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SONY LCD VS. SONT WEGA SXRD

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by mikej3131, Feb 7, 2006.

  1. steimy

    steimy Active member

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    "Now, I want everyone to understand that Fixed pixel displays have native resolutions, such as 1366x768 and 1920x1080... ect. Your set will upconvert or downconvert everything it gets to this resolution."

    What is a Fixed Pixel Display?
    Not familiar with that term, i just want to make sure that buying an HDMI cable would be the right move for me. I just dred re-routing all of the stuff i have hooked up again so that they all play nice together. the only one that really concerns me is the DVD burner. The wires hook directly from the satalite box to it so that after recording on Tivo i can transfer to DVD. If i switch to the HDMI i will have to find another way to make that work.
    I have a Samsung DLP TV
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2006
  2. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    WikiPeida (FPD):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_pixel_display

    AKA: Fixed Resolution Display (FRD)

    Basicly means that the tv only supports one resolution because of its fixed number of pixels. Everything must be scaled to fit that Fixed Resolution also know as its "Native Resolution." The only technology that isn't a fixed pixel display is the CRT!

    -----

    As far as wiring, using HDMI is simpler and your DVD recorder connections will not change at all! Every HD box has Composite video and/or S-Video outputs that are "always on" so that recording devices can record shows without a problem. The Composite and S-Video connections are restricted to 480i output (including HD matirial)!

    Ced
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2006
  3. mikej3131

    mikej3131 Regular member

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    OK THANKS DIABOLOS,

    Understood everything correctly but just one question about the fixed resolution of 1080 with the sxrd tv. So if a shwo broadcasts in 720p and i have the 1080 tv, it would have to scale it to upconvert or downconvert? That means stretching the image right? and wouldnt that look bad when it is stretched?

    Also you said the component cables are capable of 1080. So since both hdmi and component cablkes are capable of the same 1080, would the only advantage of hdmi be less wires?
     
  4. steimy

    steimy Active member

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    Thanks diabolos
    i plan on getting all my components upgraded. The Tivo and TV to HDMI connections, all the rest to S-Video/Analog audio cables
    Thanks also for the hint on Acoustic Reasearch. i found a site
    http://www.ambientweather.com/acre.html
    that has some really great prices compared to what i have seen at stores. I am planning on these 2 for all my needs.
    Acoustic Research AP-065 Performance Series S-Video/Stereo RCA Cable
    for all my components
    Acoustic Research PR-185 Pro II Series HDMI Digital AV Interconnect
    for the Tivo to TV connection
     
  5. BigMike2

    BigMike2 Member

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    I've been looking at HD TVs and the Samsung was my choice until I compared that and the Sony sxrd at CC side by side. Actually I looking at the Samsung 1080p vs the Sony. The Sony blew it away! Go with the Sony.

    Mike
     
  6. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    Yes. It will "Upconvert" from 720p (1280x720 progressive) to 1080p (1920x1080 progressive).

    No it means scaling the image, there is a differnce. Streching is more like a digital zoom.

    This leads me to my next topic...

    Scaling is the most important function preformed by an HDTV. If the chips that do the scaling are crappy then the tv will look like crap un-less it is recieving a signal that matches its native resolution.

    The best scaler in the world:
    http://www.meridian-audio.com/faroudja/technology.html

    HDMI is superiour to Component Video because it is an all digital connection. When analog connections are used with digital equipment some quality is lost because the source must convert a digital signal to analog for transmition. Then the TV must change that analog signal back into digital data. After all of that it must also scale the image if it doesn't fit the native res requirements.

    All that proccessing is bad. With HDMI and DVI the video doesn't have to undergo any conversions (except maybe scaling).

    About Scaling:
    http://www.theprojectorpros.com/learn.php?p=theater_scalers

    Ced
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2006
  7. mikej3131

    mikej3131 Regular member

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    I see, interesting diabolos.

    So what about the sxrd scaling? do you know if the scaling on that tv is any good?
     
  8. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    Its excellent at Scaling! It scales everything to 1080p (1920x1080 progressive). At the $5,000 price mark the scaling and video proccessing chips are decent across the board (at least for rear-projection tvs). For plasma screens expect to pay close to $10,000 for excellent scaling above 50".

    -----

    @ steimy

    Awsome! Let me know if you need any more assistance!

    Acoustic Research (interconnect page):
    http://www.araccessories.com/Cultur...ton - Acoustic Research;Premium Interconnects

    Ced
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2006
  9. mikej3131

    mikej3131 Regular member

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    Actually you've been excellent assistance, thanks.

    So i take it that sxrd at the $3000 mark is a good deal considering youre thoughts on how decent scaling usually comes with the $5000 mark
     
  10. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    Yes, indeed! I was referring to the MSRP for the 60" which is $4,999

    Ced
     
  11. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    Upconversion DVD players 101...

    Now that I have explained Scaling & HDMI I hope it is easier to see why upconversion DVD players are better than regular DVD players. But they have limits.

    Upconversion DVD players take standard DVD signals (480i) and first makes them progressive (480p) then scales the image to fit the screens "Native Resolution".

    Using the HDMI or DVI port on the player is always the best choice.

    But they have limits...

    Of course, the Upconversion DVD player is only as good as the chips that do the scaling! If a TV has better scalling than the unconversion DVD player there won't be a gain in quality from owning one. [bold]Unconversion DVD players are for people that want cheap HD fixed pixel displays[/bold] (LCD, DLP, Plasma, LCoS, SED, OLED) but want there DVD collection to look great.

    An upconversion DVD player DOES NOT ADD RESOLUTION! It simply scales the picture and offers an all digital connection for transmittion.


    Upconversion DVD players:

    (Me)
    http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/283440

    (Upconversion in general)
    http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/hd-upconverter.htm


    Ced
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2006
  12. got_boost

    got_boost Guest

    alright, i work at best buy and have been full time in home theatre for over 4 years, the sxrd has an amazing picture and it scans to it's native resolution...it doesn't do true 1080p....if anyone doubts me, call sony urself, i'm friends with a sony rep!!!!!
     
  13. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    Calm down, I work at best buy too... That has already been said about the SXRD. And yes it can display true 1080p, meaning that it can display 1920x1080 pixels progessively, but it can't except a true 1080p signal over HDMI. Although, it is rumored that the SXRD can except 1080p via its firewire/iLink inputs. If you could confirm that for me got_boost it would be greatly appreciated, thankz.

    Other non LCoS based sets that boost a 1920x1080 resolution like Mitsubishi's, Samsung's, and HP's DLP based sets use "Wobulation" to create the effect of 1080p (the chips only have 960x1,080 pixels). Most agree that Wobulation can fully distinguish a 1080i video frame but falls short of 1080p.


    Wobulation:

    (WikiPedia)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobulation

    Diagram (S&V)
    http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=861&page_number=3


    Bring on SED!
    Ced
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2006
  14. jpc1958

    jpc1958 Guest

    Let me throw a monkey wrench into the discussion here...

    The product: Samsung's new 46-incher, the LNR460D, is the first LCD flat-screen HDTV to incorporate LED (light-emitting diode) backlight technology, which according to the company, offers better color reproduction and a longer lifespan than current LCD units. Thse TVs have a projected lifespan of 20k hours, not the typical 3K or 4K hours of lamp life. They are also better at the deeper reds in the color spectrum... I saw one at the CES show in Veagas this past january... EXTREMELY IMPRESSIVE. All this from a Sony TV fan too! I have seen the Sony SXRD next to the Smamsung. The Samsung is better at standaed definition TV. My personal opinion - The Sony has a poorer SDTV picture. (IMHO)

    Joe
     
  15. jpc1958

    jpc1958 Guest

    Hey diablos, the reason TVs can't accept 1080p inputs directly is because the industry has not workrd out all the copy flag protection, etc for that rate over HDMI. It's just that simple. Pure greed...
    One they agree on / work out copy protection for that rate over HDMI, then toy'll see that as a valid input to HDTV gear. Currently the only TVs capable of this is the Mitsubishi line that records to a hard drive and can display 1080p.

    Joe
     
  16. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    How do you explan HPs MD6580n? It supports 1080p through HDMI. And I don't believe copy flags are the reason most sets don't except 1080p signals. I think the implementation is just expensive. HP has to be losing money.

    HP:
    http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/s...nel_tvs&subcat1=mdtv&catLevel=3#defaultAnchor



    HDMI.org on HDMI doing 1080p@60fps

    HDMI Faq:
    http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/faq.asp#hdmi_specification#hdmi_specification


    Do you know if the other sets including the SXRD can recieve 1080p signals via Firewire?

    -----

    Intresting... Sony's Qualia 005 makes a similar claim. Since Samsung produces Sony's LCD panels I will bet that the technologies are very similar.

    Ced
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2006
  17. jpc1958

    jpc1958 Guest

    Ced,

    I stand corrected. In 2005 Intel, developed a new copy protection scheme, HDCD (HDCP is a content protection technology available for use in connection with HDMI that was developed by Intel Corporation (with input from Silicon Image). HDCP is not licensed by HDMI Licensing, LLC, but by Digital Content Protection, LLC (a subsidiary of Intel).

    This is what allows HDMI 1080p. That's why you are just now seeing 1080p sources come into the marketplace. It costs a manufacturer US $15K per year to license the technology, and a per-unit fee of 1/2 us cent to 15 cents per unit produced to sell the product.

    So now, the protection is in there and the money gets to change hands so big corporations get their cut...

    http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/faq.asp

    Joe
     
  18. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    Cool. I already knew about HDCP, I try to mention it as much as possible. HDCP as been around for a while now which is the main reason the broadcast flag idea was voted down by the DC Circuit of the US Court of Appeals last year. The whole idea was rediculess if you ask me. HDCP is much simpler and doesn't cause as much of a head ache for consumers.

    But I realy want to know if 1080p@24 fps and @60 fps can be transmitted via firewire. Also, I would like to confirm that the SXRD can receive 1080p via firewire/i.Link.

    As far as HDCP it was worked into HDMI 1.1 which did cause some playback problems with older HDMI 1.0 equipment. DVI-D also supports HDCP. When you mentioned broadcast flags I though you where crazy...lol!

    HDCP:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP

    Thankz for the conformation,
    Ced
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2006
  19. mikej3131

    mikej3131 Regular member

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    Hey guys,

    Not to to smart with all the technical stuff you guys are talking about here. But if i read between the lines correctly, the sxrd i originally posted about on my first post is getting downgraded by you now? And these other tv's mentioned are a better bet if im looking for one?

    Correct me if im wrong?
     
  20. diabolos

    diabolos Guest

    No, the SXRD is still Kick ASS! Its short comings as far as not having a 1080p input is shared with just about every set out there except the HPs and a couple of the Mitsubishis.

    It has two HDCP compatible HDMI ports.

    What made you think the we where bashing the SXRD?

    Ced
     

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