - No Texture: 4.0 G/Sec (anti-aliased)
Pixel Fill Rate - 1 Texture: 4.0 G/Sec (anti-aliased)
Compressed Textures: Yes (6:1)
Full Scene Anti-Alias: Yes
Micro Polygon Support: Yes
Storage Medium: 2-5x DVD, 10GB hard disk, 8MB memory card
I/0: 2-5x DVD, 10GB hard disk, 8MB memory card
Audio Channels:64 (up to 256 stereo voices)
3D Audio Support: Yes
MIDI DLS2 Support: Yes
AC3 Encoded Game Audio: Yes
Broadband Enabled: Yes
Modem Enabled: No
DVD Movie Playback: Remote control package required
Maximum Resolution: 1920x1080
Maximum Resolution (2x32bpp frame buffers +Z): 1920x1080
HDTV Support: Yes
Controller Ports: 4 USB Ports
There we have it. The kind of crap emulator writers have hanging around.. My 600MHz PC struggles with emulating a ps1.. 512 ram helps a lot, but some games still suffer. I can't hope to emulate anything higher with it, but I have messed with certain aspects of emulation of a few parts of the xbox chipset just for fun, and because I like to tinker.
The real killer with the ps2 is the 128 bit cpu. Maybe as stated the 360, or more likely the first gen of the 64 bit duals may get there.
A used ps2 near me costs £40, and a dodgy one can be had for less than £20, but will need £800+ to emulate. There are literally millions of ps1 consoles out there for £5 in yardsales and the like.. Why emulate when games are next to free,(no piracy needed) and the hardware lasts forever?
You know, it's really easy to make a post like that. Going to gaming/shopping websites, copy-paste the information. It makes a great copy machine. And it boosts your post count without requiring any real intelligence or understanding to boot. Bravo, bravo.
The problem is you just put your foot in your mouth along with it.
Seriously, before going any further, you really need to leash that. People are going to smack you around for that kind of talk. You obviously have no flipping clue about the people you are insulting. And now, because it's due, I'm going to repeat that:
[Bold]You obviously have no flipping clue about the people you are insulting.[/Bold]
See! I even put it in bold, to help you remember that!
Here's the thing, my odious little threadmate; these programmers are doing this on top of real jobs, as in the 'real world'. I don't mean MTV, although I suspect from the overall attitude of your post. Most of the good programmers work god-awful hours, sometimes more than 14 hour days. In between which they have to find time to sleep stay healthy enough to resist heart attacks, and try to maintain the imagination of a personal life. On top of that, these people are tinkering around with something completely different in their spare time, which they share with others as a hobby. By making it publicly available, there is hope that people like them might also be able to sqeeze an occasional hour or two into these programs and their drivers, etc.
To be quite frank; we, the majority of end-users, are excruciatingly lucky that they share with all of us, rather than only those who contribute. They get *nothing* from us, save the occasional user who donates a couple dollars via paypal, which adds up to about one person's meal at Denny's each month... If they're lucky enough to be a well known emulator such as UltraHle, ZSnes, etc.
In other words; most of these people lead lives that we could not, already brimming over what is considered the 'normal' work capacity, they spend their free time working on projects that are very difficult(I'll explain below) in their spare time for a fun challenge, with next to nothing in return; and you're going to insult their progress? Sounds to me like someone seriously needs to reconsider their standpoint.
You clearly have no idea what this kind of programming entails. On the most basic level, they are using one processor (YOUR COMPUTER) which is already running windows(Or linux, whathaveyou) as well as any other background drivers, etc.; to process the original bios instruction set of an entirely different processor which bears no command similarities to the kind used in our computers. After understanding the basic compiled code sets, the emulator has to understand not only what it is, but what to do with it. How it is sent to the different hardware parts, the sound card, the video processor, etc. Once this is accounted; a sound/video/etc thread has to be set up seperately, that runs in conjunction with the base emulator thread, in as close to perfect sync as possible. Sometimes, in cases like most of our PS1 emulators, those are created by seperate programmers, since systems like the PS1 on utilize a vast number of graphical methods to render the images you so under-appreciate.
Moreover, it should be understood that the average computer or console game is worked on by at LEAST 30(Sometimes a couple hundred) programmers for hundreds and many times thousands of hours. Now, some of that is art work, engine, physics, etc. But a majority of that is raw code. Whenever a new DirectX comes out, unfathomable hours have come from numerous sources in order to compile what the industry will do next. They then offer it up with what can be very simply equivilated to an 'instruction manual' which, in depth, would be larger than both testaments of a large print bible.
Now, imagine that you could get that kind of software tool for graphics, all to yourself. But... No instruction manual. That entire, bible-thick explanation of the tool is gone. And instead of programming with it, you want to create a program that actually interprets it from the basic level, and then translates it and recompiles it into another language altogether, on-the-fly, without a hitch or crash for the end-user. That's just the graphics end, although the basic processer end is roughly the same mess. Now, imagine doing that in your free time between back to back 8-14 hour days.
Now, put yourself in that place, and honestly try to tell yourself that the person who said something like:
Now try and tell yourself that that statement of yours wasn't completely ignorant. Try to tell yourself that it was a justified statement. And try to understand what you criticize before you do so.
I can tell you simply attached yourself to this post, because a debate had already been won; and you wanted to feel like you were on the winning side, so you copied and pasted system specifications into this thread with a smidge of your uninformed opinion of emulation.
Your final paragraph makes it even more clear that you really are completely out of place in your post:
That's great! Except that no one asked about how to emulate a PS1. The only mention of a PS1 was in comparing it's speed to the required hardware to emulate it.
When you actually take those numbers, all that information, make sense of it, can explain it inside out. And can really comprehend not only what it is, but also why it is, then you'll be able to make a post that looks smart. Until then, your posts make you look as good as a xerox machine with a bad sense of brightness... Set all the way to Dim.
I don't think there should be a war between smart long-posting senior members here. It wouldn't work out very good.
I was going to post something but then it's just so bloody obvious that it's pointless to argue.
I did just paste the specs, because I happen to have them saved as text files. I thought in the context of the thread some people (obviously not you Mr Knowall) might find a direct comparison of the hardware interesting, and my thoughts on when and how a good ps2 emulator might be a practical proposition.
Do YOU know any emulator writers? Like I said.. I tinker with some parts, emulating specific functions and trying bits of code. I regularly talk with people who do the hard work of putting together the full software packages.
Anyway..like I said, you really aren't worth the f*cking effort!!
I only decided to come back to this horrible site because I was asked to.
Point for Jan!!!
No but seriously two Senior Members one who which is my friend...shoul not argue and Handsom....she was just telling the specs wasn.t tryin to insult anyone...so lets just blow past this and lets have a good day =D (group hug)!
If I wasn't worth the effort, you wouldn't have bothered. And you obviously aren't that miserable here if you keep posting.
Reposting the specs was honestly pointless, but whatever. There's nothing wrong with it. I at least see your reason for posting it now. I was honestly waiting to hear a response I'm all too used to: "I didn't copy that, I know it!" lol. Major props for replying with much more intelligence. Seriously.
Do I know any current emulator writers? No. I honestly stopped following a lot of it, towards the end of UltraHle's era. However, I kept up regularly on these, as well as something very simple... Reading the dev's blogs. You don't have to be personal friends with somebody to understand what their life is like, when so many of them put their own personal blogs out in the open. I am referring to some of the members from UltraHle and ePSXe, as well as ZSnes(Days of old); as coders desperately attempted to explain the same process to people who sound as mature as your previous post did. It doesn't take rocket science or personal friendship, it only takes literacy in these cases.
But some people take more time complaining than understanding, and that will always be the truth.
I'm going to be completely honest, this sentence, it makes no logical sense. But I'm going to explain why, and from the sound of your post, you did have a valid point there I'm sure. (No sarcasm, it sounds like you were trying to make a valid point.) The reason it makes no sense to me, is as follows. No current emulator(Save a few VERY old system emulators, and two early but short-lived PSX emulators) works without plugins. So, the developer of the emu simply writes a compiler(I hate putting the word 'simply' and 'compiler' into there, I really do. It's so much more than that, but I want this conversation to be understandable later on, lol.) The compiler creates output and (In the case of controls) sometimes input. The out(/in)put is always put out of the main program the same way; then fed to the plugins, for graphics sound, and controls. However, I don't know of any of these programmers who do the base code for the emulator AND the plugins. It seems to me from your sentence that that is what you're speaking of, and as far as I know it doesn't really exist save one or two rare occurences(I recall hearing tell of one or two, but it was some time ago, when I kept up on specific emulators more.) Either you are referring to someone who does that, or your sentence refers to the guy who takes the emulator, and the plugins, and then puts them into a zipfile. I am certain, in all seriousness, that you are not referring to this, I can tell by your more recent post, that you are much more intelligent than that. So I really would like clarification, as it sounds like you really have something.
Anywho, xxteakxx made a good point himself, and I'll stick to it. I'm sorry for insulting you janrocks; I am however, interested in continuing this discussion, because your more recent post has genuinely taken a much more interesting tone.
I seem to have become very cynical as of late, I'll have to keep a leash on myself for the time being. I've just become so accustomed to seeing people under-appreciate and misunderstand the things they criticize on here; it's gotten somewhat old in that sense. But that gives me no excuse for jumping on you like that.
Kudos, and I look forward to more info!
Two things recently came out while I was responding.
-Janrocks was NOT trying to insult anyone(Assumably the developers as well)
-And Janrocks is actually a female. Not to be any kind of sexist, but I would honestly like to pass along extra kudos for being one of the few I know of to break through the industry stereotypes that make for so few women in the computer field(Compared to men, who seem to dominate the industry). I honestly think that woman are just as smart (And in many cases smarter) but either don't give themselves enough credit in this area, or let the stereotypical male geek idea drive them away. More kudos on that!
Thank you, xBMODSx, for the update, as I do not personally know janrocks; and that helps a lot.
to late as you just got a month ban for that stupid stunt. do it again & will be permanent!!
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